May 23Rd: Community Hot Topics!

[Larsurus]

Vay Hek dilemma; locking content behind steep grindwalls results in players not giving a damn. Content partially wasted.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/230016-who-else-has-never-fought-the-new-vay-hek-key-collecting-based-on-rng-is-dull/#entry2664330

[(PSN)Shadow_Of_Hunhow]

This stuff makes me a very happy Tenno, I hope that with account migration comes a synchronized update, which means PC won't be five updates ahead! :D Plus the Valkyr rework looks absolutely amazing, and I can't wait to see my already 3-forma'd Valk in action one this comes!

[Mak_Gohae]

’Hardest’missions are too Easy

The introduction of T4 keys is almost certain, but the release date is still tentative. One of the issues with releasing T4 keys is figuring out how to scale enemies so that they are challenging for experienced players but not too restrictive for players who might not have optimized gear. We discussed this at length on the couch today, which led us down a path of all the possible problems and the fundamental point that ‘more armor/health’ doesn’t necessarily mean more difficulty. An important distinction! 

 

 

 

If you are going to make a new difficulty actually make a new difficulty. That means you cant have the enemies just have more health and hit harder because THAT leads to reliance on mods. And even without that once the patterns of what's best is learned tactics will be develop to counter that health and damage. Since they are only two factors a solution should come out quickly.

 

What you need to do to have a new difficulty is add all that stuff that people complain about to get rid of quickly, aka CHALLENGES. Make do T4 is harder to move around there is a larger drain of stamina, aka bring back that tuned stamina you took away in seconds. Bring back the light traps, but instead make them into some sort of mechanical eye that opens and closes so people dont get all goofy about the concept. Tune down the damage of the Seeker and give them back the zapper balls. That stuff creates challenge because it has you engaged most of the time.

 

And you cannot be afraid to have some people who cant freely waltz into the hardest content. If you want to have everyone to be able to participate in the hardest difficulty it's not he hardest difficulty, it's just a new ride in the park. And i am not talking about min/maxing here. The most difficult area should be the most difficult area ( i know, right?) and it should be something people work their way to. I know you want everyone to be able to play everything ASAP but if you are going to do that then dont call this a new difficulty .

 

Maybe add different levels to the new T4? 4.1,4.2, 4.3, the most difficult easiest mission, the most difficult medium mission, the most difficult most difficult mission. That way most people can at least try this new ride.

 

 

 

 

Weak/Useless Mods

We know, we know; some mods are clearly weaker than others. Resistance mods, for example, have very limited use, and Status Chance mods aren’t much better. There has been a general community demand for Mod rebalancing, and we hope to get this prioritized and reviewed in some way with dev.

 

 

The problem with the Res mods is that there are way too few occasions where they are needed so much that they should be put on. Putting a Res mod because X thing may happen once is a bit too much to ask. You either need to pump up the number of occasions that Res mod can be put to use, way more fire, ice, elec, or i guess just pump up the stats again.  Maybe have the Res mod also give you a damage bonus for that element on your Warframe abilities? Since there is a complain about damaging abilities falling off hard on the higher levels.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Mak_Gohae

[DarknightK]

The problem with Melee 2.0 is that:

 

1) Stances do not deliver too much diversity

At best, stances may change the default combo and may add a branch (or two, or three) of another combo. While useful as these are, other aspects such as the Wall Attack, Slide Attack, Jump Attack, and so on remain bland and unchanged. Instead of having the default knee slide for Flailing Branch (for example), one could press the melee button (E) right after to propel themselves forwards using their Staff (much like one of the combos in Crashing Forest).

 

2) Among diversity, there is generally no diversity between attack intensity

All weapons are still "Spam E to win". As Steve mentioned in the livestream, combos are not entirely as rewarding as spamming E. In the case of Decisive Judgement, which was meant to be an "AoE" stance, it barely delivers what is expected from it when compared to the original stance and Tranquil Cleave. Even its pause combo seemingly fails to bring enough "AoE" feel to the stance combos.

 

Furthermore, with the removal of Charge (Heavy) attacks, weapon's don't really have a way of executing powerful strikes when needed. Instead, we're forced to rely on light attacks, which really skips out on the potential for integrated heavy combos and the like. When Melee 2.0 was advertised, many players thought that Heavy attacks would be getting their own combo chains, and with possible integration with light attacks. This was a huge let-down to many members of the community (and it still is!)

 

 

So please, take into consideration those two things and keep working towards Melee 2.5. I'm still finding myself "spam E to win". Because that's all there is to it now.

[(PSN)Blitz5]

One point to focus on for mods is the large gap for certain mod slots. For example, Warframes only have about 5 mods they can put in the V slot (all but one of which are rares), while most guns can only put Status or Cold in a D polarity (barring a Corrupted mod).

It would be amazing to have some more diversity in those fields, without giving players a very gimmicky and niche mod to fill the slot (looking at you, Provoked).

 

Part of the reason Status mods have such low standing is because of how weak the solo-stat mods are. You look at the dual stat mods and you can get 40-60% status at max rank plus elements or crit or reload speed, while Sure Shot and its cohorts only get to 15% (which on most weapons is less than 2% higher chance per hit to get that proc). 

 

As for Oberon, the key point to make with him is that he is not Trinity. Renewal will always be compared to Trinity, and unfavorably in its current state because of its slow effect and flat healing cap. If he is a paladin as Scott insists, he should provide some kind of mitigation, something to feel that he is not just patching up but PROTECTING his allies; this is especially feasible now that Blessing focuses on recovery rather than being the proactive catch-all immunity spell.

He should be a strong balance between defense and offense - but he shouldn't feel like you sacrifice one for the other, either. Currently, he feels like a mash-up of several other frames (bits of Ember, Trinity and Nekros sprinkled throughout) without the CC or high-scaling defensive skills that made them work, rather than something all his own like his successors. He needs a niche that will make people say "it's more rewarding to play Oberon (even just for this purpose) than X frame"; being a jack-of-all-trades of his caliber doesn't pay off standing in a line with the likes of Rhino, Hydroid, Zephyr or Volt (and even they have niches).

Preferably one that actually scales well into late-game content, unlike Reckoning's "chance to spawn health on a kill."

Any paladin should have some defense tactic.. Im aware he uses holy powers, but I feel he's more of a druid anyhow. Renewal SHOULD have some kind of either damage mitigation or damage reduction while active.

[Tr1ples1xer]

Miter

 As one Tenno astutely asked, ‘What’s the point of shooting sawblades if they bounce off enemies like plastic?’. 

 

 

Oh hey that was me ! thank you, lets hope miter gibs like crazy when they change it :D

[Seele]

Looking forward to all upcoming updates! Very happy to see some interest expressed in permanently buffing the Miter.

That said there is one fairly pressing issue that has gone without address for some time.

Any word on Boar, Ether Daggers, Gorgon, Machete, and Snipetron being reintegrated? Preferably in a way that is not the daily login reward roll?

[(PSN)Forge1x]

will we see dual katanas anytime soon?

[Sirabot]

T4 keys?

No
No

No

No

No

No

No

No
NO.

[Xamuswing]

Through both intensive experience as well as the new player experience and observation, Saryn offers nothing to have players interested in playing her.

 

I must disagree with you there. #BigBootyWarframes

 

Seriously though, she deserves some attention in her underperformed state to literally everyone else. She's one of my least favorite frames gameplay wise and probably the weakest in the game currently. That or Ember with little to offer late game. DE must hate the big booty frames or something.

[(PSN)dudz20]

How about an auction house or an auction menu inside your ship?

[gir240]

when are specters going to be able to use mods and have better AI?

[Archwizard]

Any paladin should have some defense tactic.. Im aware he uses holy powers, but I feel he's more of a druid anyhow. Renewal SHOULD have some kind of either damage mitigation or damage reduction while active.

 

The problem with that being, Renewal gets shorter the more you improve it. Adding mitigation to it means an upgrade will make the effect more situational.

 

Personally, I think they should scrap Renewal and give Hallowed Ground a healing effect for allies standing in it; Hallowed Ground has higher output, scales linearly, and STACKS, so you can boost your burst healing to high levels (ie the ~1400 health cap your Ash, Zephyr and Saryn buddies have, rather than the 200 health of a half-leveled Excalibur) as needed... provided you have the energy, timing, positioning (to maximize your mobility while healing), and range.

Granting that a paladin should be a close-range combatant anyway.

Bonus points, since putting the healing in the environment would eliminate wasting the effect via early dispersion while remaining somewhat druidic, just to keep the line blurred.

 

THEN there would be space for an impressive standalone party-mitigation skill.

 

Again, just one opinion.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Archwizard

[TC-Guardian]

Thanks for the update, certainly shows how much is going on.

[AudioRejectz]

Finally account migration, will be good to finally come back to the game

[Tazmanyak]

 

 

’Hardest’missions are too Easy

The introduction of T4 keys is almost certain, but the release date is still tentative. One of the issues with releasing T4 keys is figuring out how to scale enemies so that they are challenging for experienced players but not too restrictive for players who might not have optimized gear. We discussed this at length on the couch today, which led us down a path of all the possible problems and the fundamental point that ‘more armor/health’ doesn’t necessarily mean more difficulty. An important distinction! 

 

Miter

Scott has commented that he is going to look into making this a fun and lethal weapon. We regret the bug, but we don’t want to ruin the ‘fun’ of what it brought. As one Tenno astutely asked, ‘What’s the point of shooting sawblades if they bounce off enemies like plastic?’. 

 

Weak/Useless Mods

We know, we know; some mods are clearly weaker than others. Resistance mods, for example, have very limited use, and Status Chance mods aren’t much better. There has been a general community demand for Mod rebalancing, and we hope to get this prioritized and reviewed in some way with dev. 

 

point by point, my personal view:

T4 Void: If you offer T4 level in the void, you have to make it balanced for experienced players in mind! Dont care about beginers and non-optimized!
if it is balanced for experienced, it has to be quite hard for others. But you also have to TOTALLY change the way the prime stuff is obtainable in void! You have to Tier the primes!

T1 stuff should only drop in T1 void, T2 in T2, T3 in T3, and Top tier T4 in ... yes ... T4!

How to create correct tables on prime tiers? Well it's up to you but ... with frames as examples: Mag = T2, Rhino = T3, Ember = T3

Power must be the main argument for picking up tier.

 

Miter: This baby needs some love Tons of Love!

Sold mine a few weeks ago, was no longer hoping for a balance fix ... seems i will refarm the components :)

And pease, consider balancing more weapins ... dont you have any sort of statistics? Cant you see what weapons are most played, and the least?

Cant you create dedicated topics to ask for the reasons?

 

Weak/Useless Mods: Well, it seems we have to be very very very patient ... everything will come ... one day. Disapointing you have to wait 1 year before letting us know you plan on doing something :(

[K_Shiro]

Melee 2.0 Aftermath

 

The Melee systems greatest need is still a proper key-registration/reaction to button presses. The current mechanic where you have to take meticulous care in pressing the button the exact number of times you need and you have no real means to properly cancel a melee attack if you messed up or the enemy stepped to far away or the enemy got kicked away or the enemy has already died.... you get it. You are just slashing air until the game allows you to move along. It makes combos harder to achieve too. No other game (with proper melee system) uses such an astonishingly annoying mechanic.

 

Please dear DE, make it something like this:

 

...

Just for better clarity I've tried to rephrase the melee mechanic I'm so hell bent on - instead of the current one where you frequently end up being unable to stop slashing air while the enemy is already meters away:

- You press key to initiate attack (or to charge heavy strike if we want that back - wouldn't be bad).

- Attack commences (or attack commences when you release the key that you held to charge your heavy strike).

- While the attack animation is played, you press the key down again (after releasing it once).

- When the animation ends, if you are still holding the key, either the next attack starts or the next heavy-attack charge up period (if there is such).

 

Even if you press the button a hundred times during the original attack animation, as long as you are not holding it at the end of it, there will be no following attacks right away thus no "I can't stop slashing!" problems yet we still have a way to chain attacks one after another fluidly in a precise manner.

 

Seriously, this system was fine in closed beta/alpha stages but... it's an embarassment now. With the big hype around Melee 2.0, such a basic mechanic should have been updated long ago.

 

Those disagreeing, please post your argument somewhere around here - though I haven't found anyone disagreeing yet.

 

’Hardest’missions are too Easy

 

Not so long ago I've made a post about a possible idea of missions providing challenge to both weak and stronger players, a form of escalation. Plain and simple the more you achieve the higher the reward becomes and the more challenging the mission itself proves to be.

- Like and extermination mission where you don't have a "maximum" number of enemies, you have X enemy to kill for minimal completion, and higher amounts for higher stages of completion, all providing some extra reward (even if it's only double credits reward). The enemies become more aggressive/stronger after every stage.

- Sabotage missions having more targets, you have to do 2 but you can do 6 and enemies get stronger/more vengeful after every successfully sabotaged objective.

- Mobile defenses having you defend the objective as usual but after the minimal completion, you can do more but then you are needed to defend 2 computers at the same time (not far away), then 3 etc.

- Capture missions... well, I don't think that needs too much explanation. The minimally needed amount is pretty much undefended but later on the capturee would have designated body guards trying to hinder you :D

 

I think it's not that hard to understand so I will stop with meaninglessly making it more complicated here :D

 

Personally I detest the idea of T4 keys. It seems like an "easy way out" for making missions more challenging (since it would not affect normal missions, it's not even a solution for that) and help with the droptable dilution (T4 key missions' droptables will fill up eventually so it's just a temporary solution for that - already touched on possible solutions here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/79196-concepts-of-mine-consumables-merchant-gambler-and-void-cause-i-like-that/#entry863293 here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/225912-may-2nd-community-hot-topics/?view=findpost&p=2636611 and essentially here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/221972-april-25th-community-hot-topics/page-3#entry2587912 ).

 

Weak/Useless Mods

 

And weapon rebalancing, and warframe ability rebalancing... you have your work cut out for you, good luck, may the Floss be with you :D Honestly, I surely don't envy you.

 

Still Hot: Warframe Balancing

 

With the original concept Hysteria was one of the worst possible ultimate skill, in fact dangerous to use and not even close rewarding enough for taking the risk (you have to kill those marked or you risk suffering the gained damage). Even Nekros' ultimate is better when that's practically a washed up version of Chaos (which has more uses and overall better - while having even less cost!).

 

Still Hot: Enemies Of The Tenno Design Project

 

Would be nice to see some elemental damage from enemies, like the Flamer wielding grineer soldiers we all love to hate. For all those resistance cards, we have nothing to use them against. Also, do you intend to introduce Radiation and other resistance cards too or will we have to use 2 cards for such a situation? :) It's getting complicated...

[S.T.M.P.D]

Proxy Wars still hasn't stopped being a thing right?

 

Also, I can't help but feel as though Mods need to specialize a little more. Vitality and Redirection are boosting things that should naturally boost when you rank up, but they fill two slots anyway. So at some point you fill up slots with natural, all-around mods, meaning that you can't put in things like Rage or rarer mods; there's very little motivation to specialize.

 

Steve said he wishes he could put more costly mods in; ones that increase certain stats but take a bite out of others. I endorse this wholly, but they shouldn't only be available for high ranking players who can afford to go to direlects easily. Giving us more motivation to put more oddball mods on our gear would be great.

 

But aside from that, you guys are doing great balancing the craziness of players and keeping them relatively happy. This is a game where everyone's let in on the ground floor. Great work!

[qazxedcv1]

While you're thinking of changing/buffing some mods, would you mind taking a look at North Wind, Shocking Touch, and Deep Freeze, which are 60% element at max when all the other pure element mods are 90%?

[Vanwolfster]

i'm on the design council and i don't have permission to see it either

Actually I have seen the art design for the Juggernaut and I am not on the design team. I went to Google images and found it. By the way it looks amazing.

this is the tinypic code------>[

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/225734-enemies-of-the-tenno-infested-submissions/page-22

Edited May 25, 2014 by Vanwolfster

[(PSN)ZipZapKK47]

Are doing eny updates for the ps4 on warframe 13.0.7 new one event then Tenno dogs then armor rocket gun electr sword then update 14.0.0 ps4 for Warframe can you do that and ship ...??? Where's update on warframe for the ps4 so far 13.0.7 is the only one for the ps4

[Drejzer]

Will we be able to equip two different melee weapons?

I mean like have Obex\Kogake in melee slot and Nikana in Primary/Secondary slot, for example.

[Casardis]

Only 1 wins, but that doesn't mean the other concepts will be tossed away. 

 

That sounds nice, but let's say under the circumstances that you guys pick another submission as a big inspiration to make a new unit, will the original concept artist receive a compensation, like the person who made Zephyr did?

 

It would be unfair if they don't get anything just because they haven't won the contest, even if their idea ends up taken by DE for a future time.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Casardis

[Garuger]

No shotgun update as you had mention in previous hot topic?

[Xylia]

@Vanwolfster:

 

FINALLY someone posted something other than a stupid Photobucket link.

 

I hate Photobucket. If you don't un-block ads/allow ALL scripts (including adserve ones), you can't see any pics whatsoever at all and I simply refuse to do that.