I Am Telling You We Just Need The Old Switcheroo Here A Few Times...and Boom... Perfection

[Nkomo-Sama]

A wall of text usually indicates free time assumed by both the OP and the reader and does not guarantee to be worth the read.

 

I assume nothing

 

All I ask is

 

Just hear me out...

I have every frame except for Hydroid because Vay Hek is a scalawag who only gives me helmets apparently...these are my 2 cents with the three frames, three powers I take issue with. The rest I really don't mind tbh I think DE is doing a great job so far.

Ember

IF Ember lost fireball and put back in the mighty overheat with all it's glorious attributes in it's place ..(maybe even a teeny tiny speed boost?). she would be as perfect as can be expected...I thought overheat was coming back I could almost swear I read about that a few updates ago...

 

Ash and Frost

IF Frosts' Freeze AND Ashs' teleport** had casting/effect behaviors LIKE Embers' current fireball behavior...OMG...they are DONE.

 

 

(** For my fellow Ash players I am not going to argue against the free aim right now...there are many threads discussing the necessisty/unnecessary nature of that portion of the ability in depth. My take? Classic Want vs.need. I personally think it is cool and unnecessary but if it was limited to say 5-10-20 meters or something...hey whatever +1 for sure. I am more focusing on the TARGETING behavior of that power versus teleports' current miniscule hitscan area. <---NO BUENO...I am also not determined to have the stagger affect more than the targeted player because of smokescreen but if so... so be it....he does appear in a puff of smoke)

 

 

 

That is all I can come up with at the moment the current balancing that is being done is EXCELLENT and after Oberon I look forward to the ideas DE has in mind. These are my 2 cents...chip in?

 

So have at it...am I batspit crazy? Or am I absolutely, unequivocally, undeniably run tell your neighbor correct? Please discuss...

 

 

edit took out the accelerant part that was a typo

Edited May 26, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[VentiGlondi]

I'd rather say Ember needs to lose Fireblast if Overheat is coming back.

[Davoodoo]

Isnt the whole point of balancing these frames to make them not perfect??

If you have perfect frame then you wont need any other so whats the point of having these different ones?? New visuals?? i see no point.

[VKhaun]

Ember has been described, consistently, as a glass cannon. Overheat does not belong on her and was a mistake to start with.

 

If Overheat comes back, it'll probably be a neutral ability that any frame can equip. They have said in devstreams that they can make those now, they just haven't done it yet.

[Nkomo-Sama]

Isnt the whole point of balancing these frames to make them not perfect??

If you have perfect frame then you wont need any other so whats the point of having these different ones?? New visuals?? i see no point.

Fair enough premise. I would say no. The point of balancing a frame in my opinion is to make it a stand alone frame and also a good team player while not making it over powered. You must always remember the solo player. I foresee increased difficulty and better AI in the future. I think making these changes with these three powers would not make them over powered but perfect for both team play and solo. Do you disagree? Please share your opinion.

[Nkomo-Sama]

Ember has been described, consistently, as a glass cannon. Overheat does not belong on her and was a mistake to start with.

 

If Overheat comes back, it'll probably be a neutral ability that any frame can equip. They have said in devstreams that they can make those now, they just haven't done it yet.

I am sure you remember overheat you have been a member long enough. Who described her as a glass cannon the community or the developers? If it was the developers I am assuming they meant by current design. If it was the community then I would say user error. Overheat was a great asset to ember players and toughened her up quite a bit. Made her a much more viable frame. That was when she was DEFINITELY FUN to play with. In my opinion the removal of that power and it's replacement with accelerant was a poor choice. I believe accelerant should have replaced the fireball. Overheat made her cause heat damage to any enemy she touched and reduced damage taken from enemies. Accelerant is just a better fit in my opinion. After playing with her for some time since the change and with others in session I have seen her become a spam 4 player. I swear I am the only Ember player I see using the other powers. I tried using fireblast on a pluto defense and players told me to stop wasting my time. No bueno.

[Azawarau]

I am sure you remember overheat you have been a member long enough. Who described her as a glass cannon the community or the developers? If it was the developers I am assuming they meant by current design. If it was the community then I would say user error. Overheat was a great asset to ember players and toughened her up quite a bit. Made her a much more viable frame. That was when she was DEFINITELY FUN to play with. In my opinion the removal of that power and it's replacement with accelerant was a poor choice. I believe accelerant should have replaced the fireball. Overheat made her cause heat damage to any enemy she touched and reduced damage taken from enemies. Accelerant is just a better fit in my opinion. After playing with her for some time since the change and with others in session I have seen her become a spam 4 player. I swear I am the only Ember player I see using the other powers. I tried using fireblast on a pluto defense and players told me to stop wasting my time. No bueno.

But she is a glass cannon

 

If overheat comes back itd have to be significantly less effective

[Nkomo-Sama]

But she is a glass cannon

 

If overheat comes back itd have to be significantly less effective

Maybe I misunderstand. When I think glass cannon I think high damage dealing low defensive capability. Why is that ok? How about she not be a "glass cannon'? How about she be a balanced frame? In addition when the power is not cast then she has her current stats. Low armor etc... I don't agree that it would have to be less effective. What is the point if it is less effective? Then you have the buff/nerf debates where it needs to be fixed again. Why not have it good from the start? Do you think it would make her overpowered? Her armor is crap. Is her #4 too strong?

[RealPandemonium]

Every frame is more or less a glass cannon unless you sink many mods into durability stats or have a damage reducing ability.  Ember's durability is on the low end but is far from the bottom but this doesn't even matter since most builds only use Redirection and a few hundred points of difference (740 vs 1110,) while significant, is not going to do miracles for your survivability.  Ember's ability to use Accelerant to stun every enemy in a large radius makes her quite safe compared to, say, Banshee.  Ember's ability to put out tremendous amounts of damage with her abilities combines with the safety provided by Accelerant to great effect.  Ember's main problems are that WoF is only really usable if you build around it (and is still inferior to Fire Ball spam even then) and that Fire Blast is a skinny, static defense skill in a game where enemies shoot at you from a distance and are programmed to not walk through it (also made inferior by Fire Ball spam.)

[Nkomo-Sama]

Every frame is more or less a glass cannon unless you sink many mods into durability stats or have a damage reducing ability.  Ember's durability is on the low end but is far from the bottom but this doesn't even matter since most builds only use Redirection and a few hundred points of difference (740 vs 1110,) while significant, is not going to do miracles for your survivability.  Ember's ability to use Accelerant to stun every enemy in a large radius makes her quite safe compared to, say, Banshee.  Ember's ability to put out tremendous amounts of damage with her abilities combines with the safety provided by Accelerant to great effect.  Ember's main problems are that WoF is only really usable if you build around it (and is still inferior to Fire Ball spam even then) and that Fire Blast is a skinny, static defense skill in a game where enemies shoot at you from a distance and are programmed to not walk through it (also made inferior by Fire Ball spam.)

Interesting reference to the fireball spam. I too find it useful but I would trade it for overheat any day. I think I'll get crazy and ask for a small speed buff while Im at it. Perfect with the accelerant stun...ijs..

 

Edit

In addition you are correct in your all frame are essentially glass cannons statement. I overlooked that in my response.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[BloodArmoredApostle]

overheat was life...not a mistake.

[RealPandemonium]

Seriously, you can get some crazy damage on Fire Ball with the Accelerant damage boost, and I think a lot of people overlook that because it's a first ability with seemingly unimpressive base damage. 

 

I typically run a max efficiency/strength build on Ember and most of my caster frames.  This includes max Fleeting Expertise, max Streamline, max Intensify, and rank 2 Blind Rage.  This gives me 75% efficiency (the maximum allowed by the game) as well as 57% bonus power strength. 

 

Using this build and assuming a headshot, an Accelerant-boosted Fireball will deal 27271 damage (before armor/resists or bonuses) on average (I say average because the radial damage only procs 50% of the time) to a single target over 6 seconds. That's not a typo; you will do almost 30k damage for 6 energy (18 if you add the 12 from casting Accelerant,) and this isn't even counting the additional damage done to surrounding enemies.  I have pasted the math I did for this in the spoiler below.

direct hit:
 
628 + 2198 = 2826
 
radial damage maxcase:
 
235.6 + 824.5 = 1059.85
 
radial damage avgcase:
 
235.6 + 412.25 = 647.85
 
average damage:
 
2826 + 647.85 = 3473.85
 
average headshot:
 
3474 * 2 = 6948
 
after accelerant:
 
6948 * 3.925 = 27270.9
 
maxcase after accelerant:
 
(2826 + 1059.85) * 2 * 3.925 = 30503.9225 = 30504

 

The average damage done to surrounding enemies is 5086 for each enemy, also assuming headshots (this is not hard to do since explosions love to headshot in this game, even when aimed at the ground.) 

 

Assuming you hit the head, an Accelerant-boosted Fire Ball using my setup will deal 7045 damage over 6 seconds to a level 30 Napalm.  While the damage is mitigated severely by armor, it is still serviceable vs level 30 Heavy Grineer.  Fire Ball is more effective than most 4 abilities against some of the toughest units in the game, to say nothing of Infested and Corpus; few abilities can even come close to its damage output. 

[Nkomo-Sama]

Sooo the Ash and Frost mention is undeniably a perfect suggestion is what everyone is saying? ( ~_') Duly noted....

[Azawarau]

Maybe I misunderstand. When I think glass cannon I think high damage dealing low defensive capability. Why is that ok? How about she not be a "glass cannon'? How about she be a balanced frame? In addition when the power is not cast then she has her current stats. Low armor etc... I don't agree that it would have to be less effective. What is the point if it is less effective? Then you have the buff/nerf debates where it needs to be fixed again. Why not have it good from the start? Do you think it would make her overpowered? Her armor is crap. Is her #4 too strong?

Her # 4 is fine

 

Her defense is fine

 

If she gets overheat back shell be the next rhino on the debate table

 

I feel like alot of people dont build into her defense enough and reform their playstyle for the frame

 

Itd be like playing Vauban as if he were rhino then saying hes not good enough

[Vargras]

overheat was life...not a mistake.

So it wasn't a mistake and yet they removed it?

 

You sure?

[Break-Away]

Her # 4 is fine

 

Her defense is fine

 

If she gets overheat back shell be the next rhino on the debate table

 

I feel like alot of people dont build into her defense enough and reform their playstyle for the frame

 

Itd be like playing Vauban as if he were rhino then saying hes not good enough

 

 

Her defense is fine? How is low armor, shields, and health fine when the only survivor ability you have only last a few seconds and costs like 30 or 50 energy? (Can't remember, haven't played her in awhile)

Edited May 28, 2014 by Break-Away

[Azawarau]

Her defense is fine? How is low armor, shields, and health fine when the only survivor ability you have only last a few seconds and costs like 30 or 50 energy? (Can't remember, haven't played her in awhile)

I ran with a trinity that died once in 40 minutes of T 3 survival while spamming world on fire like it was her only skill

 

Id say thats someone who knows how to play her (and soft frames in general) very well

 

It balances out the DPS she gets from WOF