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[DE]Rebecca

Warframe Ability Changes: Nova

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Since we're coderizing around inside Nova, can we get a portal that acts as cover? Not one you can shoot through like the other shields, just a deployable wall. Squishiest frame should have some ability to help keep from getting shot.

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Not sure why people keep saying Null Star is bad. Obviously it's not meant to be heavily damaging - it's meant to be a close-mid range CC against enemies that get too close to Nova, since y'know...she's paper thin?

 

Null star gives a 100% stun chance on anything it hits (that I know of). I use it all the time and am protected on all sides because of it. Not everything needs to explode and/or do 200k damage per hit, guys.

 

You're describing Null Star before Damage 2.0. Null Star no longer staggers on hit. Enemies flinch as they normally do when receiving damage, but their animations are not interrupted: they still charge you, they still shoot at you. It's become a purely damaging ability with low DPS.

 

I made some suggestions earlier, and I think these would help set Null Star back on track.

Edited by PsycloneM
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Another person who doesn't understand why the Nerf is coming.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/167441-the-perfect-way-to-nerf-nova/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/149170-nova-nerf-solution/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/184116-nova-nerf-suggestion/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/171594-nova-needs-nerfing/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/141384-not-just-another-nerf-nova-thread/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/152515-nova-molecular-prime-nerf/

 

To put it simply, the nerf is coming because Molecular Prime steals so many low level kills (of course anyone who's played this game past 30 minutes in a T3S would know it ends there).  Removing the slow effect, as you have suggested, will put no end to the kill-stealing-rage and we will likely be revisiting this "Nova Nerf" topic again in a couple months.  Not to mention that this will create a whole new rage from veteran players who rely on Molecular Prime primarily as a debuff in late-game content.

 

To me, the solution is simple:  Remove the explosions, force the player base to actually USE Antimatter Drop, because that IS her nuke.  Molecular Prime can then continue to be a great debuff, without stealing all the low-level kills.

Did you even read what I typed?  literally about two thirds of the frames can clear a room and kill steal JUST AS EASILY as nova in low levels.  The reason for the nerf is because she's deemed to be able to cover too many roles with one ability AND the silly idea that nova is the only one that can clean up mobs on mercury with their ult.  Nova is just the poster girl for this.  If you want to talk low level areas, Frost, Rhino, Ember, Saryn, Excalibur... actually, no, literally every frame that has an AoE ult that's designed to do damage can clear a room and "kill steal" just as easily as nova since we're talking low levels.  Ironically, it's the mid-levels where nova continues to shine in this factor where others tend to start falling off.

 

As I said in my post, if you would care to re-read it to confirm, I mentioned the "kill stealing".  A range nerf would have helped handily with that, in my opinion, but in light of her ult soon to have travel time, it may not be necessary.  We should wait and see.  Heck, you could even just fix it so that the explosion damage from killing a primed enemy isn't affected by the damage buff, so they take the 800 damage it says it does instead of 1600.  Double damage is plenty of utility, in my opinion.  While I'd hate to see the slow nerfed or removed, it makes sense if it were.  Thematically, it seems backwards to me to have no explosion off of m.prime.  I'd honestly rather see them scrap the idea and start over from the drawing board than turn it into a straight debuff.  It doesn't fit the theme of the frame at all, let alone it would bring up balance issues of its own.  It may be considered the best debuff in the game, but that wouldn't change the fact that it was an ult that was just a debuff.  That's like merging silence and sonar and calling it an ult.  It may be mechanically good, but that does not make it any less lackluster, honestly.

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You're describing Null Star before Damage 2.0. Null Star no longer staggers on hit. Enemies flinch as they normally do when receiving damage, but their animations are not interrupted: they still charge you, they still shoot at you. It's become a purely damaging ability with low DPS.

 

I made some suggestions earlier, and I think these would help set Null Star back on track.

 

So it's been changed since then? Wow, I really haven't noticed. Then again I don't play Nova as much as I did before Damage 2.0

 

That..definitely needs looking into, because it's one of the rare few abilities in this game that's defensive usefulness is more beneficial than just pure damage.

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Ok so there goes one of the most fun frames to use.

 

I hope that DE figures out how to bring the fun to WF back soon cause lately fun as not been a gameplay factor.

 

Oh please.

 

1. Fun is subjective. Not everyone's version of fun is the same as yours. From the way you're talking, your version of "fun" must literally mean pressing 4 and seeing everything in a 100 meter radius implode in a split second instead of over the course of 10 or so seconds.

 

2. Nova still has high damage output and can still explode everything in her path. Her 4 is still one of, if not the strongest in the game, and according to the initial post, Antimatter Drop hasn't been changed...which means she STILL is the most damaging warframe in the game even if MPrime was totally removed from her abilities.

 

Either way, this change isn't even out yet. They made this thread for input and feedback; not for instant kneejerking and condemnation.

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I think it is a crap solution, I like a lot and I discover nova now is of male gender and also that power is slow .. say no! the change of the nova warframe

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Personally, I feel the order in which things happen for M Prime needs to be changed entirely. For one? The fact that enemies get coated in Anti-matter means they should be exploding -instantly- on power use. This would, for one, put it on par with current Ultimates, being a direct damage "Nuke." Then, if anyone -survives- the explosions (Which, they probably will in the 20+ range), they're debuffed and take double damage/are slowed. I think the biggest complaint people have with Nova is that she just, tosses down this double damage field and essentially does all the work. You kill one guy? She steals that kill and like, 50 others. At least with the way I'm talking about, if she does steal them, it's through direct killing with an explosion. Not to mention, it turns the debuffs into an actual team mechanic rather than just a way for Nova's to say "Ok, everyone's primed, wrack up kills for me."

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Well, at least it's not a major nerf on paper. I'd have to try it in-game. Nerfing mprime into oblivion will just &!$$ off people. You still get plenty of XP from the skill even when you don't cast it and Nova is really easy to knock down, so stop whining about kill steals. This is a co-op game. F**king work together.

Edited by SFkenny

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Well, at least it's not a major nerf on paper. I'd have to try it in-game. Nerfing mprime into oblivion will just &!$$ off people. You still get plenty of XP from the skill even when you don't cast it and Nova is really easy to knock down, so stop whining about kill steals. This is a co-op game. F**king work together.

 

Problem is, it's not so much "working together" with Nova as it is "Let her do all the work."

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Did you even read what I typed?  literally about two thirds of the frames can clear a room and kill steal JUST AS EASILY as nova in low levels.  The reason for the nerf is because she's deemed to be able to cover too many roles with one ability AND the silly idea that nova is the only one that can clean up mobs on mercury with their ult.  Nova is just the poster girl for this.  If you want to talk low level areas, Frost, Rhino, Ember, Saryn, Excalibur... actually, no, literally every frame that has an AoE ult that's designed to do damage can clear a room and "kill steal" just as easily as nova since we're talking low levels.  Ironically, it's the mid-levels where nova continues to shine in this factor where others tend to start falling off.

 

As I said in my post, if you would care to re-read it to confirm, I mentioned the "kill stealing".  A range nerf would have helped handily with that, in my opinion, but in light of her ult soon to have travel time, it may not be necessary.  We should wait and see.  Heck, you could even just fix it so that the explosion damage from killing a primed enemy isn't affected by the damage buff, so they take the 800 damage it says it does instead of 1600.  Double damage is plenty of utility, in my opinion.  While I'd hate to see the slow nerfed or removed, it makes sense if it were.  Thematically, it seems backwards to me to have no explosion off of m.prime.  I'd honestly rather see them scrap the idea and start over from the drawing board than turn it into a straight debuff.  It doesn't fit the theme of the frame at all, let alone it would bring up balance issues of its own.  It may be considered the best debuff in the game, but that wouldn't change the fact that it was an ult that was just a debuff.  That's like merging silence and sonar and calling it an ult.  It may be mechanically good, but that does not make it any less lackluster, honestly.

 

You're wall-of-text provides nothing except continued evidence of your lack of understanding.  You want to compare Molecular Prime's room-clearing-ability with Excalibur's Radial Javelin?  Or did you mean Slash Dash?  

 

In an attempt to remain civil, I will reiterate what I've said before:  Nothing short of a MAJOR nerf to the explosions damage (or completely removed) caused by molecular prime will put an end to the large outcry of players who want Nova nerfed (as evidenced by the links in my last post.)  And removing the slowness/damage-multiplier will do nothing but create a new rage from another side of the player base and begin yet another endless stream of:  "Thanks, DE" threads.  Is that what you want?

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Next stop, Rhino's speed!

Nerf Rhino's speed ?

Edited by Unibot

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Oh! I just thought of something!

 

How about for MP just remove the slow debuff (not THAT helpful anyway) and instead if enemies shot/hit will explode (like ogris/penta explosions) if the shot doesn't kill them (radial blast damage?) and those explosions will trigger other explosions too. BUT if they do die from the shot/hit or from explosions of the chain/trigger of explosions, then the body disintegrates like it does currently (you know where their bodies turn into particles along with the molecular puff cloud).

 

The explosions will only scale with skill rank. like 200 damage at max rank? Maybe less? Maybe make it non-scalable with power strength mods (the non-killing explosions), but the molecular (on death explosions) explosions will scale with power strength mods?

 

It sounds great in my head and as I'm typing this right now..... but eh.....maybe my message or train of thought is going to get lost in translation.....

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I *thought* I would relish this day when the fun stealing, content trivializing, press "4" to win Nova would be brought in line, balanced, nerfed, or whatever you want to call it.  I was ready to bath in the tears.  

 

But I'm somewhat apathetic.  Not because the proposed changes sound lackluster (which they do) but because I have since come to the realization that the so called "end game" ie Endless Survival/Defense is the real problem.  Endless lends itself to the erroneous conclusion that you *need* frames with overpowered abilities.  

 

The longer you cheese the level by being invulnerable, hiding inside an impenetrable snow globe, levitating enemies indefinitely, or however else players have survived ridiculous amounts of time in the past or present creates a false sense of achievement.

 

And remove any incentive for geared players to play low level content!  Add the way overdue TIer 4/5/6 keys and give veterans a reason to play them.  Lastly, kill Endless Defense/Survival missions.  The band-aid needs to finally come off.

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Seems like a lot of changes to change very little about "problem" itself. Something that is only a problem for low level that might wind up running with a MP-Spammer.

 

Compared to the nerfing Trinity got, this is beans. Nova players should be sighing relief.

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I *thought* I would relish this day when the fun stealing, content trivializing, press "4" to win Nova would be brought in line, balanced, nerfed, or whatever you want to call it.  I was ready to bath in the tears.  

 

But I'm somewhat apathetic.  Not because the proposed changes sound lackluster (which they do) but because I have since come to the realization that the so called "end game" ie Endless Survival/Defense is the real problem.  Endless lends itself to the erroneous conclusion that you *need* frames with overpowered abilities.  

 

The longer you cheese the level by being invulnerable, hiding inside an impenetrable snow globe, levitating enemies indefinitely, or however else players have survived ridiculous amounts of time in the past or present creates a false sense of achievement.

 

And remove any incentive for geared players to play low level content!  Add the way overdue TIer 4/5/6 keys and give veterans a reason to play them.  Lastly, kill Endless Defense/Survival missions.  The band-aid needs to finally come off.

T 4-5-6 keys would only cause crying from lower and mid range players who would complain about not being able to attain the rewards. Although I agree it should happen, so long as the weapons attained from them were sufficiently badass. Just sayin, people will whine, big time.

 

And as far as the "Endless" maps being the problem. If you really think about them, they are a non-problem. People playing them for 80-100 levels or whatnot are only doing it for the challenge. If the challenge comes earlier due to Warframes being less "OP", then there is absolutely nothing lost, just a trivial wave number. In fact, upping the challenge actually saves players time of having to wade through 60+ levels of boredom before the "real" challenge begins.

 

The REAL problem is that there IS no endgame. The current "endgame" is just something certain hardcore players came up with entertain themselves. But I don't think DE is interested in fixing that particular issue at the moment.

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Frames should never be nerfed, full stop. Warframe is a PVE game for gods sake.

 

The only reason Nova/Any other frame gets nerfed is because whiny little turds complain that they can't get kills.

 

If you're having a hard time getting kills because a Nova/Better player is killing everything,

 

Disconnect

DO THE RUN AGAIN.

 

Jesus.

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To me, the solution is simple:  Remove the explosions, force the player base to actually USE Antimatter Drop, because that IS her nuke.  Molecular Prime can then continue to be a great debuff, without stealing all the low-level kills.

Anti-matter drop can be quite difficult to shoot on ps4.  

 

Add mouse compatability to ps4, and I suppose this is a decent change you're suggesting.

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I think it is a crap solution, I like a lot and I discover nova now is of male gender and also that power is slow .. say no! the change of the nova warframe

 

Wait... they're making nova male????

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DE needs to stop blindly obeying every whim of whiney players, otherwise every frame will wind up a useless sack of S#&$.

If they were blindly listening to players she would have been nerfed like 8 months ago

Edited by theclinton
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I really think that a big cool-down on molecular prime would ease the cries.  I love nova, but I use her differently (not max ranged, because priming enemies you can't see to kill, is bad for everyone).  I also try not to prime every single time I see an enemy (other people want to use the weapons they've worked so hard to accumulate and upgrade).  I admit, guys that do this frustrate me a bit as well.  So, the simple addition of a cool-down would have actually fit my "think about other people" play style perfectly... perhaps a mild range de-buff as well.  

 

These are my opinions, however.

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"- On cast, no longer instantly affects all enemies in a radius, now grows out from Novas casting position with a new visual effect. This is affected by Duration mods."

So basically duration = range, similar to Excals Slash Dash?

If that's the case, please for the love of all that is Warframe, DO NOT DO THAT.

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