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[DE]Rebecca

Warframe Ability Changes: Nova

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I think Nova should have 1.0 or 1.1 

 

I'm just talking about speed not power, Ash is a stealth warframe, which all of the ninja. So fast and mobile. Rhino is a tank. Why I will liken him with Loki? Which is a stealth warframe and support. This is two extremes. 

 

From my point of view, it is not logical that Nova has 1.2 of speed movement. 

 

So yes, I think it's Ash who should have 1.2 of speed, not Nova

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Yup another 4 forma and a reactor frame i have is trash now. Thx DE. Much Appreciate it. Please let me know beforehand which frames you will nerf next time so that i wont waste my stuff on it.  First my Trin is gone. Now my Nova. Hmm. Who knows maybe its my Excalibur Prime that will be useless next nerf.

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I currently have a huge issue with how balancing of Warframes is going. As much as I appeciate the intent, other Warframe abilities need some looking at, for example Nullstar. Nova really isn't the only Warframe that has this exact issue of only 1/4 Abilities being actually useful in more then very specialized situations.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am all for balancing something as unbalanced as Nova's 4th ability - but we seem to be mostly doing that while ignoring others. (And don't come with "But there was a Ash Shurken change recently!")

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I really don't get all people whining about some fixes. Trinity was clearly game breaking, the tank role was supposed to go to Frost/Rhino, at core, Trinity is a healer and support, not a "Press 4 to win" frame, and if you read the hotfixes, you should have noticed the fact that the more you are damaged, the more Trinit' Ult will be powerful. No more no-braining, I like it in fact. Makes the game a bit challenging.

 

About Ash and Nova, I really don't see the point about the abilities in the current discussion. Ash is supposed to be more quick in my mind. He is a NINJA, the most Ninja of the Ninjas in a Space Ninja game. Nova is a Council product centered around Dark Matter, who should be squishy and slow in my opinion considering the incredible power she possesses. Thinking about Ash, he as only two damaging abilities, one stealth, one control. While Nova has three damage powers. It should come at a cost. And her speed can easely do the trick, rendering her squishiness irellevant.

 

Ash on the other hand is supposed to be more controlly, needs to be quick around the battlefield and, on the same basis as Loki, whipe chaos all over the greedy milk and the grineer dogs. His role is not to be purely centered around damage but more on mobility, evasiveness and stealth. So it seems more logical to me that he should be the quickest frame, on the same level as Loki. 

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Ok, nice job on that ! (Nova user ;))

Now, could you take a look at wormhole and null star please ? These two aren't worth using yet :/

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So basically you didn't change anything, or at least nowhere near as severe as you destroyed Trinity. Ok. Whatever.

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Yup another 4 forma and a reactor frame i have is trash now. Thx DE. Much Appreciate it. Please let me know beforehand which frames you will nerf next time so that i wont waste my stuff on it.  First my Trin is gone. Now my Nova. Hmm. Who knows maybe its my Excalibur Prime that will be useless next nerf.

I agree this really suck´s... well so many hours playing for nothing...

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depending on how quick the outgoing priming is, i'm okay with this.

in fact, i dont really see that big of a change. her ult plays like volt's ult now, whoopdeedoo?

you're just complicating things, that's all. frost, trin, now to a lesser degree nova, making the frames so tricky to build and use effectively that a beginner has a hard time getting into them.

i dont see a reason in punishing people that put 4-5 forma and a reactor in, then hunted and traded for all those super-rare important mods (continuity, etc etc). its not like those frames are broken out of the gate, they just have more tapable potential than others.

maybe it would be better to concentrate on making other frames not useless from a certain enemy-level on so people have a reason to branch out, not punish the minmaxers for using the 'best' options.

ash's buff is a good start. more like that please, less nerfs, and if the game becomes 'too easy', up the difficulty, improve the AI, etc etc. there's more than one way to 'fix' OP gear.

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Honestly as a Nova player i'm quite excited for this. The fun of Nova was her damage nerfing that was not the way to go because she would then become worthless at higher levels. People are complaining about MP needing too many mods to optimize but I like that it makes a risk reward associated with it. To give MP more range you will suffer in other places and the same for damage and efficiency it's no longer there is one Nova build that is best you'll have to make sacrifices what do you pride most with Nova is it the range, debuff duration or damage? You have to pick which aspect of it you want Nova to be best in.

 

Just a thought for people who have Fomaed a lot with these changing frames what if we had the option to re-roll our foma. So if I fomaed Nova after the patch hits give me the option to without resetting her to rank 0 to change the polarity that way that way if there was a specific purpose of that slot that might have been destroyed with the patch we can change it to be something we would prefer.

 

Also as other poeple have said I would like to see a change to Nova's skills honestly really just Null Star. Put back it's hit stun ability and maybe a secondary cast, it's frustration to have one null star around you allow us to fire off all the Null stars in one volley as a high speed projectile, or allow us to reset them. So if we have one null star allow us to recast null star lose that one, but get a fresh new set of them.

 

As far as antimatter drop I think the damage is alright it's really a single target attack I very rarely find it hitting clusters of enemies for damage usually it's one large enemy that gets destroyed by it I like the idea of this basically one target high damage strike.

 

Wormhole I just have one request allow it to ignore railings and things of that sort so we can be done with the days of warping 2 feet into the nearby railing.

 

So far I've been happy with your balances to the frames keep up the good work!

 

Also what's happening to the 2x damage debuff of MP do we still get it or not?

Edited by Yoshi6852

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Hmmm my thoughts - all the duration changes are fine by me but make them unchanged able like rhino stomp cause nova is acutally a caster frame...without her power she can't really be survival in the high lvls... im up for the change but make the duration unchangeable by duration mods...you could disagree with me but  this is my opinion

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Honestly as a Nova player i'm quite excited for this. The fun of Nova was her damage nerfing that was not the way to go because she would then become worthless at higher levels.

 

What "higher level" content are you referring to?  As enemy levels grow, any ability that deals a Static damage number becomes more and more useless.  It's the speed debuff and the damage multiplier that allow Molecular Prime to shine against high level enemies.

 

Dealing 800-1600 damage from an Molecular Prime explosion is inconsequential compared to a properly modded weapon doing 12000+ damage per second on an enemy with a 2x damage multiplier, for a total of 24000+ dps. 

 

I stand by my earlier post, remove the explosions completely, leave the rest of the ability as it is.  It will end all the kill stealing rage, while keeping the ability viable for higher level content.

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this isn't bad like the trinity nerf, this  looks pretty good to me.

 

range nerf of explosions makes sense,  they were pretty big to begin with.

 

the damage isn't mentioned hopefully it stays the same.

 

the slow mo effect scaling I very much like.

 

do enemies still take double damage from all sources? this was the best part of nova in later games as you could kill enemies fast enough. the explosions were just a bonus.

 

to bad the trinity nerf wasn't like this.

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What "higher level" content are you referring to?  As enemy levels grow, any ability that deals a Static damage number becomes more and more useless.  It's the speed debuff and the damage multiplier that allow Molecular Prime to shine against high level enemies.

 

Dealing 800-1600 damage from an Molecular Prime explosion is inconsequential compared to a properly modded weapon doing 12000+ damage per second on an enemy with a 2x damage multiplier, for a total of 24000+ dps. 

 

I stand by my earlier post, remove the explosions completely, leave the rest of the ability as it is.  It will end all the kill stealing rage, while keeping the ability viable for higher level content.

Man understand the essence of the situation.

If someone cry about chain reaction on low lvls, just remove explosion or cancel damage between cursed enemies. 

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Im down, and agree with the changes presented: They will make Nova more fun to play.

Lately I have been using her again but with MPrime inactive or remove, her @2 skill is way funner (and nicer to the other players around you) to use.

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As a frequent nova user, I'm curious about those proposals. MP is hated not for being OP, but for stealing fun and ruining effort of other Tenno. Sometimes i play mission to level up my new gun, and all i get is multiple MPs, all my effort to get XP for my gun is practically ruined. It is not OP, it's just lazy. it is low effort - high damage power. Very few other WF powers are like that. No wonder it is hated by someone who has to empty entire buckets of bullets to get to same kill count as Nova.

This apply to low level missions, where all that whine is coming from. I personally saw Whiners to mutate from sarcasm to panicky: "DO IT AGAIN!!! HERE ARE SOME ENERGY ORBS, DO IT AGAIN!!!" as they got to wave 50. It was more satisfying to watch than getting orokin catalyst on login :)

I see in this thread some very valid points about removing explosion and keeping speed debuff and double damage for later game. +10 from me.

Perhaps, with multiple casts, stacking debuffs and damage multiplier would be nice (not 2x, 4x, 8x..., but more like 2x, 2.5x.... and with removed explosion) for high level missions. Or not, it's just an idea :)

 

In previous post i proposed to scale damage effect from explosion with Enemie's level. Low level targets on Mercury would get only fraction of damage that Void corrupted would get. Or, maybe, instead of explosion, perhaps only Knockdown with Stun for few seconds would suffice. Tenno would still need to finish enemies lying on the ground. This would bring need for teamwork to finish targets, everyone gets their kills. It would be useful on Mercury same way as it is on defense wave 60+ No more lazy superpower.

 

I wish DE would also look at Nova's other powers. Null Star is much worse than it was before, and even then it wasn't all that perfect. No wonder people use MP :)

I would like to propose Null Star to be spawned one Star per Cast with low cost (around 5), so player can spam button five times to get 5 stars. If he spends some, he can top it off as needed, waiting for last nullstar to be launched is a pain. All maximization effects still apply.

Also, casting animation with player stopping in mid run is bad.

 

Worm hole could use improvement with ray casting so it would not get stuck on every railing and enemy. Entry window quite often refuse to accept player so i need to jump around to get into it.

 

 

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There are several ults that are great at "killstealing." Some that are even better at it. People just like to latch onto any reason as to why they're not performing well. Things like "but I play *fun* frames." Of course you're not going to outkill somebody who's choosing and upgrading their loadout specifically to kill fast and efficiently like that. Especially in a game so focused on throwing large amounts of enemies at you.

 

As for lowbie games getting ruined by the big bad power players. That's an issue of not having real content for us to take our min/maxed multi-forma gear to unless we want to spend 30 minutes to an hour clearing trash before we get challenged. And also one of alerts and some of the best farms for the things we need in lowbie areas (the entire solar system.)

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some solid points you have there, i have to agree with you, but no one is whining because for example null star is effortless power. People whine and call for nerf because they see shiny enemies go puff. Perhaps announcement saying "Everyone currently not using Molecular Prime is still awesome!" would stop call for nerf :)

Edited by turbinea

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You could tone it down a little, reduce it from 400% to only 200% or even 150%, or have power strength not apply.

Nyx is a flat 100% damage in 100% damage out, should Antimatter drop be so much more?

you mean, have Power Strength apply? as it currently only affects the Base Damage. which is obviously not very relevant here.

so Power Strength affecting the Multiplier (since that's related to Power Strength) sounds good to me.

 

Powers being immune to Mod Effects is the biggest issue the Powers in Warframe has. 

always comforting to see more Powers over time being tweaked to be affected by more of these effects. 

 

 

should give assist exp

ye. Assists should be a thing. 

 

 

 

 

also, i'm a bit disappoint to see that MPrime isn't incentivizing clustering for kills still.

would make for good synergy. still capable of killing groups, but incentivizing it to be actually effective by clustering Enemies together in a tight pack for maximum Damage.

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[...]

But I also love the mechanic, the reward for juggling AMD balls or feeding them is almost justified.  I really enjoy navigating a half mill ball around a level and under doorways for use in a room later on.

You could tone it down a little, reduce it from 400% to only 200% or even 150%, or have power strength not apply.

Nyx is a flat 100% damage in 100% damage out, should Antimatter drop be so much more?

Uhh yeah, but nyx absorb kinda makes you immune to everything in the game (with no risk to dispells), has bigger explosion radius AND taunts enemies (means your cryopod/team won't be left with ''all that fun you're missing'' if you play it right). That said, absorb always struck me as a defensive/panic skill, unlike AMD (designed for offense).

 

 

For the sake of repetition: please fix skills 1 and 3. nullstar is really useless and portaling 10cm forward is annoying (also, entering the portal is also a problem sometimes... maybe give it a bigger hitbox?).

Also, while you're at it, you could make some cool shenanigans with that portal (like making AMD able to cross it or that expanding ring able to cross the wormhole and continue from there)

 

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Mm... so the only real difference is that Nova will no longer detonate entire rooms just by popping a button and letting the sentinel fart once? I will second that first replier - just how long will the animation be?
Theoretically if Nova still would blow rooms/packs of mobs in Tower Survival - with a bit of animation time, limited duration(as if it ever mattered, in fact - the less it lasts - the better) - 'tis not bad. Especially since power strength can now slow enemies for more than 50%.

I just hope that visual effect will be as good as the sight of WHOLE WIDE room evaporating... Even if not as practical.

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The way i feel it, that won't balance much
I think i would either remove the slow, the damage multiplier, or the chain reaction. Can't have the three of those at the same time.

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When i first started Warframe, like many people, i decided that i was an "advanced player" so i chose the Loki and immediately hated the class. the starting weapons and the movements were strange and alien to me. However my cousin really enjoyed the game so after taking a break from it for a month or two i came back and messed around with it and fell in love with the ember.

 

During a mobile defense mission i random'd into a group with a person who for all intents and purposes made the room die. I asked my cousin, "Hey what the hell is that and where can i get one" he told me it was the Nova Class and we could get her by killing The Raptor.

 

After i got her i fell in love all over again, the bell bottoms the boots, the abilities, and her slight amount of lore. 

 

I own most every other frame now including my Loki who i have really come to love once i figured out how awesome he can really be. And the Corpus have been a deep personal favorite of mine, to the point where i made a text tone of "Zanuka... KILL!!" spoken by Alad V. I have a DERA, Dual Castanas, and Prova maxed and forma'd a few times and i love the energy based weapons so much (even if they are a little weaker) But the Nova allowed me to use these "weaker" weapons because of M Prime and her slew of awesome abilities. I have spent a few bucks on armor, LOTS of potatoes, weapon and warframe slots, colors, weapons and boosters and almost everything plat can buy. While i realize i knew change had to come to the Nova at some point i have been dreading the day it would finally arrive.

With all of these things being said i have a few things to say about M Prime and how i fear it will ruin my favorite part of the game. I do not feel entitled to anything based on the fact that i spent money or because i have put in a few hundred hours into the game. i just hope a developer reads this and thinks "maybe it's not the time or the way to touch Nova yet" 

 

 

I have a lot of concerns with these changes.

I am terrified that the ring of priming will move too slow and not work as i hope it would. If changes have to be made to this ability i can muddle through some of them but this expanding ring really scares me. It needs to move quickly or at least be boosted by say natural talent or a power mod making the ring expand so fast its near instant anyways, or make it expand quick enough so while moving i can drop M prime and not out run my prime ring. The explosion radius and the slow effect as well as the Duration is almost a non-issue as the double damage makes all of those points moot. so honestly i'm not sure why they are even being changed. (and NO DE that does not mean you can feel free to screw around with the damage multiplier...) 

My main fear here is that the ability will basically move so slowly or not affect people close enough to how it already does that the entire class is made worthless by these changes.

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If kill count is the root concern, why not implement anything that contributes to the kill of a mob be added to players' kill count? Support classes have always gotten screwed over like Trinity who keeps her team alive and kills less, but now it's even worse cause she's even busier heal spamming. It'll be the same complaint that's used for every single nerf and until the root cause is solved, I don't see the point to nerfing at all.

 

Onto the changes. Considering how I've seen older frames get nerfed, I've always felt that Nova's MP should have a prime duration which is a welcomed change to add challenge. Other than that, all the other tweaks seem like side changes.

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I hope the prime ring moves slow, otherwise, DE will not have gotten anything we've been saying for months upon months.  A do everything ultimate that trivializes/reduces gameplay - if they still don't change the core behavior of this, well...we'll have to see..

I don't have a lot of faith when it comes to DE and balanced/complimentary design.
Concepts, Aesthetics, yes, but not the above.

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