Volatile Runners: A Little Bit Irrelevent?

[Liminal]

IMO Volatile Runners should deal a Lot (with capital "HOLY SH**") more damage, but they should be extremely fragile (yes even more than now).

I'm not really behind giving them knockdown again though, it would only increase frustration and chain CC that leads to inevitable death.

[Tsukinoki]

@Eurhetemec
I completely disagree with the stagger.

I remember the time when volatile runners could infinetly stagger you and there was absolutely nothing you could ever hope to do about it.  All you could do is stand there and move your hands away from the mouse and keyboard as you saw runners just run up and keep you staggered while everything else killed you.

We need less stagger/stun-locks that are never ending in this game.  Or at least mechanics in place that prevent pema-staggers/perma-stuns from happening before we think of adding even more units with that capability.

I would prefer a real challenge, not a cheap "You cant do anything but watch yourself die!" moment.
Its like when Phorrid knocks you back into a corner and then keeps doing the knock-back move so that you cant fight back or do anything at all except hope that it does its roar or some other move so that you at least have a chance to do *something*.
There is nothing fun or challenging about the game taking away all control from the player for indefinite periods of time.

They removed the guarenteed stagger for a good reason and a lot of people would hate to see it come back.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Liminal]

They removed the guarenteed stagger for a good reason and a lot of people would hate to see it come back.

Word.

 

Besides, Leapers already fill the role of "you didn't pay attention now you get knocked down".

[Tsukinoki]

@The_Doc
Exactly.

And the leapers at least have a long enough wind-up period that if you're hit by their attack it is nearly always your mistake.  Unlike the extra-fast windup for the volatile runners exploding....even if they are stunned/frozen/knocked-down, meaning that often there was nothing you could do to even hope to avoid it.
And it helps that the leapers aren't as common as mud like the runners usually tend to be.

That's an example of a good knockdown IMO:
-Gives you plenty of warning
-Is avoidable if you pay attention
-Not the most common unit
-Has proper hitboxes
-Wont execute if the leaper is stunned/frozen/knocked-down

[Eurhetemec]

They removed the guarenteed stagger for a good reason and a lot of people would hate to see it come back.

 

Agreed. With much reduced Volatile numbers this would be a non-issue, though. They chained it because they came like five at a time. If they were more like one every few enemies, they couldn't do that.

[Landwalrus]

As I'm sure most of you are aware we will be getting some shiny new enemies to unload magazine after magazine into, something I'm pretty excited about (as are many of us). All of the submissions have been pretty amazing and it seems everyone is excited about the potential new additions to the infested, which have needed some variety and a bit of work for a long time now. This got me thinking about something I've thought about for a long time.

 

Volatile Runners. Considering they are an enemy type that sacrifices themselves to deal damage I feel like the damage they deal is painfully underwhelming, even at the higher levels. I'm not sure how many times this has been brought up (if at all) but I think the damage VRs are capable of inflicting should be significantly buffed. Maybe not enough to oneshot a frame with a 1000+ Shields, but enough to actually make them a significant threat and synergise well with the rest of the infested swarm.

 

Heres a few ideas beyond just increasing initial damage:

- High chance of inflicting status effects. Possibly slash or toxin (seems to make sense seeing as you are essentially being showered in high velocity fragments of bone and infected tissue)

-Player knock down on detonation. Though not entirely sure another infested unit capable of chaining knock downs is needed. 

- An increase in the blast radius. As it is you can very easily avoid taking any damage by side stepping slowly away by the time they detonate.

-Reduce the time it takes for VRs to actually explode.

 

These are just a few suggestions which could bring up some problems. But suggestions nonetheless. It would be nice to see the infested become more of a threat because as they are now they are easily the least threatening faction in the game. The only significant danger they posses is toxic ancients (which is minimal). Other then that assuming you don't have the misfortune of getting stuck in a corner or chain knock downed by ancients (which is fairly easy to avoid barring surprise attacks) you're golden. Obviously things will progress but heres my two cents in regard to a minor change that could be made to the current infested line up. One step at a time.

 

Feel free to discuss.

I remember when all infested were the bane of all players.

[StinkyPygmy]

I don't think increasing the damage would be smart - the problem is that with strong weapons, it's fairly trivial to keep them away, but with weak weapons (as all starting players have), they're significantly hard to kill before they reach you, so that would really cream newer players and people on lower level frames and so on.

 

Staggers, knockdowns or knockbacks would be better - yes, they already have a lot of these, but that avoids just making Volatiles the bane of lower-level players. They'd certainly need to spawn less of them, either way.

Well obviously the damage would scale with the current lvl of the node. Its just as they are now even on the high 30-40s you can pretty much stand there are watch VRs run up and explode or all over you. Frame shield and health dependent of course but the damage they deal amounts to nothing significant even in combination with other infested. Plus, easy to avoid, too easy almost so I doubt new players would have too hard a time. Not a game breaking hard time at least. Scale the damage appropriately and boom, something actually worth avoiding taking damage from.

 

@Eurhetemec

I completely disagree with the stagger.

I remember the time when volatile runners could infinetly stagger you and there was absolutely nothing you could ever hope to do about it.  All you could do is stand there and move your hands away from the mouse and keyboard as you saw runners just run up and keep you staggered while everything else killed you.

We need less stagger/stun-locks that are never ending in this game.  Or at least mechanics in place that prevent pema-staggers/perma-stuns from happening before we think of adding even more units with that capability.

I would prefer a real challenge, not a cheap "You cant do anything but watch yourself die!" moment.

Its like when Phorrid knocks you back into a corner and then keeps doing the knock-back move so that you cant fight back or do anything at all except hope that it does its roar or some other move so that you at least have a chance to do *something*.

There is nothing fun or challenging about the game taking away all control from the player for indefinite periods of time.

They removed the guarenteed stagger for a good reason and a lot of people would hate to see it come back.

I agree for the most part. The infested already has a decent amount of knockdown and staggering capable units between ancients and leapers. Both of which are easily avoidable if your paying attention and don't slip up. I still very much like the idea of scaling up the damage so it at the very least isnt laughable, making it slightly harder to avoid the blast. Reduce the numbers because right now its very easy to get an exterm mission and have half of the enemies be VRs, which if your lazy, leaves you with the option of standing there and eating a sandwich while most of the work is done for you.

[taiiat]

here's a thought.

Viral Damage is definitely a plus, keeping their numbers in check but still having a good number of them is definitely a plus.

 

and now, mayhaps shooting them in the head (and subsequently killing them in the head), would be a guaranteed death without exploding.

even if in the middle of the exploding animation, if killed from a shot to the head, cancel the explode.

 

inversely now, if killed from a shot to the torso, always explode. (not 100% sure on this one).

[StinkyPygmy]

^^^ make it happen.

[CY13ERPUNK]

If i recall correctly, volatile runners used to ignore shields with their explosion and cause a guaranteed stagger.

Creates a great opening for Ancients to come in for the kill.

 

yep

 

BRING THIS BACK!

[nefrai]

If i recall correctly, volatile runners used to ignore shields with their explosion and cause a guaranteed stagger.

Creates a great opening for Ancients to come in for the kill.

That's what I remember. I used to hate volatile runners, because they ALWAYS staggered me, and you get 5 of them exploding on you at once...they were actually a pain back then, and one of the few mobs that made you prefer melee, because usually melee would kill them and they wouldn't explode - for some reason, they almost always exploded when you shot them, though (at least for me). The crawlers hurt pretty good back then as well. I've noticed that I no longer even think about the runners, and they are about as scary as a toddler...I didn't realize how pronounced the change was though, until I saw this thread with other people noticing it.

[CY13ERPUNK]

That's what I remember. I used to hate volatile runners, because they ALWAYS staggered me, and you get 5 of them exploding on you at once...they were actually a pain back then, and one of the few mobs that made you prefer melee, because usually melee would kill them and they wouldn't explode - for some reason, they almost always exploded when you shot them, though (at least for me). The crawlers hurt pretty good back then as well. I've noticed that I no longer even think about the runners, and they are about as scary as a toddler...I didn't realize how pronounced the change was though, until I saw this thread with other people noticing it.

 

it kind of funny/sad really, because i remember back when the infested were a truly dangerous faction to play against

 

but after the addition of defense missions to the game, ppl complained non-stop about how OP the infested were, and they got nerfed over and over and over until they were just a joke, harmless unless in melee and even then not deadly enough (and since there were several frames with abilities to keep them out of melee range indefinitely, viola, easy-mode infested defense missions =[ )

 

I would REALLY like to see the infested get some more lethality back in their units, i know we are getting some more new infested types soon, but i would also like the old units to get some of their teeth back

[LovecraftianDreamer]

Gotta agree with OP on this one, I have personally run through a swarm of level 30+ Volatile Runners in a Valkyr (lowest current base shields in the game, and I didn't bother to modify them any) and barely took any damage at all, I just ran past them and let them kill themselves pointlessly, or if I'm running with my Orthos Prime I just kinda hack through them like a weedwhacker and move on.  I think a wider radius and an 75% explosive proc (similar to volatile barrels) would be enough to make them a more realistic threat on the battlefield, as apposed to Somafodder for anyone who knows how to take two steps back.  I don't think a viral proc is necessary, I already deal with enough of that bullS#&$ from the new infested Ospreys, who are at best a waste of ammo, and at worst completely friggin' invincible depending on what weapons you are carrying at the time.  Volatile runners need some love from DE, and the infested faction as a whole could definately use some shuffling about.  Also as a side note, I hate Ancient Disruptors with a violent burning passion.