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[DE]Rebecca

Warframe Ability Changes

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While I agree that being invulnerable constantly is an issue (and a rather large one for that frame, since Blessing is almost universally used for preventing all damage instead of actually healing) I feel nerfing it in terms of taking away/reducing that invulnerability, in any respect, is only treating the symptom of a larger problem; mainly that Trinity is essentially ONLY ever used for Blessing's invulnerability, it's healing being only a secondary bonus to the skill, and most people build her entirely around increasing the duration of said invulnerability with little consideration for anything else.

 

so the problem is constant invulnerability but they should fix it in a way that doesn't take away constant invulnerability?

 

 

Personally, I'm irked because this is the second time this frame has received a nerf like this. The first time being her Link ability getting a similar rework as this upcoming one that made it so that Link became a REDUCTION in taken damage when the skill is used instead of having it be an overall damage AVOIDANCE (in the case of Link, it was 100% damage reflection to a single nearby enemy, that would link to other enemies as they died until the skill ran out) like it used to be

wasn't that cheap invulnerability too?

 

if any frame needs some sort of god mode to be playable it has to be flawed by design.

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I am loving that volt buff, any word on just how much bigger it's going to be?

 

EDIT: I'm sure someone has said it, but if you guys want Trinity's ult to be reactive, it has to be an instant cast.

Edited by animaCartographer

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Hmm, I honestly didn't expect that Blessing change. Kudo to whoever thought of that. You can still heal and DR has direct benefit from it. Look like Globe change, a little bit. Energy vampire looked like a good buff to me.

 

Problem is that how DR will be calculated? Will it be independent for each member of the team or based on Trin's?

 

The rest of them sounds good, looking forward to much improved Ash. 

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YES LOVE THE ASH CHANGES!!!!!!

 

Kage Bunshin No Jutsu.

 

Believe it!

 

Now you too can live out your Naruto fantasies. Now all he needs is a Hokage helmet.

you just made my day. :'D

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Feedback:

 

Trinity

Blessing: Trinity's changes will definitely make Blessing more tactical. I can't help but think that with Link the way it is, it's replacing one potential OP setup for another though.

 

Ash

Shuriken : Sounds like a really nice change.. I would have rather seen a CC proc as opposed to a damage proc. But anything is better than nothing when it comes to a #1.

Teleport: While the change sounds nice.. The closed targeting nature of the skill along with lackluster damage on finisher attacks makes this seem not that great to me. I can't help but think that Teleport and Smokescreen should have been folded into one skill (similar to Zephyr's Tailwind) and a brand new skill added in its' place. I see the existence of Teleport on the skill bar as being the problem for Ash. That spot should really be for a meaningful utility skill.

His name is Ash, he should have a skill that blinds and/or one that makes the enemy choke.

Another Idea for Teleport would be to set it to open targeting and and let is set an AOE Blind/ Stagger/Incapacitate where he lands.

Bladestorm: While a Shadow Clone Jutsu is nice, I'd be curious about how this will effect his Invulnerability period. The way the changes are described suck all of the cool factor out of the skill to me.

 

Banshee, Volt , and Nyx 

All of their changes sound great.

I only wonder why Volt and Nyx got looks while Oberon, who needs the attention, waits in the wings.

 

Are there any changes incoming for Frost ?

Edited by Padre_Akais
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Oh boy. I don't see why Nova should be nerfed now. She is balanced for the current content.
Mark my words , the nerf will happen and everyone will complain for her to get buffed again.

Oh well , guess it's going to be a few updates playing without her. She will be missed. :<

9371451193_11fa270819_o.gif

Edited by Neo_182
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Would be better if Ash's Blade Storm paralyzed the enemy rather than bleed them. Gives it more utility. Would allow for an amazing duration based build.

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Well from reading this and thinking on it for a bit here are my thoughts:

 

Trinity: The blessing nerf seems a little extreme, it would have been better to have a % base of damage blocked completely (like 50-75% for X seconds) rather then based off of the health healed, with the long cast and people trying to wait for the best time to cast blessing will end up with a lot of people going down. Unless they add in the ability for blessing to pick up people if they are bleeding out I see a lot less people using Trinity now and there aren't a lot of people who use her in the first place. I never really cared that much for energy vampire. Why should one frame be limited on their use of their fourth ability when any other frame can use it with little to no drawbacks?

 

Banshee: Silence will and always be useless without a better stealth mechanic, fix that first before silence. The sound quake change seems interesting, I will have to see it in use before saying good or bad.

 

Nyx: Good change, might get more people playing her, she is a lot of fun.

 

Volt: The electric shield size increase was way overdue, but electric damage overall needs a buff, he does not hold up to his title of being a "high damage frame".

 

Hydroid: I thought you could just walk out of it?

 

Ash: I love you. Now just make smokescreen a team stealth, teleport not require a target and he will be everything I want.

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From what I read on Ash's Blade Storm rework, with clones, it sounds very cool. How it is executed of course, is the question. Will your clones basically speed up the ult, as in Ash being so fast he can be "in multiple places at once", or does he actually spawn clones? I like the idea that he moves so fast that enemies and allies see him in multiple places at once, killing so fast it appears there are multiple Ashe's. I think this could be even cooler with multiple Ash warframes in a party, in a survival mission. Man all the Ashe warframes, but anyways.

 

How would the camera work? Right now it's so spazzy that it gives me a headache. Could the camera get more of an omnicient point of view, seing multiple executions at once? Or even perhaps a zoomed out perspective? I think the camera rework will affect how popular this rework is, because the current camera implementation is really over the top and hard to enjoy.

 

Hopefully Nova doesn't get rework-nerfed into the floor. Her ult has some awesome utility and damage, and I wouldn't mind if they nerfed either the damage or the slowing/armor reducing crowd control. I just hope that both aspects aren't nerfed, because then it becomes a weak skill instead of a balanced rework.

 

As for the toggle skills, that seems very interesting. Perhaps power duration mods reduces the amount of energy tick per second, or perhaps increases the time between energy cost ticks, which would make sense with "duration" mods. I'll have to play with it when it gets released.

 

As for Trinity, well, I really like the energy vampire rework. Too often I would cast it and have to wait for it to be done to cash in on the energy. Perhaps the casting speed can be increased, so that I can use it a lot without taking a whole second to cast it on an enemy. Even more interesting would be to have it radiate damage based on the energy remaining, to encourage swiftly killing energy-infused targets, and giving Trinity a semi-offensive power. As for her ult, that seems balanced, but hopefully the crowd-control immunity remains. Reducing 90% damage doesn't matter if you just get magnetized by ancients or knocked down by Grineer Shield guys and MOAs.

 

Looking forward to the improvements/reworks coming into play. While I love new content, having the older content updated and revamped keeps this game exciting after playing for several hundred hours.

 

-tkdbackkick

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But yeah, please make the highest damage reduction from healing affect the whole team, rather than not helping teammates with full HP and only benefiting that wounded one.

This sounds reasonable to be honest, and should be applied. It will be hard enough to intentionally get a 90% damage reduction (thought that's a huge number), unless you have the right weapons to do it on yourself.

 

I'm also wondering if Blessing's immunity could be affected by Shields + Health in the calculations. That way, even when you're on the verge of losing all your shields, you will still get a certain damage reduction, instead of only counting the health loss.

 

This means that a Frost with 1000 Shields + 500 HP will get 50% immunity when they have 250 shields (if they have maxed health at that point). On the other hand, a Valkyr with 100 shields and 1000 health will get 50% immunity if she reaches 550 HP, after losing all her shields.

 

This way, players with different frames and survivability mods will still get a decent benefit from Blessing's damage immunity. This can be especially helpful because, in normal tier 3 circumstances, when someone reaches their health, they are very likely to take heavy damage or simply die from a huge firefight. Therefore, by default, you would try to time your Blessing as they lose their shields to recover some health, giving a slight immunity, and healing them in the process.

 

However, what if I try to time it like that, my timing's completely perfect, but suddenly their shields are replenished because of their sentinel's Guardian ability? I would have wasted energy and given 0% immunity for a long duration (if I built my Trin with duration mods). If it counted shields as well, at least I know I can activate Blessing when their shields are semi-low to give a decent immunity and refill their shields.

Edited by Casardis
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Honestly the only nerf Nova should get is a range nerf on MPrime. That would probably be enough.

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Thank you DE for the Ash changes.  Ash was the first warframe i built over a year ago and am glad to see him getting  love.

 

One question though. Will all the clones in blade storm add to the combo counter like it does atm?  If so :) 

 

I just forma'd him to hahaha

Edited by FrostBittenHero

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-Teleport: Enemies are now open to finishers when teleported to, giving it more aggressive utility in order to make Teleport more appealing for use in combat.

What about the way we teleport to enemies?

The crosshair is soooooo specific to teleport to them, like I have to stop and take out my gun, aim down the sites....just to teleport to them..

 

The whole reticule is a lot larger than the space that's open to you on teleporting. It's dumb having to have the enemy be right on the 1 pixel that's dead center in your screen.

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Some recommendations that would go hand-in-hand with these:

 

- Mind Controlled targets also suppress all damage from Tenno, then instantly receive the accumulated Tenno damage once the effect ends (a la Hysteria, or an inverse Absorb effect; they still receive damage from enemies normally).

 

- Sonar cannot target invulnerable/heavily-armored areas on an affected enemy.

 

- Teleport can also be initiated without a living target, allowing the player to move as close to the targeted surface as their Power Range will allow. Alternately, casting Teleport without a target will move the player to the nearest target to the location indicated via their reticule.

 

- Electric Shield's can also be picked up by players like a datamass, causing it to hover over their targeting reticule for the remainder of its duration (providing direct synergy with Speed).

--> For this one, I recommend actually reducing its size and visual distortion, at least while being carried.

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First of all Let me say that the proposed changes to trinity disappoint and enrage me . this change will break most if not all high level content ,and i feel that most of the people in support of the changes have never been in the long hall  T3 run before. however i will acknowledge that blessing is OverPowered in a perma invulnerability Build but it takes investment of time and or money to get the mods to pull it off. So i will propose a idea that i have been toying with.

 

Well Of Life

Current from wiki.  Create a well of life on an enemy. Allies will gain health when damaging the target.

Mine.                    Buff ailes in x range granting life steal. (.25/.5/.75/1%)

 

Energy Vampire

Current from wiki.  The marked target radiates 4 energy pulses for the duration of the skill, restoring 10 / 15 / 20 /                                          25 energy for every warframe in range. For each energy pulse, the target is dealt 6.25% of its                                            remaining hit points.

Mine.                    no change new one will work out.

 

Link

Current from wiki. Reduces damage done to Trinity by 50% / 60% / 70% / 75% and reflects 100% of any incoming                                        damage (full, not what you actually get) to a maximum of 1 / 2 / 2 / 3 simultaneous linked targets.

Mine.                    Change Maximum Targets to 1/2/3/4. and Make it a toggle ability.

 

Blessing

Current from wiki.  Regenerates every player and their Sentinels and grants them invincibility for 3 / 5 / 7 / 10 seconds.

Mine.                     First make it a Toggle ability. next have it regen shields and health at a fixed rate while granting                                       reducing incoming damage.

 

 

i dont think that my ideas are the best but still if you do this DE it will ruin trinity for me and a lot of other players.

Disclaimer i'm tired and hungry when i wrote this so. add lib 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SaviorOfFallen
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Trinity Blessing sounds like a lazy way of a fix. With the cast time long as hell, and the enemies still 1 hit you at higher level even if you have 1k shield and 1k HP, Blessing is so useless now. What you guys did to Blessing is to remove it from endgame play, and make it only viable at low level planets. At least make it so if you're at 100% health, you won't get any invulnerability, however you would get % of max health recover for X duration, so it won't be use only at clutch time. 

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i suggest number of clones(shadow clones :D) increase when ranking the blade storm mod. oh and can it get an animation change at the start :D like ash doing the jutsu sign for the multi shadow clone jutsu from naruto (or something similar?) it would be better then just standing there or running then suddenly going buck wild...... please? :D would be cool!

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Edited my first post...
please take a look at it and PM me your thoughts, I hope I'm not the only one, that thinks these upcoming changes should be double checked. >.<

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so the problem is constant invulnerability but they should fix it in a way that doesn't take away constant invulnerability?

 

 

wasn't that cheap invulnerability too?

 

if any frame needs some sort of god mode to be playable it has to be flawed by design.

 

Trinity IS flawed by design, which is a vast majority of her problem. The biggest issue she has, and has ever had, is that people only use her Invulnerability skills because they're really the most useful.

 

Energy Vampire and Well of Life end up next to or completely useless due to the fact that marked enemies end up dead long before the skills can give a decent effect to players, and also have a limited range even when in use. Why, for example, would anyone bother to use Well of Life when the marked enemy dies too quickly to really heal nearby allies, and you can use Blessing to both fully heal the team and get Invulnerability at the same time? Blessing is far more reliable, and does more to boot. Energy Vampire has a similar issue, where the return on invested energy is so little that it's not really utilizable, even on many bosses.

 

Link was nerfed because it was overpowered, making the caster basically Immortal for the skill's duration. Now, I will admit, it's much more balanced, but with no chance for Trinity, a slow frame by nature, to protect herself from things like Toxic Ancient's gas clouds, it's utility isn't as great as it once was.

 

The issue is, and still remains, that Blessing is almost never used to Heal. It's main function ends up being an Immortality spam skill, which wasn't it's intended purpose, and it IS broken.

 

HOWEVER, my main complaint is that these issues have never actually been addressed or fixed. Trinity has never been given any real utility ASIDE from her immortality skills, which have been and continue to be nerfed. For DE to simply keep cutting down on what she DOES have that works, and not give her anything else to work with to support a team, they're making her far more useless at what she is termed to be, a SUPPORT frame.

 

So no, I am not whining about there no longer going to be a "God-Mode" button, I'm simply stating that the fact remains that it's the only true utility Trinity currently has (she can't tank, she's not fast so she can't get out of the way like most other squishy frames that at least have some decent mobility, and she has NO crowd-control capabilities), and that unless DE does something to offset the broken utility she's had for over a year that they're taking away, they are only band-aid solving the problem.

Edited by Jeahanne
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I personally really dig the sounds of these changes, especially the Trinity one.  If you're at a point where you can be one shotted by foes you can't expect to just be easily viable with minimal effort.

 

Realistically speaking, I'm still seeing a huge way in which Trinity could still become nigh invulnerable personally in all but the most extreme situations if she utilizes Blessing purely selfishly.  With a team made up of players all on the same "wavelength" you could get fairly close to becoming brokenly strong, but it would require a lot of teamwork and sticking together.  Oddly I'm seeing Napalms and other AoE enemies now as a total boon as they can damage the whole team a lot simultaneously.

 

Ash is a frame that I continually think of revisiting, but always decide that it would be a waste of time.  Granted I still don't think he fits my style, the proposed changes do make me think that higher.

 

The rest just seem full on positive.

Edited by Bobtm0

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DELICIOUS!

 

I expected a Psychic Bolts change though.

 

That power is so... meh. Bolts hit enemies with a 50% chance, very low damage, bolts fly slower compared to the other frames first abilities and it costs 50 energy to cast after all that! D:

It's a Tier 2 power, you should consider it.

 

My favourite frame needs some more love! D:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I am not sure if the current changes for Blessing is a particularly good idea. When playing alone or in duos, it's very manageable, but when playing in squads of 4, chances are, all 4 players will have different health levels (especially in PUG, where players tend to run off on their own). This creates an awkward situation where players that are more careful in avoiding damage or crowd control don't get any benefit from Trinity casting its skill for another player.

 

From a supportive standpoint, this makes Trinity very hard to play properly, because Trinity players have relatively little control over her teammate's antics. And for what its worth, this is hardly a problem for Trinity herself because she can always fall back to Link's damage reduction (which while not god-mode, is still pretty substantial). What this ends up messing up are the 1-2 players in the team that actually plays well and avoid damage. While I agree that god-mode is OP and should be nerfed, I also think it's unfair for good players to be forced to sit through 20 minutes worth of blessing with absolutely no benefit. 

 

For these reasons, it might be prudent to make the damage resistance based on the AVERAGE percent health healed across all 4 players rather than their own individual selves. That way, Trinity still needs to be reactive to teammates losing health, but at least she doesn't have to screw over teammates meticulous enough to run on full health in the process.

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Trinity Blessing sounds like a lazy way of a fix. With the cast time long as hell, and the enemies still 1 hit you at higher level even if you have 1k shield and 1k HP, Blessing is so useless now. What you guys did to Blessing is to remove it from endgame play, and make it only viable at low level planets. At least make it so if you're at 100% health, you won't get any invulnerability, however you would get % of max health recover for X duration, so it won't be use only at clutch time. 

 

They aren't balancing around that level of gameplay on any frame. If they were, they would never have changes snowglobe / bastille.

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Banshee:

 

-Silence: Is now a radial ranged effect that moves with you. As enemies enter the radius/area, they experience a ‘sonic disturbance’ which they react to. This disturbance deafens the targets and affects their awareness.

 

-Sound Quake: Players can now control when to deactivate Sound Quake, with the option to toggle it on or off.  Sound Quake will consume energy per second while active.

 

Nyx:

 

-Absorb: Players can now toggle Absorb on or off.

 

Both toggling changes to Nyx and Banshee will give players more freedom instead of being locked in place while the rest of your team runs around.  It should also add a nice element of resource management to both Warframes, rather than being stuck in place at the cost of X energy.

 

 

i9ZKkOTR46ksU.gif

 

Thank you, You have no idea how frustrating it is to be stuck in the absorb bubble. I love playing as Nyx, she's one of the best balanced frames in the game, but the Absorb bubble fixed duration was frustrating. 

 

Ember:

 

A few questions, as there is a certain amount of uncertainty regarding her powers. WoF, is the damage mitigated by armour? Are her other powers unaffected by armour? There's conflicting info on the wiki. 

 

Some suggestions:

First I'm rarely in favour of giving any power straight damage buffs, I prefer adding utility and working within the existing power framework, no re working it entirely.

 

1) Speed, 

Please in the name of all that's holy increase her speed to 1.15/1.20. She's only got 740 shields with maxed redirection, paper thin armour, and only 300 hp. With an Ult. power which requires you to get close. Speed is key to keeping her alive, something which you can't do effectively without spamming accelerant for the stun. I noticed in Update 13 stagger from enemy fire is a lot more prevalent(when using the glaive prime), a good change, but causes issues for Ember's long activation time on WoF. 

 

2) Fire blast,

Please consider replacing the ring of fire, up the damage and keep it as a knock back/ blast power, akin to the current Fire leader blast, just not so huge, Ember needs some CC utility badly, just not too much. The current High proc is good, much like the heat sword AoE slam attack. Or keep the Ring of fire, but give a 100% proc chance to any enemy coming into contact with it, at higher lvls enemies simply walk through it at the moment.

 

3) Accelerant,

Lower the base damage buff (200% from 250% maybe) and increase the damage of all her abilities to compensate by the corresponding amount.

 

ie: (hypothetically) if WoF does 500 damage per hit, at 250% damage buff that brings it to 1,250. Changing WoF to 625 damage per hit and Accel to a 200% damage buff brings the DPS to 1,250. Exactly the same DPS lvl, it doesn't change the balance, just the necessity to spam accelerant at lvl 20 (it would also help WoF which needs some wrk.)

 

4) World on Fire (WoF)

Lvl 30 Ancients will simply barrel through this power, given the explosions affect targets individually, so some can just run through unaffected, while the proc chance is fairly low, so enemies not killed will simply down Ember or rush her (like infested). I like WoF as it stands, but, it's a DoT (damage over time) power yet can't do enough damage over time as it has no CC or further utility to hold enemies or stop them smacking Ember about given she needs to get close, while the base damage is too low to kill quickly enough.  

 

Without re doing the power completely (namely because I think it's good and not necessary) adding these should give it the needed CC and utility to keep it as a DoT power. (Much like Fireball, which is an excellent 1st power, WoF's damage ticks on the explosions should function in the same manner)

 

A) Slight AoE increase on each explosion with a 100% proc chance on direct hits (keeps the fire DoT theme and adds CC utility chance) 

B) 50% proc chance on AoE hits, you've got your instant CC mixed in without daft damage reduction skills which shouldn't be anywhere near a frame like Ember. Mimicking Fireball's 100% direct hit proc, with 50% proc on the AoE, and damage tick mechanics

(Oh and don't put back Overheat, Accelerant is great, but WoF needs some form of CC/ utility to let the Damage take effect. Effectively each blast replicates the mechanics of fireball, but on a much larger scale)

C) Damage increase as mentioned via the Accelerant buff percentage change. 

 

Currently her Damage over Time setup, doesn't fit with her inability to keep an enemy locked down long enough for the damage to take effect, the suggestions don't change any of the powers' mechanics, just adjusting the numbers within the coding all the parts to the powers already exist, just tweak the numbers on powers so adding some CC/ utility via guaranteed procs on WoF and stun/ knockdown on Fireblast, then she'll be good to go( please don't put back overheat, you guys made the right decision to strip it, you just have to add the damage and utility effects back into her powers to compensate for the huge 90% DR it gave, shortening the time for her powers to take effect properly, which wasn't an issue with overheat, but it is now) 

 

 

Frost:

 

Deep breath..... Please shift it to CC/ utility Cold procs with Freezing. Currently Avalanche, Freeze and Ice wave are mediocre damage powers. As opposed to Ember's high damage over time, with CC and utility to lock down units to cause damage, Frost shifting to lower damage but high CC/ utility.

 

Snow Globe

it's fine, nice job. 

 

 

Freeze.
Is okay, but really not good compared to other frames 1sts, a small AoE of 3m which cold procs targets in the splash range with a chance of 50% would push it up to Fireball, MC and Shock lvls of utility. The frozen target taking additional % damage from other weapons, powers etc. while frozen would be veeery nice too. Plus, they don't have to re do the visuals (similar to Fireball)
 
Ice Wave.
I'm really not sure what to do with that, I'd much prefer an AoE cone of 45 degrees rather than a straight line. The Cold proc is nice, but it seems a bit lacking. It's be nice if target's hit by it have a chance of being hit with puncture damage and ragdolled(or at least knocked back) as well as cold damage ( which is part of Ice wave's current visual) don't know how that'd be balanced, maybe a 40% split? At the moment it's rather bleurgh at anything past lvl 20. 
 
 
Avalanche. 
I really, really don't like the visuals, "snow balls dropping from the sky!" it's currently just another nuke power and a bad one, I think it'd be far better as a short DoT power, like a blizzard in the AoE, with 100% Cold proc and a 5 second freeze duration which causes an additional % damage from weapon's fire and other powers like Freeze, but on a much bigger scale.
 
So you get:
(original) 1000 base, over 3/4 seconds(hard capped duration) (can be affected by strength and range mods like now), which slows due to the cold proc.
100% proc chance
Anything still alive in the AoE after 3/4 seconds gets frozen for up to 5 seconds(, ie: it's just Avalanche's old Freeze effect back) and shots, attacks and powers cause an additional % of damage(balance as required). 
 
Most of the visual assets and coding are already there so it's possible to re use some of it, the coding of how the power function just needs to be changed from a AoE instant DPS to an AoE DoT power with CC and a % damage buff. The Freeze animation is already in place, it just has to be delayed by 3/4 seconds and the old bug put back in. The cold proc coding already exists. The only thing left would be the damage % while frozen. I've tried to work within the confines of the power as I did with Ember, but it was necessary to make some adjustments, similar to how you adjusted SG to use Frost's armour rating.

 

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tumblr_n1ev2n9bp81tqxxzeo1_250.gif

 

I always think of this when looking at Frost's powers. 

Edited by (PS4)billy-d-squid
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