We Are Upset Because:

[Lenaii]

here it is players, please submit your greviences in an orderly fashion, please check if your greviences has been listed already, and also please assign the next #:

1) I don't like the new patch 7.7 because, rare mods don't drop as often as it used to and i have no efficient way to make money to upgrade my gear / mods / crafting ... pretty much doing everything is made very difficult across the board. This makes the game slow, grind fest, and NOT FUN anymore. I personally love the irony of a 'rare' mod dropping more frequently than a 'common' mod. ultimately i felt cheated and this game just got very boring and i'm not going to play a boring game. ty.

2) i don't like how patch notes don't actually tell us some very significant changes that affect us players directly like nerfing the damage (fire rate) of some weapons, changing mod drop qualities, etc etc. then what's the point of a patch note anyway? might as well just patch the game without addressing players anything about the patch.

3) ... (please continue)

[Xen0sys]

1) If your just grinding your not really taking the time to play the game. It probably won't ever be made easier as that is not the point. A game you finish quickly is a game you stop playing quickly.

2) Yes they do: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/17356-update-7x-weapon-balance-notes/

[plznohurtme]

As for your #1...

Rare mods should be rare, end of story. Your complaint is actually about the lack of a good way to make credits, which is extremely valid. You should really just leave it as such, because rare mods should be rare, but they shouldn't be the best source of income anymore than farming a Mercury boss for a BP should be. At the very least DE could triple (maybe quadruple) the value of selling mods (do not couple this with fusing increases) and I think it would put people in a lot better situation. The other main option would be increase end of mission rewards substantially. They were already increased versus where they were before, but with the massive credit sink that is fusing (at least 2-4k for cores) means that having to sell 10-20x cards per core fused is absurd.

Your #2 has already been addressed: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/23034-771-hot-fix-about-last-night/

3) My only main complaint would be the lack of balance between mods for rifle/shotgun/pistol/melee right now in that shotgun/pistol get more for the same cost as rifle and the fact that melee is at a severe disadvantage due to lack of being able to stack mods. Melee requires a lot more balance than gunplay does if they want to allow them to be as effective as they were in u6.

[Nokturnal]

I don't like 7.7 because...

Making the game harder by just increasing the damage mobs do is the extremely lazy way to try and scale difficulty.

To make a game harder, you're supposed to.

-Create more varients in enemies that force players to change their tactics for instance, Infestation could use a ranged flying mob of somekind.

-Create better AI, the AI is so predictable atm it's sad.

-Design better boss battles. More dynamic, entire levels designed specifically for each boss, more strategy required in killing bosses.

-Balancing abilities so there's no "I win" buttons but at the same time make every ability useful no matter the situation

I also despise what 7.7 did to the droprates.

Basically it made every single mod that noone likes have a higher % chance to drop while making every actually useful mod have a lower % droprate.

It has nothing to do with common/uncommon/rare because even the good common and uncommnons have a lower % chance to drop now it seems.

While all the horrible mods, Stamina/Stun/Sentinel/Critchance/Critdamage/Pressure point drop constantly now.

Killing higher level enemies should have just increased the % chance of rare mods to drop and lowered the % chance of common mods to drop, not nerf rare droprate across the board and make all the bad commons insanely common everywhere.

I feel with each patch DE is trying to extend the grind of the game when they should be trying to make the game more fun. (7.6 was a step in the right direction with the return of passive stats but then 7.7's dmg increase on mobs completely negated that)

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Edited April 4, 2013 by Nokturnal

[SpiderWaifu]

3) I agree with this, except for the part about melee. Sure I can't stack up rediculous damage and attack speed, but, my Gram is oneshotting enemies below lvl30. It's not maxed out yet either.

4) Rollies can't be slowed and I don't like this. That is all.

[Tac_9]

5) Lack of better rewards for harder missions. I don't mind if they turn the difficulty up a bit, but there better be some compensation. Why play the harder missions if you get just as much money playing Mercury or Venus? They need to make it so you get more credits and have a higher chance at rare mods in the tougher missions. From what I heard since 7.7 rare drop rates are cut across the board so you have pretty much the same chance to get a rare playing Pluto as you do Venus.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Tac_9

[LordLokai]

My annoyances are as follows with the new patch...

1: crafting materials are being effected by this drop rate patch, plated alloy no longer drops... was rare as crap before the patch and its even more rare now. In fact so rare i havent seen one drop it since the patch!

2: Redirection STILL isnt dropping despite the supposed drop rate fix a COMMON mod is still not dropping for most people...neither i nor my friend have seen it drop(i found one 2-3 weeks ago).

3: still better to grind low level areas for exp and level up weapons....still find myself reverting back to mercury when comes to missions because they are easier and have around same rewards... really does need to be incentive to do harder missions. More base line creidts, higher drop rates, more boxes...and i have crazy idea MAKE mods drop out of boxes at same rate as they do off mobs! would give more incentive to find all those boxes!

I am fine with rare mods being rare... as long as we are seeing 1 or 2 drop session with more during defense missions. As for people are struggling to earn cash... are way faster ways to do it then rare mod farming... i can get about 3-4k a run. and only takes me about 5 mins to do it. Now unless you were getting 20-30 mods in 10 mins i cant say it was faster then way i am doing it now(go farm blueprints people, and sell them). What bothers me more is that i cant make gear i want now because crafting materials are to damn low drop rate now... so i am pretty much stuck... till they fix it. plated alloy was rare as sin before the patch its almost non-existant now...

Edited April 4, 2013 by LordLokai

[Nokturnal]

Here's an example of why I hate the new droprates.

This is from farming the highest level infestation defense mission on Pluto in 7.7. (Basically all rares were gotten from wave rewards, which thankfully were left untouched)

This is from before 7.7, from a mix of missions not just the hardest.

Notice how more useless mods drop with 7.7's droprate and less useful ones drop in general. Even the useful common/uncommons used to drop more often. For example: Serration.

I only randomly took my first page and what I knew was prior to 7.7 as my 6th recent page. Didn't try to skew it at all, so that's RNG for ya.

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Edited April 4, 2013 by Nokturnal

[Dancingfirefly]

The change to loot drops caused me to realize what little variety in common mods we truly have.

I've seen the same one drop 3-4 times in one mission. It's generally a mod I have absolutely no use for, as well.

And +1 to Redirection still not dropping. Why not just take the easy route and label this mod as a 'rare'?

[Nokturnal]

The change to loot drops caused me to realize what little variety in common mods we truly have.

I've seen the same one drop 3-4 times in one mission. It's generally a mod I have absolutely no use for, as well.

And +1 to Redirection still not dropping. Why not just take the easy route and label this mod as a 'rare'?

Cause then people might realize all the good mods are rare and all the useless mods are common lol.

[Stonetree67]

It's for money. Mods at you don't need you sell.

[Paptimus]

i despise how 7.7 makes people whine this hard, the redirection mod thing is valid, if its common it should drop commonly, but complaining about rare mods being...rare? oh cmon

[AcidMonkie]

Game is too easy with multiple players. There is no hard content at all (not even Pluto defense mission).

[plznohurtme]

3) I agree with this, except for the part about melee. Sure I can't stack up rediculous damage and attack speed, but, my Gram is oneshotting enemies below lvl30. It's not maxed out yet either.

4) Rollies can't be slowed and I don't like this. That is all.

Regarding #3 I was getting at people trying to use flat melee not charge attacks, I'm well aware of how powerful 2h charge attacks are, and these haven't really changed. It's if you're trying to use regular melee attacks and play more melee centric (which also requires attack speed) that you're at a huge disadvantage in comparison to previously.

#4: agreed

[Nokturnal]

but complaining about rare mods being...rare? oh cmon

I'm going to design a game just for you, where everything useful is rare and everything pointless that sells for jack is common.

Then, I'll make the droprates on rare items insanely low and make commons drop 99% of the time, but allow you to pay me money so you can get the good stuff faster.

I'll call it Diablo 3.

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Edited April 4, 2013 by Nokturnal

[plznohurtme]

I'm going to design a game just for you, where everything useful is rare and everything pointless that sells for jack is common.

Then, I'll make the droprates on rare items insanely low and make commons drop 99% of the time, but allow you to pay me money so you can get the good stuff faster.

I'll call it Diablo 3.

---

So you must have really hated pre-update 7 because that's how all rare mods were, except you couldn't buy them and hope for the RNG best.

*shrug* rare mods should be rare, though I do still think that Warframe abilities shouldn't be under the "rare" category as a general rule because they exist outside of the standard mod set.

[Nokturnal]

So you must have really hated pre-update 7 because that's how all rare mods were, except you couldn't buy them and hope for the RNG best.

*shrug* rare mods should be rare, though I do still think that Warframe abilities shouldn't be under the "rare" category as a general rule because they exist outside of the standard mod set.

Except, Freeze Damage, Electricity Damage, Armor Piercing, Shields, Health, Armor, Damage Mods, Crit Chance Mods, Crit Damage Mods were all common. (Oh and Crit Chance and Crit Damage wasn't purely based on %s so they were actually useful due to Skill trees existing. Also you got ability mods from leveling up not from drops and added to them or didn't add to them as you wished. Also cip size was added to passively from skill trees)

In other words, yes there were useful rares, but there were tons of useful commons as well.

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Edited April 4, 2013 by Nokturnal

[SpiderWaifu]

Regarding #3 I was getting at people trying to use flat melee not charge attacks, I'm well aware of how powerful 2h charge attacks are, and these haven't really changed. It's if you're trying to use regular melee attacks and play more melee centric (which also requires attack speed) that you're at a huge disadvantage in comparison to previously.

As it is right now? Yeah. The flat melee is horribly underpowered.

Why should I try to buff up the &!$$-poor damage of 18 [something around there, may be higher] per hit on unarmored enemies on my Gram, when I can just boost the charge damage. Each rank up of it gives me around 100-200 more damage. I'm currently sitting at 400 [vs Ancients] and 1200 against unarmored.

A good solution, would be to just have a Generalized damage mod. It's big, and it improves all types of damage from melee. Seriously. [lowdamage value here] per swing in a greatsword [without melee mod] is bad.

[austinrelis]

Lol, I'm not upset.

Why be upset about rare mods being...rare?

[Nokturnal]

Why be upset about rare mods being...rare?

Cause almost every single useful mod is rare.

While almost every single horrible mod is common.

[Venarge]

So much whining here.... But I really enjoy all those tears.

[Cakes]

The "bad design" portion about the recent drop changes to mods is that there is an overwhelmingly greater variety of rare mods than uncommon and common mods. The recent shift to dropping common mods frequently (and focused on common mods that aren't all that great), the players typically end up gathering the same few mods over and over. Lack of mod variety has made the looting process the opposite of exciting.

Universal Warframe mods: 5 rare, 4 uncommon, 5 common

Warframe Skill mods: 48 rare, 0 uncommon, 0 common

Sentinel mods: 0 rare, 1 uncommon, 9 common

Rifle mods: 6 rare, 3 uncommon, 5 common

Shotgun mods: 6 rare, 6 uncommon, 2 common

Pistol mods: 5 rare, 5 uncommon, 4 common

Melee mods: 4 rare, 3 uncommon, 4 common

Total rares: 74

Total uncommons: 22

Total commons: 29

I left fusion cores out. You're on your own for counting those as my eyes fizzled from staring at the notches and slight color variations just now.

Staring at those numbers, it all makes sense why sentinal mods seem to be the most dominant drop I pick up, and slightly &!$$es me off that not all common mods are created equal. Weren't Redirection and Vitality common mods? Out of approximately 500 uncommon mod drops for me and those I asked, nearly 70% were comprised of the gun stun mods. Really rng.... have you truly forsaken us all?

tl;dr

Good luck to all players. If you don't already have them, you will soon be able to show off pages upon pages of sentinel mods (not Ghost or Crowd Dispersion though) and massive amounts of stun mods like Crowd Control and Staggering Force.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Cakes

[Nokturnal]

tl;dr

Good luck to all players. If you don't already have them, you will soon be able to show off pages upon pages of sentinel mods (not Ghost or Crowd Dispersion though) and massive amounts of stun mods like Crowd Control and Staggering Force.

Ghost and Crowd Disp are common actually, only Fast Deflection is uncommon. Though i'm sure the droprates aren't all equal for every common mod. (I.E. The more useful the common mod is, the worse the droprate for it is)

[Cakes]

Yeah, but even after farming hundreds of mod after the recent changes I've yet to see one of those two drop even if they're common. A bit like warframe health and shield mods.

[plznohurtme]

Except, Freeze Damage, Electricity Damage, Armor Piercing, Shields, Health, Armor, Damage Mods, Crit Chance Mods, Crit Damage Mods were all common. (Oh and Crit Chance and Crit Damage wasn't purely based on %s so they were actually useful due to Skill trees existing. Also you got ability mods from leveling up not from drops and added to them or didn't add to them as you wished. Also cip size was added to passively from skill trees)

In other words, yes there were useful rares, but there were tons of useful commons as well.

---

damage and armour piercing are uncommon right now in fact every mod you listed except for the three elements are common/uncommon ranked right now... sooooooooo yeah... fire damage was always rare pre u7 and I'm guessing given the fact that they changed the other elements to rare that this was intentional rather than the other way around. You and I both know that nobody used the common (white) versions of any mod at 30 so trying to claim that would be a load of S#&$. So you're complaining about the 3 elements being rare? grats I guess. (oh and crit damage, but we both agree that crit/crit damage is unnecessarily screwed right now and I guess lol puncture, but yeah who cares).

The "bad design" portion about the recent drop changes to mods is that there is an overwhelmingly greater variety of rare mods than uncommon and common mods. The recent shift to dropping common mods frequently (and focused on common mods that aren't all that great), the players typically end up gathering the same few mods over and over. Lack of mod variety has made the looting process the opposite of exciting.

Universal Warframe mods: 5 rare, 4 uncommon, 5 common

Warframe Skill mods: 48 rare, 0 uncommon, 0 common

Sentinel mods: 0 rare, 1 uncommon, 9 common

Rifle mods: 6 rare, 3 uncommon, 5 common

Shotgun mods: 6 rare, 6 uncommon, 2 common

Pistol mods: 5 rare, 5 uncommon, 4 common

Melee mods: 4 rare, 3 uncommon, 4 common

Total rares: 74

Total uncommons: 22

Total commons: 29

I left fusion cores out. You're on your own for counting those as my eyes fizzled from staring at the notches and slight color variations just now.

Staring at those numbers, it all makes sense why sentinal mods seem to be the most dominant drop I pick up, and slightly &!$$es me off that not all common mods are created equal. Weren't Redirection and Vitality common mods? Out of approximately 500 uncommon mod drops for me and those I asked, nearly 70% were comprised of the gun stun mods. Really rng.... have you truly forsaken us all?

tl;dr

Good luck to all players. If you don't already have them, you will soon be able to show off pages upon pages of sentinel mods (not Ghost or Crowd Dispersion though) and massive amounts of stun mods like Crowd Control and Staggering Force.

If the "rares" only told the whole story... but the two most important damage dealers damage/ap are uncommon and the only really important rare for weapons is multishot as it always was. Puncture is worthless so you might as well not count that and in comparison to every other damage crit damage comes up short so that barely counts as well. Then the three elements are all rare, but they're not all effective against each mob, so in the end we're looking at three situational choices (assuming max rank everything) that are minimized in the number of drops.

As for the mod drops you've seen, don't assume that everyone is seeing the same thing that you are. While I will say that I do agree the drop rate on the two main defensive mods seems lower than most commons I've seen a pretty large variety of drops while attempting to farm the Saryn BP for a friend:

While I do think there's a lot of room for improvement in the system having rares drop less often simply isn't a cut and dried problem. With warframe skills being manually ranked up in the mod system it seems odd to me to just lump them in with other rares, because that means especially in the future that getting any added abilities will be a struggle. Perhaps they need to do something as simple as adding in another tier of loot to separate things out further, or just drop them down.

Also I don't really get why things of the same "quality" should have different drop rates, to me this seems to go against the whole idea of having quality tiers to begin with. Sure I get that some things should be more rare than others, but generally speaking I would think that the whole point of quality is that would be what was used to dictate it. Really what seems to be happening is the fact that we have fewer mods now than before (mostly due to no dual stat mods) is coming to the surface.

Edited April 5, 2013 by plznohurtme