Everything Wrong With The Torid

[SmokinDice]

Welcome Community and hopefully DE,

My english may not be perfect but I still hope you'll understand me :)

 

First of all, I always liked the concept of DoT (damage over time), I love Saryn and I even love the Acrid (even though it is not God-Tier anymore), I still think its fine. And I would be really happy to see the Torid become a, at least, somewhat viable weapon.

In a fast-paced game like Warframe where things die really fast either trough high base damage weapons in 1-2 shots or through high firerate weapons in 1-2 seconds, DoT already is in a disadvantage.

And therefore I dont understand why Torid hasn't been looked at for so long. It has a great concept that is imo poorly executed and even more so compared to some other weapons that do almost the same thing but harder..better..faster..stronger!

 

Let me do it like the Warframe Wiki and start with the advantages and disadvantages before I get into a more detailed monologue

for the fun of it, lets start with the disadvantages:

 

Disadvantages:

• Small magazine size. (5 rounds)
  
• Slow fire rate. (1 round/sec)
  
• slow reload time. (3 sec)
  
• Slow projectile speed combined with heavy arcing.
  
• Poison Cloud has a really small AoE (like ~2 meters)
  
• Requires the enemy to stay in the gas cloud for maximum effect.
  
• The "poison cloud" only deals  20 Toxindamage per second instead of the usual 50% weapon damage like other toxins
  
• Can't crit (not really an issue, but a fact)
  

 

The first 3 points make it really similar to both the Ogris and the Penta. But here is the thing, both the Ogris aswell as the Penta KILL STUFF. Not even are they more effective in what they do (have more base damage and a larger AoE), they both have lower reload time (ogris 2sec/penta 2.5sec) and apply there damage instantly. So even if the O and P (OP, lololol) have the same disadvantage they get way more out of their 5 rounds than the Torid.

 

Advantages:

• Has a somewhat good damage on a direct hit. (still less then OandP)
  
• Grenades Sticks to allies and enemies.
  
• The "poison cloud" is Stackable.
  
• Almost no recoil.
  
• "perfect" accuracy (not really because of the heavy arcing)
  
• Infinite ammo. (540 rounds)
  
• Does not require charging.
  
• Does not inflict self-damage, unlike the Ogris or Penta.
  
• Silent (I dont caaare, lalala)
  

 

Let me crush all the advantages real quick and tell you why they dont help the weapon..

The On-Hit Damage shouldn't be the core of the weapon, but I get to that in a second.

Its nice that the "spore" sticks to enemys and that the poison cloud is stackable, but if the cloud is so small and deals so little damage than all that wont help either.

I dont need infinite ammo when the weapons deals no damage...

no damage to self.. if it would, I wouldn't even bother writing all this..

Silent? I dont caaare, lalala!

 

 

 

Breakdown:

 

The Torid should be considered an AoE weapon, because that is what makes it special and sets it apart from a regular weapon. The "posion cloud" is what bothers me the most, atm the Torid feels like a Sniper with a slow traveling, heavy arcing Projectile, that is really hard to hit an enemy with and has a cool looking lightning effect at the end.. (hint hint: the cloud is the lightning effect....)

The damage should come from the cloud itself and not from the projectile (if you happen to hit an enemy with it, which is really unlikely..).

The cloud only deals 20 Toxin damage per second, Why? Why doesn't it function like normal Toxin which deals 50% of your weapons base damage per tick (9 ticks in 8 seconds), and either give it 100% proc to inflict the toxin debuff or increase the radius of the poison cloud by ALOT (like 5 meters). Which still wont make it better than Ogris or Penta.

 

You could also change the damage type of the Torid and make it the first weapon to deal  Gas Damage.  as Gas is a more or less bad damage type since it has really restricted possibilities for damage type combinations, thus making the damage type weaker while simultaneously buffing its cloud damage and/or radius, although it would be awesome against Corpus combined with magnetic.

(Gas damage's unique status effect is a Toxin AoE that deals 50% of your weapon or power's base damage in a small area around the affected enemy with a 100% status chance. As such, enemies damaged by this Toxin burst will also be affected by a Toxin DoT that inflicts 50% of the AoE damage per tick.)

 

Okay, this shall be enough for the moment, I would go as far as to say the Torid is the worst weapon in Warframe atm, considering the rank and cost to build it and the reward you get from it, it is not even fun playing with it as you barely see any high numbers (or numbers at all when your teammates kill everthing with their ogris and soma).

 

I hope to get some responses and that something is going to change about the Torid.

Sorry for the wall of text, have a nice day in Warframe.

 

/Smoky

Edited May 19, 2014 by SmokinDice

[MSD3000]

The Torid has pretty much been awful since it was released. It always did more damage to yourself than the enemy, at least until they took self damage away from it. I'm really not sure why they bothered updating the artwork on it, other than to make the Ogris more unique.

 

It's pretty much relegated to the small pile of "mostly harmless" weapons that Warframe has; such as the Tigris, Spectra, Ankyros, or any whip.

 

DE may be working on fixing it, but I doubt its a high priority, since new weapons and items are what generate money.

[KIREEK]

I use it only for 1 specific job, i must say it excells at that specific job and no matter how long i did this, i never found a point where it was strugling.

 

Endless defense against infested, i use a vortex build and then i stack clouds that deal gas damage, everything dies as soon they barely touch the clouds,  eventually i deal damage with the projectiles, but honestly it doesn't matter, enemies still die.

Maybe one day i might try and fight lvl 500 enemies and check how long it takes, but atleast for 200 levels it's fine.

 

As for a mission where you need to run and progress, then it fails, horribly.

 

They have another really good use, but i'm not going to tell what it is.

Edited May 19, 2014 by KIREEKPSO

[Angius]

Weird, I find Torid really enjoyable gun and I have absolutely no problems taking it even to T3 Survivals... On missions like Phobos it has pretty much every enemy on one direct hit, or 2-3 cloud ticks.

[SmokinDice]

 

DE may be working on fixing it, but I doubt its a high priority, since new weapons and items are what generate money.

 

they could very well advertise it as the new Torid 3.0! buy it now for only 275 plat its Useful now!

[MSD3000]

they could very well advertise it as the new Torid 3.0! buy it now for only 275 plat its Useful now!

 

I like the way you think, sir.

[Jubis]

I was about to post about the Torid requiring some mechanic work, and decided to take it to a few Infested Defence missions to see how mods affected it. As it turns out mods do in fact affect the gas cloud, which I think we should all be happy about. However, I do have some suggestions:

 

- The cloud itself seems a bit small. It should be slightly bigger (nothing too crazy). Firestorm should be allowed on the Torid, for those who like even bigger clouds.

- To keep a touch of balance with the above point, the cloud should be self-harming, to bring it in line with the Ogris and Penta. Both are dangerous if not used correctly, and the Torid should be the same. (Especially if Firestorm is allowed to be equipped).

 

I'm now actually pretty tempted to start dumping Forma's on my Torid, it seems like it could be somewhat entertaining for holding points in Defence/Mobile Defence.

[Vargras]

Torid has a good model.

 

The rest of it is awful.

[Paradoxbomb]

I really wanted love the Torid, but I just couldn't, for a weapon that should excel in area denial it's stats make it absolutely horrible for setting up a defensive perimeter, and even if you do get out a decent layer of toxic gas it barely does any damage. Loki and Vauban are the only two frames that can make this weapon decent (not that niche weapons are bad, but the Torid is a bit too niche for its requirements).

 

A significant boost to magazine, fire rate, and reload would do the Torid a world of justice, as well as making the poison cloud scale better as you stated. If they really wanted to add more radical change it would be nice if it had a charge function, where charging a shot increases the damage and radius of a cloud at the cost of more ammo. But I think just improving the utility and DoT would be enough to at least make it worth the Clan research.

[Jubis]

If they really wanted to add more radical change it would be nice if it had a charge function, where charging a shot increases the damage and radius of a cloud at the cost of more ammo. But I think just improving the utility and DoT would be enough to at least make it worth the Clan research.

I dunno I think that simply increasing the cloud size (and perhaps the firerate/mag size) would be sufficient, by doing that you're already increasing potential aoe damage. During my quick test earlier I used a potato'd but 0-Forma Torid (60 mod points total) and threw on a rank 10 Serration, rank 8 Heavy Caliber, and 3 elemental mods which ended up giving the following stats: 1080 Heat, 3180 Corrosive (4260 total). By comparison my 8-Forma Ogris (120 potential mod point total) is doing 4940 Blast, 7410 Heat, 8892 Corrosive (21242 total). It's a stupid amount of damage and what makes it more entertaining is the blast radius (I don't have Firestorm on that particular build).

 

Seeing as the base damage is 300 Toxin and ticks for 20, the above numbers would suggest it ticks for at least 10 times the damage before damage bonuses to flesh/armor/etc. Even higher if you start throwing Forma into it.

 

In either case, when fired at Infested, it decimates them pretty quickly. With enough Formas, it'll be comparable to the Ogris/Penta. The only problem being that the gas cloud is ridiculously tiny.

 

 

Increase the cloud size, fire rate, maybe the mag size.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Jubis

[SmokinDice]

just want to mention real quick that DE also secretly buffed the miter to fire 3 sawblades, basically tripling it's damage..

[Angius]

just want to mention real quick that DE also secretly buffed the miter to fire 3 sawblades, basically tripling it's damage..

It's a bug, not a buff. Same goes for weapons like Drakgoon or bows sometimes. DE messed up charge weapons while implementing Angstrum mechanics.

[00zau]

Torid just needs a better area. It does pretty good damage fully modded, and with both dual proc mods on it procs a lot as well (hello, blast + corrosive or radiation + toxin). The issue is a 5 shot magazine, a low rate of fire, and a pitiful gas cloud AoE. Give it a latron+ sized clip and fire-rate and you can spam rounds everywhere or give it around a 5m radius AoE so you can cover more area with one round (or do both). If fire-rate goes up, impact damage might need to go down.

[Jubis]

If fire-rate goes up, impact damage might need to go down.

 

lol inb4 Underslung nade launcher with no explosion. Skillshots anyone? :p

 

Apologies for derail, but it does seem like more people are in favour of an increased AoE on the Torid's gas cloud.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Jubis