De You've Made Changes, Buffs, Nerfs, And Everything Else To Ember, Time For A Fix.

[Silver_Fox75]

I love my Ember, i really do, she's one of the most fun frames i have (which is all but hydroid/Zephyr), burning everything around me to kingdom come, but there's a problem or 2, or 3, or 100.

 

Anything close to high level content rips her apart, no more overheat means a lot less durability, which means for a slow caster with average health/shields, immediate death. And against anything but infested (the easiest and least durable faction) she just isnt truly viable. Grineer armor mitigates the effectivness of most of her abilities (like it does everything else after a while) and corpus shields resistance to fire doesnt help either.

 

In addition 2/4 of her abilities are basically useless, and another very niche based. Fireball and fireblast both need a) buffs, or b) replacements. Accelerant is um decent? Fast stun and bonus damage is good on paper, but only for fire damage, that's what makes it a niche kind of thing. This sychs well with WoF or say an ignis, but not much else. I find it better to just spam WoF again rather than wait. Speaking of, that's her only "good" ability, and even then it's not amazing.

 

I run a fleeting expertise+streamline w/ strech+narrow minded for 12s of burn everything at 25energy. Great when my energy is full, but the fact that i need 2 corrupted mods, and a build utilizing only 1/4 of her abilities doesn't speak well towards her being balanced. I hate to rant but i just think DE should put her on the list yet again and try to make a really good fix.

 

Get rid of fireblast. Change accelerant to affect combined elements including fire damage (radiation,gas,blast) for 50% of the bonus. Return overheat as her 3 now with the same stats as before, just 75 en. Fireball......i really want to say buff, but for the life of me i just cant see how, it's only her 1 so i suppose it isnt in a terrible place. As for WoF i'd say increase damage slightly, and range, leave base duration alone thats about fine, remove target cap, and add a 5m AoE to each fiery explosion, which is more than the current range for the explosions. Also add in ~25%~ DR while it's active, but don't make it affected by power strenth mods so it wont end up being too good of a power (a la temp godmode plus AoE damage). That's all i can really think of and i hate to rant, but i just find the lack of ember well anywhere to be terrible. DE plz

 

-An avid Ember lover/pyromaniac

/Discuss?

Edited May 26, 2014 by Silver_Fox75

[taiiat]

-snip-

 

Edit:

no longer applicable.

Edited May 26, 2014 by taiiat

[Silver_Fox75]

i hate to sound like a jerk but.

 

/discuss indeed.

 

needs some linebreaks and the like.

Made some edits

[(PSN)Doktor_Molotov]

Man I was playing with my Ember not long ago. She can achieve some nice damage per second on infested maps. (796per tick with a max blind rage according to warframe builder which ratchets up to around 1,000 or so, maybe more, due to their weakness IIRC)... but it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense that a frame that's supposed to run in the middle of a bunch of enemies should be so physically weak.

 

I wouldn't even dare bring her into any other maps since if an enemy breathes on her she's dead. I know if I run into a girineer map just touching a little bit of a napalm's fire is going to end me which just seems silly.

 

Really needs a buff to her defences or something, and maybe an innate fire resistance.

Edited May 26, 2014 by (PS4)Doktor_Molotov

[Vargras]

Pretty much every Ember topic nowadays is little more than "Bring Overheat back".

 

It's not coming back because she was never meant to be nigh-invulnerable.

[Silver_Fox75]

Pretty much every Ember topic nowadays is little more than "Bring Overheat back".

 

It's not coming back because she was never meant to be nigh-invulnerable.

I used that as a means to address her lack of durability, a buff to her base stats or a change to fireblast if it's not removed to make gunfire not penerate would be fine as well. But she can't be squishy if she's expected to be in the midst of battle

[(PSN)Doktor_Molotov]

A damage resistance while World on Fire is on would be ideal.

 

And an slight increase in accelarant's range and/or a decrease in casting cost and she might be viable.

 

Hydroid's tentacles do more damage, stuns enemies and he doesn't even have to run out there. There isn't really a reason to play Ember at the moment.

[(PSN)StoneRevolver]

Overheat wouldn't be enough to fix her now. Imo.

Edited May 26, 2014 by (PS4)StoneRevolver

[Silver_Fox75]

Overheat wouldn't be enough to fix her now. Imo.

I think it (or another durability fix) would be a step in the right direction, then of course to address her DPS from WoF and other abilities relative to say MPrime

[ZodiacShinryu]

One should keep in mind this game is designed as a CO-OP game, otherwise half the nerfs (maybe buffs too) on any given warframe would be unnecessary. Ideally your squad mates should compliment your weaknesses, whether or not that is practical or realistic for you is a different story.  Balance is always a moving target as well.  I'm sure DE hasn't "taken" Ember off any list to be looked at.

 

All powers are meant to be niche, they are intended to carry out certain tasks.  While some frames have more rounded abilities or easier to use abilities doesn't particularly mean that any of Embers abilities are broken. I've seen people have lots of fun with fireball and fireblast works well for melee units.

[taiiat]

Anything close to high level content rips her apart, no more overheat means a lot less durability, which means for a slow caster with average health/shields death. And against anything but infested she just isnt truly viable. Grineer armor mitigates the effectivness of most of her abilities and corpus shields arent good either.

 

In addition 2/4 of her abilities are basically useless, and another very niche based. Fireball and fireblast both need a) major buffs, or b) replacements. Accelerant is um decent? Fast stun and bonus damage is good on paper, but only for fire damage.

 

but the fact that i need 2 corrupted mods, and a build utilizing only 1/4 of her abilities doesn't speak well towards her being balanced.

 

Get rid of fireblast? Tone down accelerant and make it her 2. Return overheat as her 3 now with the same stats as before, just 75 en. Fireball......i really want to say buff, but for the life of me i just cant see how. As for WoF i'd say increase damage, and range, leave base duration alone, remove target cap, and add a 5m AoE to each fiery explosion. Also add in ~25%~ DR while it's active but don't make it affected by power strenth mods.

- we don't talk about Overheat. it was a terrible Power. very badly designed.

Ember has 15 Armor, which is kind've dumb. other frames designed to be more of a Glass Cannon (Nova is a primary example), have more Armor. Ember is also supposed to be a bit of a Glass Cannon, but with 100 Health and Shields, apparently is just supposed to be average. so give her Average Armor.

 

- Fireball is a very reasonable Power. it does pretty fair Damage, ignites Enemies, and has a bit of an AoE. it's pretty good considering it's a Slot 1 Power.

Fireblast could use Quality of Life improvements as it's awkward to use(such as the Casting Animation trimmed a bit, and allowing it to be cast while walking and sliding), but i do very much like the Power. that's the Power i like most on Ember.

Accelerant is alright. relatively Cheap stun and Damage boost for the other Powers. not bad. i suppose it could have it's Energy Cost nailed down a little if players feel it's a little underwhelming. 35E if the 50E is considered too expensive to bother.

 

- Ember certainly doesn't fare quite as well against Corpus when dealing with neutral Resistances to start with. and everything that doesn't have a massive bonus against Grineer does badly. but that's because Armor trumps everything else, and is atleast 5x as good to protect the Enemies than Shields or Health are.

 

- Overheat doesn't belong on Ember. at all. and adding Powers immune to Mod Effects is taking steps backwards in Warframe. that's an issue that's been long standing as is, making the entire game cookie cutter, with no actual choices required.

wait, Accelerant already is a Slot 2 power? confus.

doing all of that to World on Fire makes it lose a lot of character and personality. i'd really rather we didn't. other Powers should be as unique as World on Fire is, instead.

also, those Fire Explosions in WoF already have an AoE.

all in all, WoF already does a lot of Damage. however it does it over quite an extended period. there is the possibility that WoF would be more effective if there was a shorter Duration, but a higher Damage per Tick. this would help combat things like Armor better.

Edited May 26, 2014 by taiiat

[(PSN)Doktor_Molotov]

Doesn't world on fire still only target 3 enemies at a time? 

[Xoxx]

Pretty much every Ember topic nowadays is little more than "Bring Overheat back".

 

It's not coming back because she was never meant to be nigh-invulnerable.

Give her tanky skill.

Not supposed to be tank.

If she wasn't supposed to be tanky, why did she get Overheat, then?

[MIRROR_ell]

Pretty much every Ember topic nowadays is little more than "Bring Overheat back".

 

It's not coming back because she was never meant to be nigh-invulnerable.

 

They could implement the v2.0 of Overheat(40% reduction, and add a cap on the DR it provides) to improve her durability.

 

Adding to this discussion especially since my forma-ridden Ember is telling me to do so.

 

Fireball - Only recently did I find the utility of this skill. While the damage is "lackluster" in paper, this skill is not useless. The 100% proc on fire and 50m casting range, and explosion range makes it an optimal CC and sniping skill especially when modded for maximum efficiency. The only thing I can suggest about the improvement of this skill is a Blast proc chance, optimally 100% but 10/20/30/40% scaling with power strength should suffice.

 

Accelerant - One of Ember's best skills; decent range stun and improves fire damage. An increase for Blast damage combination would be reasonable too, seeing that Blast is the closest element next to Fire, but only with a lowered damage multiplier, say, 15/30/45/60% of the Fire multiplier.

 

Fireblast - For the life of me, after using Ember for a good 7-8 months, I still can't find the utility of this skill. Most people swear by it in Infested runs but it seems pretty niche to me in that sense, since opponents only get damaged by touching the ring. I suggest that all opponents touching AND within the ring are damaged and has chance for a Fire proc while constantly inside the ring, say 7.5/15/22.5/30% without removing the initial Fire proc from the blast. Power Range should also affect it.

 

(I'd suggest actually adding a chance for Fireblast of "melt" projectiles but that would make some skills obsolete)

 

WoF - Ember's staple skill. In my opinion, this skill is already pretty good as it is.

 

 

Also, Ember could use an increase in Sprint Speed, say 0.1 or 0.2 increase. There are also some changes that may affect Ember in a good way, such as making the Fire Proc deal less damage, around -25% less, but allow it to deal additional damage based on the opponent's max health, etc.

Edited May 26, 2014 by MIRROR_ell

[MIRROR_ell]

- we don't talk about Overheat. it was a terrible Power. very badly designed.

Ember has 15 Armor, which is kind've dumb. other frames designed to be more of a Glass Cannon (Nova is a primary example), have more Armor. Ember is also supposed to be a bit of a Glass Cannon, but with 100 Health and Shields, apparently is just supposed to be average. so give her Average Armor.

 

- Overheat doesn't belong on Ember. at all. and adding Powers immune to Mod Effects is taking steps backwards in Warframe. that's an issue that's been long standing as is, making the entire game cookie cutter, with no actual choices required.

 

True, Ember is a cannon, but she isn't a glass cannon; 3 of 4 of her skills are PBAoE which requires her to be in the thick of the battle in order to cast. The DR from Overheat 1.0 was too much although it didn't make her invulnerable; the DR from Overheat 2.0 was decent, especially since it did more damage and could have applied Fire proc on touch if it was kept. In any case, Overheat's DR could be returned just not as "Overheat;" they could implement it to some other skill such as WoF and Fireblast as long as the skills are active and that the DR cannot be affected by Power Strength.

 

Giving her average armor and improved Sprint Speed is a step in improving Ember's QoL.

[taiiat]

Also, Ember could use an increase in Sprint Speed, say 0.1 or 0.2 increase. There are also some changes that may affect Ember in a good way, such as making the Fire Proc deal less damage, around -25% less, but allow it to deal additional damage based on the opponent's max health, etc.

- i like the suggestions for the Powers. fits the style and is also useful. no complaints there.

(though, i quite like the idea of Melting projectiles with Fire Blast, perhaps a 5% Chance? and yes, everything should be affected by Mod Effects nowadays, it's just a lot better to do so. if needbe, cap the Melt Chance to 10 or 15%. wouldn't be a primary focus of the power, but it would be a pretty neat thing to have)

 

- a Sprint Speed of 1.1 would probably suffice. 

not sure about changes to Fire Effects for Ember selectively. if you're suggesting it would deal more Damage the lower the Enemy Health is, that sounds neato. 25% at 1% Health and 0% at 100% Health sounds like a fair trend.

 

Overheat's DR could be returned just not as "Overheat;" they could implement it to some other skill such as WoF and Fireblast as long as the skills are active and that the DR cannot be affected by Power Strength.

 

Giving her average armor and improved Sprint Speed is a step in improving Ember's QoL.

- while a mild Damage Resistance in WoF sounds useful, it should be affected by Mod Effects. everything should be. no exceptions. so starting with a mild Resistance, and with the Strength Mods everyone may very well be using, end up as a low/moderate Resistance. i definitely don't want to see more than the area of  30% Resistance though.

 

- Average Armor is a no brainer, and should have pretty much always been this way. and Sprint Speed is a nice convenience improvement. Ember is an extremely offensive frame primarily, so having a decent Sprint Speed does seem appropriate.

[Vargras]

Give her tanky skill.

Not supposed to be tank.

If she wasn't supposed to be tanky, why did she get Overheat, then?

Just because she had it doesn't mean that it fit with their idea of what she should play like. There's been plenty of skills that have been changed or replaced over time.

 

Rhino used to have Radial Blast, after all.

[J-Reyno]

Just gonna throw my 3 cents in here.  Playing with Ember, this is what I desire and would change if I could have my way:

 

 - Increased speed.  I feel her playstyle encourages a lot of movement, and she's a bit on the slow side.

 

 - I'd rename Fire Blast to Fire Ring and make it so that enemies inside of the ring are unable to leave until the duration ends, effectively functioning as CC. 

 

 - Explosions from World on Fire also have an aoe knockdown, giving it some utility once you go beyond the levels where everything dies with the press of a button.  

[Cleesus]

She honestly just needs another total rework, she is worse off than she was before they tried to rework her last time. Part of her problem will always be the fact that fire really is only good for flesh or infested. 

 

Give her a lava/plasma beam move that cant do damage to armor or something. accelerate shouldnt have ever been a skill in the first place. No other frame has to spam a skill just to get basic damage out of thier other skills.

[Vargras]

accelerate shouldnt have ever been a skill in the first place. No other frame has to spam a skill just to get basic damage out of thier other skills.

It's now her single best skill because it is actually capable of scaling.

 

Still want to get rid of it?

[Sunfaiz]

I miss overheat too. But leave it be...Dont bring it back, Fireball is fine the way it is, maybe add the fire cloud-thingy it used to have on impact. Fireblast needs an overhaul IMO. Accerant needs more stun time TBH. As for Stats, she needs more speed or Armour.

 

 

The Major problem with Ember is that there isn't one, There are a bunch of minor ones.

[Moderius]

There is nothing wrong with Fireball. It's a basic ability and it is very effective.

[MIRROR_ell]

Part of her problem will always be the fact that fire really is only good for flesh or infested. 

 

The only problem with Ember is that Fire has bad scaling against anything not flesh...

 

accelerate shouldnt have ever been a skill in the first place. No other frame has to spam a skill just to get basic damage out of thier other skills.

 

... and they gave her the skill to counter just that.

[AlienOvermind]

Fireball is fine. It's first skill and all first skills are not that powerful.

Accelerant is mostly ok. It may need some scaling buff. Maybe it should also empower fire-based damage types by half of fire bonus.

Fireblast is nasty. Terrible, very bad skill. That scripted behavior is really annoyng — enemies moslty stay away, avoiding the damage. And the damage itself is almost non-existenstent too. I suppose it was meant as some CC, but it's really but. Not only at CC, it's bad is everything. Aside from burning people's eyes with OH SO BRIGHT Fireblasts. Ah, I forgot that Tenno have no eyes.

WoF is mostly fine. I dont know if target limit is still present, and if it is, it should go away. Area itself could limit targets just fine.

 

So, the most problematic skill is Fireblast. I thing buffs are useless here. It need to be replaced by some survivability skill. I know Ember is not a tank, but almost any squishy warframe has a skill or two to increase own survivability. Like Flappy-Squishy-Zerpyr's Turbulence skill. The reason for such skill is — she need to be right in the middle of a battle to use WoF effectively. Another option is to give some survivability to WoF and replace Fireblast by something entirely other, like a team buff to add fire damage to all shots.

[Vargras]

Accelerant is mostly ok. It may need some scaling buff. Maybe it should also empower fire-based damage types by half of fire bonus.

Seriously?