Are We Turning Into Spartans?

[Stefanovich]

The sentients are gone.  Extinct.

 

So yeah, sneaky-stabby time is over, and now it's rocket launcher/guided lightning gun time.

 

DE has hinted towards the new faction their working on to be The Sentients and their return.

 

They were called The Sentients because these things were surprisingly sentient.

 

"The least human enemies," and what's less human than Infested, while being surprisingly sentient?

 

Space Robots. Or Space Rocks. Or Space Dandy Aliens.

 

My vote is Space Rocks.

 

/Speculation

[Weird_Stealth]

1. This is a sci-fi game using logic doesn't count, and ninjas wore armor which was light which was shown to you.

 

2. Armor especially in a sci-fi game shouldn't be compared to real life in all aspects. A few comparisons are fine, but when you begin to reason that you begin to lose the uniqueness of the game. We are our own unique entities, the armor doesn't cover the whole body like we are playing a medieval knights and dragons game. Our look is unique regardless.

 

3. Well, I guess that will eventually be worked on, but truth be told. This is a fast paced game so situations change on a whim. It is a choice to stealth for the team which likely they just role in and killing everything lol.

 

4. Stealth again, I am beginning to see some of it come to warframe in the form of rescue missions. It reduced rng, and rewarded players based on their sense of the situation. If there are more motivating factors to stealth a mission, I am sure that it will become seen more than it is now.

^ out of all of the replies, this one explains it the best. 

 

But I will point out to you OP that back in the time of Ninjas, the armor that they wore back then was comparable to Dragon skin Body Armor and their ninja out fits was like wearing a suit made of Kevlar, which back then, that armor had to put up with swords, arrows, primitive rifles/pistols/muskets, and bombs. Ninja's today would most likely wear armor that scale up to modern weapons, IE high powered rifles, effective pistols, and Frag Grenades. Now lets fast forward to the time period of Warframe, there's weapons and explosives that would make Halo Spartan Armor cry, we're space ninjas in full body suits of living metal armor that acts and moves like the skin of our own bodies. I think ninjas are allowed to be wearing armor parts that could be "Heavy" to a normal person, and still be very ninja like, and wield weapons like Rocket Launchers, WHICH btw, ninja rocket launchers was most likely fire work cannons.

 

Don't go comparing Warframe with Halo, Warframe and Halo have very FEW similarities, and that's it, and those similarities don't warrant comparing the two games together. They may both be Sci Fi games, BUT, they don't take place in the same time period, NOR do they even remotely have the same concept as each other.

[Taranis49]

^ out of all of the replies, this one explains it the best. 

 

But I will point out to you OP that back in the time of Ninjas, the armor that they wore back then was comparable to Dragon skin Body Armor and their ninja out fits was like wearing a suit made of Kevlar, which back then, that armor had to put up with swords, arrows, primitive rifles/pistols/muskets, and bombs. Ninja's today would most likely wear armor that scale up to modern weapons, IE high powered rifles, effective pistols, and Frag Grenades. Now lets fast forward to the time period of Warframe, there's weapons and explosives that would make Halo Spartan Armor cry, we're space ninjas in full body suits of living metal armor that acts and moves like the skin of our own bodies. I think ninjas are allowed to be wearing armor parts that could be "Heavy" to a normal person, and still be very ninja like, and wield weapons like Rocket Launchers, WHICH btw, ninja rocket launchers was most likely fire work cannons.

 

Don't go comparing Warframe with Halo, Warframe and Halo have very FEW similarities, and that's it, and those similarities don't warrant comparing the two games together. They may both be Sci Fi games, BUT, they don't take place in the same time period, NOR do they even remotely have the same concept as each other.

 

If by comparable, you mean doesn't actually provide the advertised level of protection or had defective pieces or had an adhesive that fell apart in heat or was heavier than its competitor that'd be correct, otherwise no. :-P

 

And as a general rule, the contemporary Japanese-manufactured stuff didn't really hold up against rifles/pistols/muskets and the like. Note that if they were wealthy or influential enough, a Samurai/Daimyo/etc. in Japan used armor made by the same guys they bought their guns from in the first place during the Nanban trade (hint, the Europeans).

 

In the case of the rifles, I'd consider it highly doubtful that contemporary Ninjas ever encountered them, since even rifled muskets didn't really see military use until around the 1800's when the process could be performed by a fairly unskilled laborer on a machine (prior to that they were the were pretty much solely owned by the extremely rich in Europe, since a master gunsmith had to do the rifling by hand). Particularly since firearms development in Japan itself slowed to a crawl between the 1600's and 1800's under the "chained country" policy until it was forced to trade with the West in the 1850's.

[ValhaHazred]

And as a general rule, the contemporary Japanese-manufactured stuff didn't really hold up against rifles/pistols/muskets and the like. Note that if they were wealthy or influential enough, a Samurai/Daimyo/etc. in Japan used armor made by the same guys they bought their guns from in the first place during the Nanban trade (hint, the Europeans).

 

In the case of the rifles, I'd consider it highly doubtful that contemporary Ninjas ever encountered them, since even rifled muskets didn't really see military use until around the 1800's when the process could be performed by a fairly unskilled laborer on a machine (prior to that they were the were pretty much solely owned by the extremely rich in Europe, since a master gunsmith had to do the rifling by hand). Particularly since firearms development in Japan itself slowed to a crawl between the 1600's and 1800's under the "chained country" policy until it was forced to trade with the West in the 1850's.

 

 

Yeah Japanese steel sucked. That's why they had to fold it and hammer it into a figgin sandwich to make it even slightly usable.

You want good steel? Go Damascus or Viking braided steel.

 

I can't find a source on firearm use among Ninja but they definitely had imported Chinese bombs and mortars from the 13th century on.

Edited May 28, 2014 by ValhaHazred

[Taranis49]

Yeah Japanese steel sucked. That's why they had to fold it and hammer it into a figgin sandwich to make it even slightly usable.

You want good steel? Go Damascus or Viking braided steel.

 

I can't find a source on firearm use among Ninja but they definitely had imported Chinese bombs and mortars from the 13th century on.

 

Yep. The whole vaunted folding method had diminishing returns too since it just pounded out impurities (which are common when your iron deposits are poor and largely come from sand), which makes the myths about thousands of individual folds funny - doing so wouldn't even produce steel by the end, at best you'd just get the ultimate piece of wrought iron. Spanish steel was high-quality too.

 

They had 'em, but by most accounts, firearms and firearm development didn't become a significant focus in Japanese warfare until the Portuguese arrival and the Nanban trade introduced things like the Arquebus.

[arisaka]

I feel like one of the things that detracts from the whole ninja theme is the huge number of enemies Warframe has. I mean, they just swarm in from every doorway (with ranged weapons to boot, unless it's the infested) and there's no room for stealth or small skirmishes. A group of four Warframes is more like a mobile army than a small, elite group of ninjas.

[ValhaHazred]

I think Warframe would suck without the enemy swarms though. Stealth is all well and good but there's room for both (like in Rescue 2.0 missions).

[the1Blind]

I think the "ninja" part refers to tenno using any and all means to achieve their goal, unfettered and unrestricted by any code of honor, just like the ninja trope.

 

Remember that we are in a fictional universe and thus are dealing with tropes, so real world comparisons might fail or lead to unwanted conclusions. (also we got wizard powers, I'm pretty sure the real world ninjas never had those)

[neKroMancer]

I don't find Warframe and Tenno to be ninja-ish since I start playing a year ago, at least a fictional one. We use everything that we can use, reverse enemy's weapon and turn it against them, and kill boatload of Grineer unceremoniously. We are more like muderous space mutant.

Come to think of it, we are pretty similar to Predator. Clan/Tribal warrior who hunts for honor and sport (and loot). They also use primitive weapons like claws and blade but they don't shy away from using cloaking device, automated shoulder-mounted laser cannon, and advanced helmet.

[MayPeX]

DE has hinted towards the new faction their working on to be The Sentients and their return.

 

They were called The Sentients because these things were surprisingly sentient.

 

"The least human enemies," and what's less human than Infested, while being surprisingly sentient?

 

Space Robots. Or Space Rocks. Or Space Dandy Aliens.

 

My vote is Space Rocks.

 

/Speculation

 

[ValhaHazred]

also we got wizard powers, I'm pretty sure the real world ninjas never had those

 

They liked to pretend they did for psycological warfare. They spread rumours that Ninja could fly, talk to animals and control the elements.

[Casardis]

Ninja? What ninja?

 

 

 

This is said with a less serious note.

[Nox-Lamina]

 

1. All sorts of non-ninjalike weaponry. 

2.Armor.

3. Stealth

 

1 Due to the fact that warframe hasn't decided on power fantasy or stealth fantasy this is going to happen.

 

2 Even if someone in this post didn't point out that ninjas wore armor, a warframe is like a second skin. It's like saying the Nanosuit from crysis would be loud clunky and restrict movement when it does ANYTHING BUT THAT.

 

3: This is warframe's biggest identity issue. While we are making progress with the wardens in the new rescue type it isn't at full on ninja-stealth yet. But at the same time we have so many abilities that do not fit in with a stealth fantasy. Nova, Rhino, Saryn, Oberon. Apart from contagion, and hallowed ground (if it were more trap-like) don't exactly fir in with a stealth type game.

 

Imagine how ridiculous it would be to play a stealth game where you stamp your foot into the floor and kill/severely damage all enemies around you, or kill one and set off an explosion on their death, or pick up every enemy in the area and slam then against the ground for heavy damage. This is all non-stealthy and in a steal game environment people would sooner hang a Nova than embrace her on their team.

 

Stealth games have puzzle elements, getting where you need to go without being seen with enemies there as little roadblocks to stop you from solving it, or taking out the pieces in a particular order so that the whole system doesn't come crashing down. Is Nova going to silently AMD some poor soul without the enemies going, what was that? Or is Ash going to teleport behind him and relieve him of the pains of life? Or better is Loki going to setup a decoy, freakout one, kill him and use him as bait for more?

 

See the problem? How will I tell a Nova/other destructive frame not to use their destructive powers in order to better facilitate stealth? Or how will I justify taking a methodical sneaky approach when someone can run into the room, yell "ALL EYES ON ME!" and then send the room into oblivion, no consequences? (exaggeration)

[abaddun]

We're ninjas? Bollocks, all this time I thought I was playing as a Scottish Highlander.

On a more serious note. Whilst still functional, the "ninja" has adapted as time progressed. From a loose name to describe spies and the occasional assasin. That later developed into a more militaristic role.

Of course today, nimjas are romanticised like everything else that was unsavory in the past.

If you wan't a game that can partially simulate stealth and espionage( I think) I would suggest the original thief games.

On matters that concetn warframe, DE must pander to the Western audience if they wan't to be successful. With gritty, down to earth gameplay that is so popular over here(with a little psudoscience thrown in). Trying to win over Asia would be nigh on impossible considering the large number of competitors producing "ninja" games with that distinct Asian theme.

[Innocent_Flower]

What an abysmally terrible thread. 

 

 

Do spartans, halo or historical,  have the ability to shoot lighning from his fingers, turn themselves into a puddle or create masses of deadly tentacles? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, "ninja" isn't a term used in japan. "Ninja" as we know it are acrobatic fighters who use asian weaponry, silly hyperbolic movements  and often wear pjamas. Completely different from actual 'shinobi' 

Edited May 28, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Temp0ralfool]

Ninja? What ninja?

 

 

 

This is said with a less serious note.

so ninja, you can still be stealthy with that

[Archistopheles]

Thread Logic: Everyone who plays this game has to be the same thing because reasons

[AttAckA]

It seems more and more as the game progresses we are turning more and more into Spartans from the Halo series rather than Warframes. Even some of the backstory is similar. Genetically enhanced / altered humans inside of a suit that are the strongest of any force out there, yet are few in numbers and we NEVER see the person inside the suit.

 

1. All sorts of non-ninjalike weaponry. It's understandable to a point; of course we aren't going to just stick to katana's, shurikens, and bows, this is of course the future and that simply won't cut it anymore. But several different types of explosive weaponry along with light machine guns? feels a bit off.

 

2.Armor.Ninja's don't wear armor. It makes noise and lowers mobility. On top of that, with enough armor we start looking more like Spartans and less like Warframes.

 

3. Stealth is still not rewarded or very viable with most frames. Don't get me wrong, unless stealth was really well rewarded, i'd still most likely blaze through missions blasting away at everything in my path. It just doesn't feel right considering we are supposed to be "space ninjas" and yet hardly anyone stealths; even in rescue 2.0, a mission type where stealth was pushed to be "necessary", we are able to rush on through as long as no one touches the alarm.

 

lol dude... i dont mean to flame but im getting annoyed with people saying this. we are NOT NINJAS. we are TENNO. 

 

The Tenno are descendants of an ancient and mystical civilization of lost warriors from the Orokin era on Earth. Preserved in cryopods for centuries, the Tenno now awaken to a new war, fighting and resisting warring factions as the sole bearers of the Orokin-created Warframes.  While the memories of the Tenno have faded over time, their mastery of guns, blades, and Warframe exo-armor has not.

 

while there are similarities, they are not the same. so people complaining we shouldnt have this or that weapon because ninjas dont use them is very wrong. we are not ninjas..end of story.

Edited May 28, 2014 by AttAckA

[Cineris]

Actually...considering how most of us play the game...and how I play it...I actually would like us to be spartans.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

Ah, so we would use the term "Shinobi" instead of just ninja, very interesting. I'll keep this in mind. An by the way, I admire Japan and its culture!

[Innocent_Flower]

Ah, so we would use the term "Shinobi" instead of just ninja, very interesting. I'll keep this in mind. An by the way, I admire Japan and its culture!

Is this a quote or something, the ending sounds familiar. 

 

 

 

But no. 

 

"Ninja" fits the Tenno. Shinobi doesn't. 

 

Shinobi are saboteurs and occasionally assassins that prefer to avoid fighting. Using disguises, poisons and ambush. Doesn't fit tenno at all. Also, Parkour and acrobatics aren't for every shinobi. 

 

Ninja are guys in silly clothes who fight and move in a stylized fashion. Fits tenno perfectly. Hollywood/anime/pop culture. 

Edited May 29, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[dragonboss]

The Problem here is that warframe seems to be more focused on the "Space" than the "Ninja". We have some "parkour", bullet blocking and dodging(which in its current state is close to useless, as it does not actually evade damage), but let's be really honest here, there is no actual stealth. This is because the A.I. is too dumb to support it and stealth kills are a numerical damage value( which doesn't make much sense...), ruling out any good reason for playing stealth.

 

So at the moment we are (mostly*)cool looking guys and gals with powers who can run up and on walls awkwardly, slide and zoren-copter about while shooting things.

 

Many people play this game like it's gears of generic third person shooter(without cover), because currently that seems to be the main focus of the game. You CAN play with melee only, but the game itself does not fully support that(you can't hit cameras or most flying enemies). The main thing I dislike is that the evasive moves we have can evade nothing at all. Rolling doesn't dodge gunfire or Ancient Slaps, neither does backflipping or side rolling, making your playstyle limited to basically just run around and shoot, use melee sometimes and spam powers(4).

 

*Oberon is literally a deer/stag in a warframe (-__-)

 

 

 

 

"Ninja" fits the Tenno. Shinobi doesn't. 

 

Shinobi are saboteurs and occasionally assassins that prefer to avoid fighting. Using disguises, poisons and ambush. Doesn't fit tenno at all. 

 

Ninja are guys in silly clothes who fight in a stylized fashion. Fits tenno perfectly

Ninja and Shinobi are the same thing.... Ninja =/= Naruto

Edited May 28, 2014 by dragonboss

[OniDax]

Is this a quote or something, the ending sounds familiar. 

 

 

 

But no. 

 

"Ninja" fits the Tenno. Shinobi doesn't. 

 

Shinobi are saboteurs and occasionally assassins that prefer to avoid fighting. Using disguises, poisons and ambush. Doesn't fit tenno at all. 

 

Ninja are guys in silly clothes who fight in a stylized fashion. Fits tenno perfectly

 

You're wrong. Ninjas are saboteurs and assassins that prefer to avoid open fighting. Using disguises, poisons, ambushes, etc to kill their enemies. Doesn't fit the Tenno at all with the current Stealth implementation (a decoy ability that makes you actually look like your enemies until you attract attention by non-stealth kiling would help this). What currently fits the Tenno is any warrior that fights in the open and does not rely on stealth to fight. 

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

Is this a quote or something, the ending sounds familiar. 

 

 

But no. 

 

"Ninja" fits the Tenno. Shinobi doesn't. 

 

Shinobi are saboteurs and occasionally assassins that prefer to avoid fighting. Using disguises, poisons and ambush. Doesn't fit tenno at all. Also, Parkour and acrobatics aren't for every shinobi. 

 

Ninja are guys in silly clothes who fight and move in a stylized fashion. Fits tenno perfectly. Hollywood/anime/pop culture. 

Well, it seems I'll just have to look at the ninja and the shinobi to see what the real deal is here...checking the wiki, it says they're one and the same, and the stereotyped ninja is portrayed in the equivalent light of the romanticized (stereotypical), gun-slinging cowboy that can shoot a mosquito off a cow's back 100 yards away 9 times outta 10. Sure, this is not the real thing, but still, it uses some historical precedent - every stereotype has at least some element of truth to it.

Interesting how they are the same thing, though, I was curious what shinobi meant.

And yes, that was a quote - of my own making right there on the spot. I simply put down what was in my head and quoted myself.

 

I don't really see the Tenno as space ninjas at all, except for Ash. I see them as space warriors, that's it.

[abaddun]

We're ninjas? Bollocks, all this time I thought I was playing as a Scottish Highlander.

On a more serious note. Whilst still functional, the "ninja" has adapted as time progressed. From a loose name to describe spies and the occasional assasin. That later developed into a more militaristic role.

Of course today, nimjas are romanticised like everything else that was unsavory in the past.

If you wan't a game that can partially simulate stealth and espionage( I think) I would suggest the original thief games.

On matters that concetn warframe, DE must pander to the Western audience if they wan't to be successful. With gritty, down to earth gameplay that is so popular over here(with a little psudoscience thrown in). Trying to win over Asia would be nigh on impossible considering the large number of competitors producing "ninja" games with that distinct Asian theme.