Acos Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Ah, I didn't know the hotfix addressed it already. I'm going to start changing my proposal then! Toggle abilities should have the energy gained per second increased by a 1.25 multiplier for every second that they remain in affect. So a 6 energy power at 75% power efficiency becomes 1.5 energy per second, but then the next second would cost 1.875, then 2.34, etc. This ensures that toggle abilities cannot simply be used idefinitely when utilizing outside sources of energy regeneration such as Team Energy Restore (something you can drop during Absorb, by the way), or Energy Vampire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexerin Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Ah, I didn't know the hotfix addressed it already. I'm going to start changing my proposal then! Toggle abilities should have the energy gained per second increased by a 1.25 multiplier for every second that they remain in affect. So a 6 energy power at 75% power efficiency becomes 1.5 energy per second, but then the next second would cost 1.875, then 2.34, etc. This ensures that toggle abilities cannot simply be used idefinitely when utilizing outside sources of energy regeneration such as Team Energy Restore (something you can drop during Absorb, by the way), or Energy Vampire. @Acos - alternatively, you could just bump the base cost per second up a bit, or nerf the mods that are the actual problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G33ke Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Ah, I didn't know the hotfix addressed it already. I'm going to start changing my proposal then! Toggle abilities should have the energy gained per second increased by a 1.25 multiplier for every second that they remain in affect. So a 6 energy power at 75% power efficiency becomes 1.5 energy per second, but then the next second would cost 1.875, then 2.34, etc. This ensures that toggle abilities cannot simply be used idefinitely when utilizing outside sources of energy regeneration such as Team Energy Restore (something you can drop during Absorb, by the way), or Energy Vampire. Though I believe that kind of scaling is going too far with the numbers proposed, I do believe that's a fantastic idea! It would allow them much better opportunities for balance without screwing that part up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker13265 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Ah, I didn't know the hotfix addressed it already. I'm going to start changing my proposal then! Toggle abilities should have the energy gained per second increased by a 1.25 multiplier for every second that they remain in affect. So a 6 energy power at 75% power efficiency becomes 1.5 energy per second, but then the next second would cost 1.875, then 2.34, etc. This ensures that toggle abilities cannot simply be used idefinitely when utilizing outside sources of energy regeneration such as Team Energy Restore (something you can drop during Absorb, by the way), or Energy Vampire. SSSHHHH DE is always listening.. plss its so perfect now, nyx is my new favorite frame and this night i had more fun than i have ever had in warframe before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zavienh5 Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 seems like hotflix that happened like a few hrs ago fixed everything about those energy draining thing. Seems to me everyones happy! well, i better be happy when later i play with nyx and banshee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 SSSHHHH DE is always listening.. plss its so perfect now, nyx is my new favorite frame and this night i had more fun than i have ever had in warframe before... I'm fully relying on the developers to be listening~ Haha, sorry to be the guy that reminds the teacher we had homework the night before, but I really don't want Nyx type-cast into the role of "the one who sits on top of the cryopod the whole mission while Trinity runs around having fun". This needs changed sooner than later. We really don't want another Blessing debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Though I believe that kind of scaling is going too far with the numbers proposed, I do believe that's a fantastic idea! It would allow them much better opportunities for balance without screwing that part up. I'm iffy about the multiplier myself. I can't go much lower though or the power consumption will never really begin and the problem of outside energy recovery becomes more prevalent.. Maybe get rid of the initial cost entirely and just adjust the powers based on their previous cost. That would more easily allow the developers to adjust the powers around a certain time limit they'd like toggle powers to operate as well: simply figure out how long the power "should" last (Maybe ten seconds for Absorb) and then balance the energy cost and multiplier around that. You can still cancel Absorb early if you want, but you still can't just sit in it indefinitely either. I don't know, needs some tweaking probably, but I was more interested in getting the idea out there and having actual numbers helps people grasp the concept easier. Either way the bulk of the proposal is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VioDuskar Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 -snip- (Maybe ten seconds for Absorb) -snip- acos, you're drunk go home or get a nyx and appreciate. 10 seconds isnt very long at all. hydroid's puddle lasted 70 seconds before all of this happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) acos, you're drunk go home or get a nyx and appreciate. 10 seconds isnt very long at all. hydroid's puddle lasted 70 seconds before all of this happened. 10 seconds is about how long a Nyx utilizing Fleeting Expertise gets out of Chaos. Hydroid's puddle lasting 70 seconds is the power I would consider odd. I'm going to ignore the statement about my ignorance; I'm quite exhausted from pointing out how absurd Blessing is and I don't have the energy to insult you back. Consider that a freebie. Regardless, my proposal of a 1.25 multiplier would mean that Nyx has expended around 20.25 energy after 10 seconds, in addition to the (25*0.25) 6.25 energy the initial cast costs (132 energy after 70s, by the way.) Given that the power only ever used to last around 6 seconds (I've always used Fleeting Expertise, so forgive my memory) I'd say that is fairly decent. My multiplier might not actually be high enough, in fact. I do find it interesting that Absorb had not seriously been considered for this type of utility before it became a Toggle. All anyone ever said about it before now is that it lasted too long; now we apparently can't get it to last long enough. Actually, the more I look at the calculator the less I like this as an idea to solve the problem. Energy Vampire, more or less, gives indefinite energy. I haven't decided if that's really a bad thing (I do think Trinity needs something to keep her relevant and I like her role better as a catalyst than a walking god). I think these changes probably need to happen to some degree from a solo perspective, but I think I'm also okay with Trinity enabling this sort of behavior (after all, there's nothing to stop Stomp, or Radial Blind, or R.Disarm, or anything else any other warframe can do without simply removing Energy Vampire entirely. So meh.) Edited May 15, 2014 by Acos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zavienh5 Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 acos, you're drunk go home or get a nyx and appreciate. 10 seconds isnt very long at all. hydroid's puddle lasted 70 seconds before all of this happened. lol 70 sec, mine only lasted 30 sec with duration mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 lol 70 sec, mine only lasted 30 sec with duration mods It sounded fishy, but I don't play Hydroid and I wasn't bothered enough to go look on the wiki. 30 seconds seems more appropriate for a modded affect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zavienh5 Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 It sounded fishy, but I don't play Hydroid and I wasn't bothered enough to go look on the wiki. 30 seconds seems more appropriate for a modded affect. mine is 30sec with constitution and continuity both maxed, he prob used a corrupted mod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 mine is 30sec with constitution and continuity both maxed, he prob used a corrupted mod Max Duration is 77.1 seconds, according to the infallible powers of my calculator. I might point out that the drawback to Hydroid's puddle is that the damage is quite low while simultaneously preventing any of the other members of your team from killing targets, slowing down defense missions considerably. Narrow Minded simultaneously reduces the range of powers, making it less than ideal for the purpose he was proposing anyway. Against anything other than infested it's not going to cover the ground it needs to defend a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zavienh5 Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 Max Duration is 77.1 seconds, according to the infallible powers of my calculator. I might point out that the drawback to Hydroid's puddle is that the damage is quite low while simultaneously preventing any of the other members of your team from killing targets, slowing down defense missions considerably. Narrow Minded simultaneously reduces the range of powers, making it less than ideal for the purpose he was proposing anyway. Against anything other than infested it's not going to cover the ground it needs to defend a point. DAMN JESUS, 77.1 SEC...O_O......T_T....OuO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--FORMA-- Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Nerf? There is basically no strategy for Absorb now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomshaquanda355 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 WHY DE NERF SONAR YYYYYYY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuy08 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) Going to say this simply there is almost no reason at all to hold your absorb for a long time out side defense. It is a nice bullet attractor but your playing with fire here. If they nerf it again you really are just going to kill it. Truth is I realized with medium team energy I could literally just sit there for a good minute. The thing is given how "bursty" it is it is almost always better to burst it and cast chaos. Why you are wondering now? The thing is at some point sitting there as a bullet sponge wont actually be helping anything. You will protect the pod but whether that be for a minute 2 minutes or just 30 seconds you are expanding the length of the wave by slowing down spawn rates. In any other game mode having penta or castanas make you a walking nuke. The real issue Acos is having is the fact that they upped the utility of the skill. Honestly I spammed it in defense when it was six seconds the same way I spam it now at high levels. The only issue is now other people have caught on. /shrug As long as there is team energy restore, energy siphon, nekros, carrier, energy vampire, or anything that restores energy the issue will either being reverting the drain rate to kill your bar in seconds (forcing you to be a quick nuke) or removing the toggle. Giving a frame that scales infinite in terms of CC (much like loki) more utility will simply give it more utility as you progress through content. A few other notes so you understand no matter how long it last there are draw backs. While it is in effect you can not move, you can not rez, range mobs tend to walk backward while shooting some times out of range of the nuke. Go back and read post about absorb through it's history. I am being serious here. Take a few minutes and search. People used to complain that it either last too long or too short. DE's response after months of this criticism? Give us full control of the length. And now we see more complaints. Go figure. Edited May 17, 2014 by TheGuy08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zavienh5 Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 well, just like to spam some absorb after 5 sec of absorbing. I would only stay in absorb to gain alot of damage if my teammates need help or i dont want Nova mprime to steal my kills lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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