holyicon Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 I do like the change. I should point out that the devs have said endless scaling defense and survival are not a concern as far as frame reworks go. So any discussion about a power not being effective at 60+ probably will fall on deaf ears. In fact you'll probably see true end game somewhere in the 50s. Mhm. It would be a kindness to localize "end game" that narrowly (level-wise). At least then the justification for Lv60+ content being all fluffy-fatal-scaled-like as the goalposts sway in the beta-breeze different for whatever frame is kicking that moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomFruit Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I do like the change. I should point out that the devs have said endless scaling defense and survival are not a concern as far as frame reworks go. So any discussion about a power not being effective at 60+ probably will fall on deaf ears. In fact you'll probably see true end game somewhere in the 50s. In that case, why are the endless scaling mechanics still in the game? Halt the endless scaling, *then* remove the tools we need to survive it. Do NOT do it the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)dday3six Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Wow... Glad I didn't Forma up Trin yet... Anyhow, really seems like DE missed the mark on Trin. IMO Blessing should just give a fixed amount of DR say 20-30% perhap less, which could not be increased, along with full heal, then instead of invincibility just health regen during the duration which could be increased. Same infinite range though. True it could still be spammed, but it will eventually be out paced. With that Will of Life could also be a power damage based single target shield and health restore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) A fixed DR will be great but I will play more with Trinity before commenting further. Ironically, this will be a team based overheat eh ? The current system will cap how far endless can go though. Because there is a huge difference in 1 shot dropping you to hp and 1 shot instant killing you. If it is instant death, blessing DR reduction will not work. Edited May 13, 2014 by fatpig84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 In that case, why are the endless scaling mechanics still in the game? Halt the endless scaling, *then* remove the tools we need to survive it. Do NOT do it the other way around. No weapons or gear has a drop locked beyond wave 20/20 minutes. The endless defense/survival is just there if you want to do it. Nobody has to do it to get anything. In point of fact I have every thing except the newest prime and I seldom bother going past wave 20/20 minutes unless I am farming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyicon Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Changed: "Blessing" Duration: Toggle. Range: 15 / 30 / 45 / 60 meters. (Hey! Now Renewal is the infinite range heal.) Cost: 5 / 10 / 15 / 25 Energy per second. (Not affected by Power Efficiency.) Effect per second:- Team has 20% / 40% / 60% / 80% health damage immunity for 1 second. (Does not affect Shields.) - Team restores 5% / 10% / 15% / 20% health. - Effect do not stack with Renewal or another Blessing. Also updated the rant I had this morning. Yeah I'm 'that' guy: the one that edits his posts. Don't worry, I didn't change anything to contradict a response, just shuffled things around so the clarity is out in the open and the insanity is Spoiler blocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomFruit Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 No weapons or gear has a drop locked beyond wave 20/20 minutes. The endless defense/survival is just there if you want to do it. Nobody has to do it to get anything. In point of fact I have every thing except the newest prime and I seldom bother going past wave 20/20 minutes unless I am farming. Have you ever tried getting a Rhino Prime chassis? Since the Lex Prime came out, I've done a total of 390 minutes of T3 survival. Haven't seen a single one. If you can't continue, that's a lot of aborting and restarting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkorp Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I do like the change. I should point out that the devs have said endless scaling defense and survival are not a concern as far as frame reworks go. So any discussion about a power not being effective at 60+ probably will fall on deaf ears. In fact you'll probably see true end game somewhere in the 50s. yeah, if they do that and remove endless scaling, i will immediatly quit this game (as all my friends), because as an ARPG player it's the only thing that is a real improvement and that was dreamed by players like me. I don't care at all with loot, or if it's interresting or not to stay, but we just like killing a lot of mobs that become more and more powerfull. level 50 ? endgame ? lolz if they want that why they give us weapons like boltor prime ? mine is 5 formas and I tear trough level 50.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The problem starts when you're at the level where Link no-longer provides enough protection to facilitate its own function. Blessing was the answer for that. If you had to step out into the open and revive a player that got 1~2-shot by some Lv60++ Gunner who's still spraying across the field. I dunno, maybe we should lose that fight? Or players should learn to stay in 360deg cover while the enfilade conditions change three times every second? Okay, suppose the % Immunity that Blessing confers to each team member is the highest % amongst all players healed. Then Link+Blessing would be (still be but just in a new way) an interesting combo. Trinity would throw up Link, mosey out into the field all aggressive like, take a bunch of damage, pop Blessing and then continue going to town all tank-commander style. .... because that's the role of a support-healer. FYI, this was the reason Link, Energy Vampire and Well of Life got changed a few month ago. It didn't exactly fix the problem. But we can't assume D.E. is doing any more or less than what they've told us. They tell us exactly what they want to say for a reason. And for the record, nobody cares when you Energy Vampire a target. They just as soon mow them down if able, and using it multiple times in a row basically prevents you from doing anything else but be a Gimp Station Attendant. "No don't shoot this one, just spank him a little!" Do you want the Trinity in the fight or not? Yes and we become "Crazy OP Tank NERF NERF NERF!" No and we become "Trashframe! Get good noob!" We're getting pinched between opposing requests, opposing senses of balance, and opposing standards. And being asked to take the worst of each and still be attentive to a Team that couldn't care less about us during a mission. (That's why I've stopped playing PUGs) You do raise some good points, or at least, they would be a lot better if they more accurately applied to the Warframe in-game/Mission Dynamic. And I think that's about as much rambling as I can manage for one day. If link isnt providing enough dmg reduction then chances are even rhino and valkyr cant tank much longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyicon Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 If link isnt providing enough dmg reduction then chances are even rhino and valkyr cant tank much longer Well, Rhino has Iron Skin (+1200 base HP Overshield) and Valkyr has Hysteria (Invulnerability + Life Steal). But lets take away Link, Skin and Hysteria. The difference then, is ARMOR. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Armor You simply cannot compare Trinity to Rhino or Valkyr in terms of defense. Trinity is Squishy even with Link up. Rhino and Valkyr are Tanky even with thier respective skills down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Well, Rhino has Iron Skin (+1200 base HP Overshield) and Valkyr has Hysteria (Invulnerability + Life Steal). But lets take away Link, Skin and Hysteria. The difference then, is ARMOR. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Armor You simply cannot compare Trinity to Rhino or Valkyr in terms of defense. Trinity is Squishy even with Link up. Rhino and Valkyr are Tanky even with thier respective skills down. Except that link ads 75% dmg reduc to shields as well as health And between that rage,quick thinking, and the new blessing Shes going to be hellishly hard to kill Low armor alone doesnt mean she cant tank Also youre using trinity with steel fiber nd thats just no good for her Its an unfair comparison entirely here Edited May 14, 2014 by Azawarau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyicon Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Except that link ads 75% dmg reduc to shields as well as health And between that rage,quick thinking, and the new blessing Shes going to be hellishly hard to kill Low armor alone doesnt mean she cant tank Also youre using trinity with steel fiber nd thats just no good for her Its an unfair comparison entirely here You ARE aware that I'm the one that posted that Rage/Quick Thinking/Natural Talent/Fleeting Expertise build? How to (Ab)Use New-Blessing I mean I only brought it up because you commentied there. Everyone use quick thinking and rage What nerf? Several times I might add. Well in some ways it is Being able to spam heals could be a good way to save lives on frames that arent too terribly soft Its not nearly as abuseable no But you can spam heals and keep people alive in a pinch Id actually add fleeting expertise to this build to make it more useful And MISSING what was actually in the build. So you could say I'm aware. ... Yes Link's 75% DR applies to shields as well as health. Just like Rhino's Skin comes BEFORE shields. Just like Valkyr's Hysteria comes BEFORE any damage. "Also youre using trinity with steel fiber nd thats just no good for her." No. The heck I'm not. What gave you that idea, but since you raised that point. You are aware you're comparing an Unarmored Trinity favorably with an Armored Rhino? Do you have any idea what that sounds like? Let me clue you into something. THIS post is looking at New Blessing from the point of vew of a Legit Trinity player that realizes the new limitations are a punishment of abusers that adversly affects us. THAT OTHER post is demonstrating that even WITH the new restrictions they still have not solved the problem. AND YOU AGREE. Edited May 14, 2014 by holyicon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) I didnt get much of anything you just posted but im still holding that trinity has just as much tanking ability as valkyr and rhino Just in a different way EDIT Id like to add that in the tanking role its unfair gaain to compare hysteria to link Hysteria invi might need to be removed and the rest of the skill buffed to make up for it Rhinso iron skin prevents damage yes but that doesnt make him a better tank on its own Take for example my Valkyr build Im taking damage to my (lack of shields) then HP and finally energy Because of the way its built my valkyr can easily take nonstop HP damage and never die Im applying the same thing to trinity except she doesnt have to rely on life strike or hysteria for a heal Also she has link that prevents and reflects many things on top of reducing damage and showing where nearby enemies are located Not really as tanky as valkyr but able to keep herself going just as long if you build her correctly with the bonus of being a healer for allies Edited May 14, 2014 by Azawarau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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