Warframe Ability Changes: Nova

[Edward_Hardy]

Changing Nova huh (Grabs Popcorn)

 

Well this'll be fun

 

Seriously though she did need a tweak and this looks sufficient.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Edward_Hardy

[Yoshi6852]

Another person who doesn't understand why the Nerf is coming.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/167441-the-perfect-way-to-nerf-nova/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/149170-nova-nerf-solution/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/184116-nova-nerf-suggestion/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/171594-nova-needs-nerfing/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/141384-not-just-another-nerf-nova-thread/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/152515-nova-molecular-prime-nerf/

 

To put it simply, the nerf is coming because Molecular Prime steals so many low level kills (of course anyone who's played this game past 30 minutes in a T3S would know it ends there).  Removing the slow effect, as you have suggested, will put no end to the kill-stealing-rage and we will likely be revisiting this "Nova Nerf" topic again in a couple months.  Not to mention that this will create a whole new rage from veteran players who rely on Molecular Prime primarily as a debuff in late-game content.

 

To me, the solution is simple:  Remove the explosions, force the player base to actually USE Antimatter Drop, because that IS her nuke.  Molecular Prime can then continue to be a great debuff, without stealing all the low-level kills.

 

You're talking about removing the explosion which doesn't make sense lore wise with Nova. She is the antimatter frame her job is to make things explode taking that away destroys her from a lore perspective in addition while for the "end game" content the debuf is what is needed for the average player going through the star chart or going less than 30 minutes on survival the damage is equally as important as the debuf and for the Nova player is what makes it fun I wouldn't have built Nova if all her Ulti did was a debuf sure it's good, but the fun of Nova is the exposions everywhere. So taking away the damage completely changes Nova that while might satisfy some and remove the problem of her kill steeling it takes an entire group of people who play Nova as a damage frame and makes Nova no longer with it. yes she keeps antimatter drop, but that is a single target to small group move it's not designed for the same type of mass damage that MP can give you.

[angrykenji]

thank you, DE

so tired of seeing nubs spam 4 at the slightest sight of trouble. sounds like a very nifty change

Edited May 19, 2014 by angrykenji

[Sziklamester]

Sadly the game is still broken. Nerfing and buffing frames won't really help to the gameplay because the engine and online gaming broken and almost unenjoyable and with good net connection. Every frame in concept designed for what they actually doing, balance them for pvp-pve after you have a full game because this game will change a lot in the future and then nerf-buff tides come back again and some frame again turn into uselessness. My opinion is they should concentrate first on the gameplay and mechanics and when they almost finished the core of the game then they can add minor extra contents and balanced frames and they can balance the actual frames. Mod system is bad still, not able for players to make original builds and they just use the rainbow dash builds. The funny part these frames in time worked well but the bad concepts and "Devs doesn't knew what they doing really" they made some frame which still not fit in game because of roles what they gave to them. 

 

Trinity for example no damage frame just healer and buffer, Volt half utility half damage frame, Loki simply ultility frame with invisibility which work well, Rhino should be remain tanky, Valkyre which can be more fighter and well rounded - "decrease her armor to 100-150 point, add to the rest to her shield" Mag were skirmisher now the pull is so good the shield polarize aswell good others just need changes, Excall can be a bit faster then the survivability granted. Banshee hmm just skip now, Saryn can be better, Oberon should do almost the same that trinity doing with direct heals, Nova can be half utility half nuker but i liked her on way what she was, Ember need more armor and her skills could be improve or revisit, Nekros now seems good but the price of that frame is just not fit to him, Zephyr first two skills need visit, Hidroid is relatively new and still not get so cannot tell about his skills anything, Ash needs also more care.

 

These things just opinions and you guys can suggest skill visits and gameplay stuffs how to improve this game. Cheers.

[Squiintts]

You're talking about removing the explosion which doesn't make sense lore wise with Nova. She is the antimatter frame her job is to make things explode taking that away destroys her from a lore perspective in addition while for the "end game" content the debuf is what is needed for the average player going through the star chart or going less than 30 minutes on survival the damage is equally as important as the debuf and for the Nova player is what makes it fun I wouldn't have built Nova if all her Ulti did was a debuf sure it's good, but the fun of Nova is the exposions everywhere. So taking away the damage completely changes Nova that while might satisfy some and remove the problem of her kill steeling it takes an entire group of people who play Nova as a damage frame and makes Nova no longer with it. yes she keeps antimatter drop, but that is a single target to small group move it's not designed for the same type of mass damage that MP can give you.

 

I keep reading words like "lore" and "theme" while we are discussing this issue.  What lore are you speaking of?  Near as I can tell, we know as much about the lore of Warframe as most know about John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt, which is to say:  Someone else has his exact name and when he goes out, people are often shouting his name.

 

Let's not trivialize something as fundamentally important as gameplay mechanics and balance with something as mundane as "lore".  But if it's truly "lore" that is the hang-up for you, riddle me this:

 

Why does Ember take damage from Fire?

Why does Volt take damage from Arc Traps?

Why does "Colder then normal conditions" have any bearing on Frosts shields?

 

I don't find your argument of MPrime being fun to use, as an unreasonable stance, but it's the spamming of Molecular Prime in the situations you specified that has brought us here in the first place.  Make no mistake, this nerf is coming.  My contention?  Let it not be at the expense of late-game viability.

[Sapphonomicon]

Let me get this straight. Your solve for Nova is to make her an offensive frame that now has to worry about 4/4 of the different stat modifiers, as well as normal things like health and shields?

[AntLion]

No more double damage dealing to primed enemies? Are you kidding me?

That + slowing down effect make MP very useful utility skill against high level enemies when its explosive damage doesn't even hurt them noticeably.

Edited May 19, 2014 by AntLion

[Satsaru]

No more double damage dealing to primed enemies? Are you kidding me?

That + slowing down effect make MP very useful utility skill against high level enemies when its explosive damage doesn't even hurt them noticeably.

Where did they say that the double damage is going away?  I've seen people asking this and never any confirmation from DE.

[AntLion]

Where did they say that the double damage is going away?  I've seen people asking this and never any confirmation from DE.

Since they described all features of new MPrime except double damage I'm starting to think they're gonna get rid of it. And that will be overnerf. Anyway they should state all things clearer (not as they usually do).

 

They didn't mention the damage from explosions either, why do you think they'd get rid of the speed debuff without mentioning it?

I'm not talking about speed debuff. I'm talking about double damage (including from MPrime explosions). And the fact they didn't clarify about damage from explosions is not good as well. After all those debatable, rash and stealthy changes I just don't trust DE anymore.

Edited May 19, 2014 by AntLion

[Ittia]

Why does everyone care about getting the kills so much, they don't matter at all even in the slightest as long as your all working towards the same goal your all getting the rewards/experience, so kills are not cutting it for me come up with a legit excuse and then we'll do this again.

Because it isn't fun? Warframe isn't a game about cooperation? How fun is it for a single frame to KILL everything? While you're running up trying to catch up with her just so you can get a single kill? Do you realize how unsatisfying it is to not kill anything? Is there any point to playing anymore at that point? 

 

The damage from MPrime needs to go. Possibly even lower it as a 2nd ability and simply make it a debuff, while Anti Matter Drop becomes her ulti. AMD affected by range mods would be one of the best ulti's in WF. Possibly even increase its size so the whole team can hit it, while fixing the slowdown mechanic while zooming in (it doesn't work).

 

And for homework, start a new character. And play the game with random Novas. That's so much fun!

[Satsaru]

Since they described all features of new MPrime except double damage I'm starting to think they're gonna get rid of it. And that will be overnerf. Anyway they should state all things clearer (not as they usually do).

That seems backwards to common sense to me.  They're detailing all the changes they're making.  If they aren't mentioning it, they aren't changing it.  They didn't mention the damage from explosions either, why do you think they'd get rid of the speed debuff without mentioning it?

[Bazools]

Please state anything in your post before you edited it that showed any sort of constructive feedback or valid input other than "I don't like this change."

 

Ok u want feedback? Here is my feedback and valid input.

 

1. True! Nova can be a total kill stealer that can be largely abused by new players that like to make things go Booom, till they understand how and when her skills should be used instead of spamming the 4 key.

 

2. Nova was for a long time the most fun and pleasing frame to play with, until damage 2.0 got its claws on her. 

 

3. She was highly useful to use on high level content (+100 lvl enemies) because of MP's CC capabilities or the Antimatter Drop and M. Prime combo.

 

4. Stats wise she is quite defenseless on her own (glass cannon like many call her)

 

5. Nerfing Nova is like taking away her only reason to exist (high dps), again...

 

6. Nerfing or buffing Nova and other frames will really not improve the game experience itself, since the problems 40% of the problems are in the core of the game and progression system. 

 

7. If she is to be nerfed at least the devs should give her a stats buff.

 

8. I do not agree with cooldowns on a game like Warframe that is supposed to be an action game but if a cooldown should become the case, then DE should not change anything else about her and leave everything as is.

 

9. Lastly i can appreciate the fact that the Devs listen to the community but not always the requests made by nerfers and buffers, whinners and white knigts should be catered to (Frost, Trinity, Nova, Brakk, Acrid, etc). Sure it can be argued that the some frames or weapons were a bit OP but they had a place in the game.

 

EDIT:

 

10. Instead of DE trying to balance the frames and weapons their focus should be on balancing the content, enemy AI and overhaul game difficulty, leveling any piece of equipment should be a worthy challenge and not a two hour job, nerfing and buffing frames will simply takes away what makes them unique.

 

Edited May 19, 2014 by Bazools

[HansJurgen]

Firstly, any word on fixing Nova's worm hole collision detection? Too often, it has no effect and you just pass through it without teleporting you.

 

Secondly,

Why is a glass cannon's "cannon" being nerfed while no effort is made towards making it less glassy? Without the ability to crowd control effectively or nuke her targets, nova is in a world of hurt.

 

I understand a lot of people hate glass cannons and find them op, for whatever reason. What I do not understand is how come what makes Nova strong gets nerfed while what makes her very weak does not get buffed to make up for it?

 

Along with Loki, Nova is the squishiest frame in the game, and unlike Loki it has no meaningful passive defense, something to keep her safe while casting what seem to be - from your description - a contrived and situational ultimate.

 

I am disappointed by the direction taken to balance warframes, taking the route of nerfing abilities with no regard to context, instead of balancing content around them, and the abilities around the content. Additionally, there is no effort being made to make all abilities equally worthwhile (as it is true with Loki, for instance). Instead we have many warframes (Nova included) with mixed bag of abilities, some of which make no sense in the context of the game, or do not match that warframe's playstyle.

 

The post above nails the other important issues which need to be addressed.

Edited May 19, 2014 by HansJurgen

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

Let me get this straight. Your solve for Nova is to make her an offensive frame that now has to worry about 4/4 of the different stat modifiers, as well as normal things like health and shields?

that would be point lol. You make players decide what they want. Super squish glass cannon. Regular squish Utility with still great damage. Low squish temp utility with ok damage. It's called build variety and it's wonderful.

Edit- my phone does not like me typing ok.

Edited May 19, 2014 by (PS4)geomancer1980

[K0bra]

Im not happy with that changes.Where is the 2x damage multiplier?Thats the best on MP.

Next growing MP + duration mods.I hope it only sounds very bad and is seen ok.

Nova is absolutely ok like she is maybe not in Low levels but absolutely in higher ones where no one cries for kill stealing.THEY are happy when stuff is dying there and THEY dont care who killed it because THEY need the Life Support also and dont have infinite ammo to kill enemies.

The other thing you destroy high modded builds with loads of forma.Its REAL MONEY that is wasted.I know its a beta but there is still REAL MONEY in the game.Small changes ok but this isnt a small one anymore.

 

For which content do you "balance" now?That easy T3 missions?What is with the Veteran players?There isnt any challenge anymore.I saw where you talked about T4 lets see or is it only T3 with higher enemies or can we expect something really difficult and new?

Really alot people wait for much harder content for a long time but you Nerf the Warframes down for the existing one(content)?

I cant understand this anymore.This wont make the existing one more challenging or exciting.It makes it only more boring,because people go to another Warframes(at the end all play Rhinos till you nerf them too) and then next Nerf threads incoming.Wow so much variation at the end.NO Combos from diffrent Warframes(like Nova MP and Ember activate World on Fire).What a nice cycle.What is when the Nerfed Warframes are to bad for the T4 missions?Buff them again?

 

 

 

So much people play Nova i think with that changes you make huge parts of the community angry.

 

Its sad DE that you jump on the Nerf train.

Edited May 19, 2014 by K0bra

[Wargasm_v2.X]

T 4-5-6 keys would only cause crying from lower and mid range players who would complain about not being able to attain the rewards. Although I agree it should happen, so long as the weapons attained from them were sufficiently badass. Just sayin, people will whine, big time.

 

And as far as the "Endless" maps being the problem. If you really think about them, they are a non-problem. People playing them for 80-100 levels or whatnot are only doing it for the challenge. If the challenge comes earlier due to Warframes being less "OP", then there is absolutely nothing lost, just a trivial wave number. In fact, upping the challenge actually saves players time of having to wade through 60+ levels of boredom before the "real" challenge begins.

 

The REAL problem is that there IS no endgame. The current "endgame" is just something certain hardcore players came up with entertain themselves. But I don't think DE is interested in fixing that particular issue at the moment.

 

Having maps where the difficulty is substantially increased beyond what T3 currently provides *can* be seen as more reliable "end game" content.  As far as newer or less geared players feeling "entitled" to being able to run them it's not really a consideration.  These maps are for veterans who have spent the time earning xp, farming and levelling mods, and want a legitimate challenge.  Not the faux challenge of absurdly high level enemies where players have to circumvent or negate the challenge rather than overcoming it by abusing broken frame powers.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

Having maps where the difficulty is substantially increased beyond what T3 currently provides *can* be seen as more reliable "end game" content.  As far as newer or less geared players feeling "entitled" to being able to run them it's not really a consideration.  These maps are for veterans who have spent the time earning xp, farming and levelling mods, and want a legitimate challenge.  Not the faux challenge of absurdly high level enemies where players have to circumvent or negate the challenge rather than overcoming it by abusing broken frame powers.

T4-6 would just be higher level mobs. It would just take less time to get to them. I like that they are re balancing. Hopefully lvl 40 enemies will be a serious challenge in the coming months.

[Yorinar]

Give the kill credits to whoever starts the chain reaction to remove complaints about her.  Start showing assists more prominently and give her credit for an assist on anyone primed.  Add mission challenges for assists (affinity bonus challenges I mean).

 

I like the spread, change to explosion radius and so on, but slowness and damage susceptibility are important to give her viability.  It's the only thing that makes her worth bringing once the enemies have scaled up beyond the point where they chain die.

 

edit: I don't believe her skill changes will remove the perceived "doucheyness" nova has attained and will instead ensure that she cannot be brought to anything late game.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Yorinar

[(PSN)R6CHAMELEON]

You did not even see it in game.

The main cry of a people that nova kills lots of enemy fast with 1 ability.

You do not know how fast the circle will grow, you do not know how strong the blast will be.

Yet you already state it will bring her in line with other frames, while she is already in line.

your right her squishiness is also a factor for high level game play the slow effect helps her survive. and to be stating the changes brings her in line without even seeing it is a silly statement, bit premature

[TheGuyver]

I'm going to run around with rush, stretch and overextended now to prime everything and be one of those douchebag novas that everyone hates after making it a point to NOT be one.

 

Thanks for the change DE, now we're forced to be douchebags that STILL get top damage and all the kills.

[(PSN)R6CHAMELEON]

Give the kill credits to whoever starts the chain reaction to remove complaints about her.  Start showing assists more prominently and give her credit for an assist on anyone primed.  Add mission challenges for assists (affinity bonus challenges I mean).

 

I like the spread, change to explosion radius and so on, but slowness and damage susceptibility are important to give her viability.  It's the only thing that makes her worth bringing once the enemies have scaled up beyond the point where they chain die.

agreed to remove her ability to survive....why? that was never ever the problem. removal of the slowness without a buff to armor or other stats means

beginners will love her vets will throw her away and go back to rhino packs

[Luckzifer]

Finally a good change... 

[SoulEchelon]

 

 

Ok u want feedback? Here is my feedback and valid input.

 

 

Now was that so hard?

 

 

 

 

2. Nova was for a long time the most fun and pleasing frame to play with, until damage 2.0 got its claws on her. 

 

Damage 2.0? All Damage 2.0 did for Nova is change Antimatter Drop to Radiation damage and Molecular Prime to Blast. This means she can do even more insane numbers towards factions weak against these.

 

And, since her damage numbers are already higher than the moon, it really doesn't matter anyway. Enemies have a finite amount of health. Even if they're strong against either Blast or Radiation, within the normal level boundaries (1 -50. Yes, level 50 and beyond is past the boundary of the game DE is trying to balance), everything just dies. And will still die with this update.

 

 

 

 

3. She was highly useful to use on high level content (+100 lvl enemies) because of MP's CC capabilities or the Antimatter Drop and M. Prime combo.

 

As stated above, DE is balancing the game for levels 1 through 50. Balancing the game for levels 50 through 100+ would make the actual, real game levels totally useless. Why do you think it takes so many mods, so many forma, so many fusions, and so many ranks to even stand a chance in level 100+ content?

 

And why do you think there's absolutely 0 nodes on the star map that features level 100+ content as its base? And why do you think level 100+ content gives you absolutely nothing aside from bragging rights? Because it's not part of the actual game.

 

Either way, MP still gives a slow duration and 2x damage. DE did not state anywhere that they were removing it, thus I'm not going to kneejerk myself off a cliff like everyone else. Antimatter Drop wasn't changed, either.

 

 

 

 

4. Stats wise she is quite defenseless on her own (glass cannon like many call her)

 

 

 

 

So don't go it alone? This IS a group oriented game after all. Nova needs checks and balances, just like everyone else. She's still powerful offensively, thus she still needs to be weak defensively. That's how it works. If you want power AND defense, go play Rhino.

 

 

 

5. Nerfing Nova is like taking away her only reason to exist (high dps), again...

 

Again. Antimatter Drop = not touched. Molecular Prime = still just as powerful as before, only with *gasp* a duration and an over time debuff that affects more and more targets!

 

What, are you crying about the "nerf" in her explosions? Do you know just how large a 10 meter explosion is? That's almost 33 feet. 33 feet; not too far from half of a damn football field.

 

And also this, stated in the OP: This is closer to other explosive weapons in the game. This is affected by range mods. So, Nova's explosions are actually exploding correctly now, but can be just as destructive as before if you mod them to be as such. Oh, lawdy, Nova's "high dps" is gone! (btw, DPS? Really? Damage per second? She debuffs and uses a tactical nuke. She and pretty much every other Warframe's abilities is centered around SPIKE damage and DoT. Gotta love people throwing DPSDPSDPS around everywhere. That acronym ruins games.)

 

 

 

 

6. Nerfing or buffing Nova and other frames will really not improve the game experience itself, since the problems 40% of the problems are in the core of the game and progression system. 

 

 

 

So I guess we should just give a middle finger to people who play Ash, or Saryn, or Banshee, or Ember, or any other frames that, both in the past and the present, have been in dire need of buffing. Yeah, screw THOSE guys. MY favorite, overpowered warframe is finally getting SLIGHTLY nerfed! Sure her damage numbers weren't touched and the most devastating nuke in the game is hers and hasn't been touched either, but HEY! They're nerfing MY warframe! This game sucks! Let's TOTALLY ignore MY FAVORITE WARFRAME and push blame on the GAME ITSELF! Yeah! Because who gives a S#&$ about balance, AMIRITE!?

 

 

 

7. If she is to be nerfed at least the devs should give her a stats buff.

 

 

What stats? Most certainly not her damage, I hope. And since she still can do literally everything she could do before this "nerf" besides press 4 and instagib everything in sight immediately, I see no reason to change anything about her. Now she needs to be just a TINY bit more tactical. More methodical. A.k.a.; have a brain.

 

Do you wanna know why they chose to have her MPrime spread outward over time? Because that means the enemies nearest her - i.e.; the enemies that prove the biggest threat to her current well being in a general sense, will get hit by Mprime instantly. Thus, she can slow them, debuff them, and make them explode as soon as possible so she can survive and escape. And while she's finding a safer spot, her Mprime continues to spread throughout the rest of her foes to stop them from pursuing her too quickly. Then she can just pick them off from afar with whatever she wishes to use. THAT is what DE was going for, and I, for one, am very happy to see this change. Actual strategy with my Nova? Whodathunkit.

 

 

 

8. I do not agree with cooldowns on a game like Warframe that is supposed to be an action game but if a cooldown should become the case, then DE should not change anything else about her and leave everything as is.

 

 

 

 

9. Lastly i can appreciate the fact that the Devs listen to the community but not always the requests made by nerfers and buffers, whinners and white knigts should be catered to (Frost, Trinity, Nova, Brakk, Acrid, etc). Sure it can be argued that the some frames or weapons were a bit OP but they had a place in the game.

 

Yeeeah I wish you had stated this "point" as your first one. I would've realized answering you would be a totally futile effort and a waste of time.

 

 

 

10. Instead of DE trying to balance the frames and weapons their focus should be on balancing the content, enemy AI and overhaul game difficulty, leveling any piece of equipment should be a worthy challenge and not a two hour job, nerfing and buffing frames will simply takes away what makes them unique.

 

 

Well here's your problem. You seem to think everything in this game should be worked on.........except the things you don't. One thing developers learn pretty damn quickly is that you can't have selective memory nor favorites. AI could be improved. The leveling system could be worked on. Game difficulty, especially for newcomers, could be tweaked. But guess what? Weapons and Warframes should also be worked on, too. You can't just sit there and exclude content as a developer. They read the forums, learn of both the strengths and weaknesses of their game, and figure out what can be fixed quickly and what will need a much longer and heavier hand. Warframe abilities are certainly far easier to tweak and edit than enemy AI. And, seeing as there are truly countless threads about Nova being overpowered/ruining the game for lower levels/not being "fun" to the general public, as well as Trinity's Blessing literally trivializing the whole entire game, as well as Ash being underwhelming and weak compared to the other frames, as well as Banshee also not being fun or enjoyable to play as for most users... Yeah, I'd say DE is certainly in the right to look at these Warframes and rework them to make them both fun and balanced to play with - especially while in a group.

 

The only thing I would fully agree with, is to change back Null Star to what it used to be. It doesn't do a 100% stun proc anymore, thus isn't that awesome defensive ability Nova could most certainly use. I believe this was a change that slipped through the cracks during Damage 2.0's debut, since of course that was when proc chances for certain "status effects" were created. It should be 100% again, because Nova is indeed very squishy.

Edited May 19, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[Brynslustafir]

I am totally ok with this. Nova will still be useful and fun after these changes. 

[pyr0_storm]

Can you fix the frame? Somewhat. Can you fix all the Nova players who use nothing except M Prime? No.

 

Even with this, I will continue to exit lobbies with Novas until I see someone use something other than M prime.

Do you realize how conceited you appear just saying that? I get more power and destruction out of my Rhino 

Edited May 19, 2014 by pyr0_storm