Rework Shadows Of The Dead, Please?

[[DE]Momaw]

Now that we have "sustained" warframe abilities, it would be awesome if Nekros' Shadows of the Dead was changed to this:

 

* Initial casting cost of 25 energy

 

* Drains 1 energy per second constantly. Not affected by Efficiency.

 

* Every time Nekros kills an enemy while Shadows of the Dead is active, a Shadow will rise and fight for him.

 

* Maximum number of Shadows allowed affected by power strength

 

* Cost to sustain ability increases by 1 energy per 5 seconds per monster raised. Affected by Efficiency.

 

* Ability bar on HUD displays number of Shadows currently alive versus how many are allowed  ("X/Y") instead of duration.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Momaw

[Zeromanicus]

I'd like if it we just threw out resurrecting enemies entirely.

 

Shadows of the Dead should call on the void energies/void echoes of fallen tenno and summon them to battle. Based on power strength, you call up 1 or a few Specters to fight by your side. At least specters hunt for enemies and shoot them.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Zeromanicus

[Endrance]

Even though i agree with this change, i would rather prefer the "fix/rework" other necessary abilities first.

[KIREEK]

I like as it is now, i can raise plenty of enemies (blind rage and intensify) and they last quite a while (narrow minded + constituition).

I find it a very usefull ability for defense because it is unlikely that you will be attacked

 

The way i have it now it costs 155 energy and i have plenty of time to search for more energy, they way you said it means it will cost 16 energy per second, meaning it would last 4 times less if i waste the same amount of energy.

 

Now it's 155 energy for 40 seconds +-

the way you say it it's 25 + 160 (185 total) for 10 seconds +-

 

If your idea is a buff, i don't think that is the way.

Edited May 19, 2014 by KIREEKPSO

[[DE]Momaw]

The way i have it now it costs 155 energy and i have plenty of time to search for more energy, they way you said it means it will cost 16 energy per second, meaning it would last 4 times less if i waste the same amount of energy.

 

Now it's 155 energy for 40 seconds +-

the way you say it it's 25 + 160 (185 total) for 10 seconds +-

 

Well, let's break it down.

 

You're using a corrupted mod to increase your power at the cost of efficiency. You're getting twice as many goons, and they are costing you 55% more per goon. If we start with a budget of 155 energy, we lose 38.75 right off the top to the casting cost. So that's 116.25 to actually sustain the ability.  If you have 15 shadows, they are costing you 15 energy per 5 seconds, with 55% less efficiency, means 23 per 5 seconds.  Solve for X+X/5*23 = 116.25,  and we get 25 seconds.

 

Now let's look at the normal baseline case.  Normally, Shadows of the Dead gives you 7 shadows, for 30 seconds, at a cost of 100 energy.  Under my proposed rework:  You would spend 25 to cast, so we have 75 to sustain. Solve X+X/5*7=75, and we arrive at 53 seconds.  So, a good 70% longer for the same energy cost for the non-corrupted build.  It would get even crazier if you build for Efficiency.  Just adding a Streamline mod gives you 76 seconds of sustain within that same energy budget.

 

But that's kind of a hypothetical problem you're having, since the new Shadows first of all wouldn't lump you with the full cost all the time. You only pay 1 energy/second to keep it running, which isn't much at all. Where you start to pay is when you actually have an army of shadows.  Which means the cost is going to constantly be going down as your monsters die, and going up as you get new ones.  Which brings up the second point:  Because it's a sustained ability, your army is always at full strength provided you keep feeding it energy and bodies.  With your existing Shadows, how often do you wind up with only 1 or 2 Shadows left alive, stuck in a corner, preventing you from casting up a fresh bunch?

 

It's a pretty massive buff in duration and flexibility. Just your specific build isn't currently ideal for it.

[Vaskadar]

Honestly, I'd rather see other powers get changes first. Shadows of the dead only needs an AI change.

[Kirby47]

I like as it is now, i can raise plenty of enemies (blind rage and intensify) and they last quite a while (narrow minded + constituition).

I find it a very usefull ability for defense because it is unlikely that you will be attacked

I think most people prefer Nekros to be focused on Desecrate, and if those people see a Nekros pressing 4 instead of 3, bad things will happen. Which is why most Nekros players don't use narrow minded.

[Charismo]

I think most people prefer Nekros to be focused on Desecrate, and if those people see a Nekros pressing 4 instead of 3, bad things will happen.

 

And with good reason! A Nekros built around desecrate will nearly double your drop rate in any given mission. Want double the resource drops? You can either spend 40 plat and get a booster, or just bring along a Nekros! And boosters can only go so far. Nekros can also get you nearly double the number of mod drops! You can't even pay money for that. (unless you spend plat on mod packs, ha!)

 

So it's no wonder that any time someone suggest that Desecrate is a bit overpowered and is holding Nekros back, they get shot down. What sounds better to you? A Nekros built around using Shadows of the Dead, a lackluster CC that's put to shame by other frames' lesser abilities, or nearly double the drop rate of all items?

 

I don't know what the hell Scott was thinking on that one, cause when the Desecrate carrot is that big, hell will be the raised if Desecrate is ever changed or "nerfed."

Edited May 20, 2014 by Charismo

[Noble_Cactus]

Honestly, I'd rather see other powers get changes first. Shadows of the dead only needs an AI change.

 

I don't think it only needs an AI change, but that's definitely an issue that needs to be addressed. Right now they like to do two things:

 

1. Gang up on a Butcher. All 7 of your shadows. Maybe not always all of them but I've sen it happen more times than not where they'll just converge on one enemy and beat the crap out of him before moving onto the next. That's inefficient minion-ry when you need multiple minions holding off multiple dangerous mobs.

2. Sit around behind walls, fail aggro when an enemy is right behind them, get in the way of you and your team trying to move past them. Basically stand around and be useless about 25% of the time.

 

Those issues would need to be addressed if Shadows were to stay the same as it is now, I agree. But the other big problem with the skill is that it's inefficient because minions cannot follow their master very far. Tenno simply outrun them. The OP's suggestion attempts to solve that, and I've seen other ideas of moving the Raise Dead component entirely and turning Shadows into a kind of Null Star that sent out specters or ghosts to compliment Nekros being mobile. Raising Dead should be an on-the-spot thing. I've suggested in the past that Enemies killed by or affliced with Soul Punch could be raised as minions. Perhaps that could work here somewhere as well?