Warning: Do Not Abandon Void Survivals

[Ganpot]

I decided to abandon a T3 survival due to nothing good dropping after 30 minutes (I was soloing).  I decided to try again, since keys aren't consumed unless you complete the mission.  Surprise surprise, that is now no longer the case.  After some more testing to make sure this was not a 1-off glitch, I have discovered the specifics. 

 

The key is consumed upon quitting, disconnecting, or failing the mission.  This only applies to survival missions (in all three tiers), and only if the mission has passed the 5 minute mark.  If does not apply to defense missions (surprisingly).  It also does not matter if you have run out of air or not.  I have not tested whether this is also true of Derelict missions, but I doubt many people really care about those. 

 

Additionally, this was changed at least 12 days ago (meaning it appears to predate patch 13.4).  It was an undocumented change, and appears to have gone mostly unnoticed (I have seen no mention of it on the forums, and only two comments about it on the wiki). 

 

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Personally, I think this change was an effort to force people to grind more survival keys (since they could previously be reused if you didn't get what you wanted).  Sure, that might be more fair.  But it's yet another instance of DE ****ing over their players by making the drop table even more oppressive. 

[ReiganCross]

You have to understand that sometimes, DE's mission statement for Warframe is "Grind more!" After all, people keep complaining about lack of things to do, so we must give them the only thing we can!!

[Dtexas]

Has it ever occurred to you that it may be a bug? And instead of bashing DE you could report it as a bug and see what happens? Maybe even PM one of the devs on the forums and see what they say?

 

But instead of doing that you instantly go into rage mode because you can no longer play the game the way you want, especially when that way includes abusing a game mechanic (even if that's a side effect of bad drop rates, its still abusing a game mechanic).

Edited May 31, 2014 by Dtexas

[ReiganCross]

Has it ever occurred to you that it may be a bug? And instead of bashing DE you could report it as a bug and see what happens? Maybe even PM one of the devs on the forums and see what they say?

 

But instead of doing that you instantly go into rage mode because you can no longer play the game the way you want, especially when that way includes abusing a game mechanic (even if that's a side effect of bad drop rates, its still abusing a game mechanic).

 

Did you missed the part he tried to use Scientific Method to find out if this is true or not?;.. Because i believe more that DE would rather screw us over some Keys then to allow us to re-grind them so we don't need to grind for Keys so we can grind for parts.

[FalseIncarnate]

...

 

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Personally, I think this change was an effort to force people to grind more survival keys (since they could previously be reused if you didn't get what you wanted).  Sure, that might be more fair.  But it's yet another instance of DE ****ing over their players by making the drop table even more oppressive. 

 

Well, more than anything, it's a fix for an exploit. Sure it might suck for the solo player, but when I was farming out Rhino Prime (boy was that a grind) I was shown that in multi-player void survival matches that having the host abandon still gives the other players the rewards.

 

So while the exploit may SEEM harmless from a solo-perspective, it had the potential to absolutely flood the economy with prime parts if exploited by groups. It sucks, but on the plus side, T1 missions can drop T3 keys. Go hit up a T1 Survival or Defense and stick around for the keys. In a single T1 Survival, I got 2-3 T3 Exterminate keys within 20 minutes.

[CaveCricket48]

Did you test if you can still quite by closing fram via task manager?

 

Warframe isn't connected to servers while in a game, so you should be able to alt-F4 or w/e you do to exit and save your key.

[Pixydis]

Nope, it's the thing.

I failed a solo void mission once and wrote off to the support, since keys were never consumed on death/fail, right? (the ticket happened sometime around U9 +/-1)

Turns out, support replied: it's working as intended.

The only instance when the key is not consumed, is when the host (key holder) disconnects.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Pixydis

[Anunymau5]

making the drop table even more oppressive. 

Guys, the struggle is real!

[Ganpot]

Has it ever occurred to you that it may be a bug? And instead of bashing DE you could report it as a bug and see what happens? Maybe even PM one of the devs on the forums and see what they say?

 

But instead of doing that you instantly go into rage mode because you can no longer play the game the way you want, especially when that way includes abusing a game mechanic.

 

Actually, my first thought was that it was an isolated bug.  I did 2+ hours of testing to determine which conditions resulted in a lost key.  It might still be a bug, but I highly doubt it.  It's simply too convenient and uniform. 

 

I fully admit that reusing survival keys is abusing the game mechanics.  But here's the thing: survival missions are deliberately set up to have more grind than any other mission.  The T3 survival drop table has 10 possible rewards, and I'm willing to bet that some of those have less than a 2% drop chance (Rhino Prime Chassis anyone?).  This change also comes after months of widespread complaints about the void drop table.  Quite frankly, I don't feel any guilt whatsoever about using this "exploit", because it only evened out the playing field. 

 

 

So while the exploit may SEEM harmless from a solo-perspective, it had the potential to absolutely flood the economy with prime parts if exploited by groups. It sucks, but on the plus side, T1 missions can drop T3 keys. Go hit up a T1 Survival or Defense and stick around for the keys. In a single T1 Survival, I got 2-3 T3 Exterminate keys within 20 minutes.

 

This particular exploit has existed since the initial creation of survival void missions.  If it has flooded the economy with prime parts, I certainly haven't seen it.  I'd also prefer to avoid a threefold grind (grinding to get T1 keys, then T3 keys, then actual prime parts).  I'm pretty sure most people would like to do the same. 

 

 

Guys, the struggle is real!

 

The proletariat must rise!!!!  ;)

[TormDK]

Seems fair to me that it is consumed on use, rather than on mission successful.

 

Cuts down on people not taking it seriously enough.

[JohnProdman]

This is a game. People need to stop acting like some serious infraction of basic human rights has been committed every single time there's an update. It's starting to get really old.

[ReiganCross]

Well, more than anything, it's a fix for an exploit. Sure it might suck for the solo player, but when I was farming out Rhino Prime (boy was that a grind) I was shown that in multi-player void survival matches that having the host abandon still gives the other players the rewards.

 

So while the exploit may SEEM harmless from a solo-perspective, it had the potential to absolutely flood the economy with prime parts if exploited by groups. It sucks, but on the plus side, T1 missions can drop T3 keys. Go hit up a T1 Survival or Defense and stick around for the keys. In a single T1 Survival, I got 2-3 T3 Exterminate keys within 20 minutes.

 

Yes, it's a game exploit... But you know what else is an exploit? Making me grind T3S for a month without a single Rhino Prime Chassis... So yeah, i'm going to want my exploit to be at least on the same level that DE exploits us. Forgive me for not feeling bad for wanting to break this game as bad as it wants to break me into spending money on it.

[Tarille]

I was slightly annoyed when I found this out... Luckily I tested it on a batch of T2 keys and still had enough to find what I wanted before I ran out.

 

But yeah... Was nice to be able to do, since the drop tables really are garbage (Really? Fusion Cores and Orokin Cells? That's what you want to give me? Not Forma, not prime parts frelling Orokin Cells?)

 

It still took time to get things and you'd miss out on a lot of resources and mods, but it meant that you could get things from the void without having to spend several months grinding keys to be able to grind 500+ hours worth of void survivals to get everything out of each of the 3 tower's drop tables.

 

At least Defence still works - God knows how screwed I'd be if it didn't (I really don't enjoy Void Defence... Would've taken me forever to get enough keys to grab my Lex Prime BP without this)

[JohnProdman]

So yeah, i'm going to want my exploit to be at least on the same level that DE exploits us. 

I can not even begin to tell you how much sense this post doesn't make.

[Lunamaniac]

I can not even begin to tell you how much sense this post doesn't make.

It's simply not fair to ask players to farm THAT much for the rhino chassis.  We're being exploited :l  Sense was made.

[ReiganCross]

I can not even begin to tell you how much sense this post doesn't make.

 

I'm just saying that the amount of Layered Grinding going on with Void right now is pretty much a complete Anti-Player bullS#&$. It isn't fun to get the Keys that will then let you get the items you want, it's a chore. I'm not going to complain about abysmal drop rates on Void, they are bad but at least the Void missions are fun and exciting to do. So the fact that we have to grind in order to grind, it's an exploit that DE is using to make us grind more.

 

So when they remove my way around THEIR exploit because they want to be exploitative (Because, as mentioned, Key Hunting isn't fun) then forgive me for not being exactly a good sport...

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

Clearly, people are exploiting DE's generosity in Keys not being consumed until the mission is successfully completed.  It's a mechanic designed to not penalize you if you legitimately lose connection and to let you try again if you legitimately fail the mission.

 

They're exploiting by deliberately failing, disconnecting, or aborting the missions to avoid Key expenditures if their preferred prize doesn't show up.

 

Now, this is a sympton of some unsavory drop tables, but it is an exploit to use that Key mechanic in that fashion.  Dropping to avoid Key expenditure because you don't like your prize is against the spirit of the mechanic.

 

 

I'd like to see them remove the Credit Caches and just give an additional Credit Bonus with a blueprints and parts from the drop tables, especially for Defense, which can be about as intense as Survival, but doesn't accrue prizes with each wave, rather risking what's earned for what could be earned.  Then maybe people wouldn't abuse the Keys.

 

Bottom line, I think, is that if the Keys have changed, you've earned that change.

Edited May 31, 2014 by (PS4)Hooligantuan

[ReiganCross]

Clearly, people are exploiting DE's generosity in Keys not being consumed until the mission is successfully completed.

 

I actually agree with you there. Yep, the whole disconnect before we're done because we didn't got what i want seem like a pretty petty exploit. It breaks lore, it makes little sense and it's completely against what they had in mind when they set it up.

 

But you know what? I don't feel bad using this exploit because i feel like they're using some pretty petty exploits as well.

[VegetableBasket]

Did you test if you can still quite by closing fram via task manager?

 

Warframe isn't connected to servers while in a game, so you should be able to alt-F4 or w/e you do to exit and save your key.

Unless something changed recently, hitting alt f4 actually saves your progress before closing, but exiting through the task manager does not. If you use the task manager you can keep consumables (energy pads etc) that you used but if you alt f4 they go away.

I learned about that quite some time ago, so maybe it is not true anymore. Too lazy to test, but it's something to consider.

Edited May 31, 2014 by VegetableBasket

[Azawarau]

Yes, it's a game exploit... But you know what else is an exploit? Making me grind T3S for a month without a single Rhino Prime Chassis... So yeah, i'm going to want my exploit to be at least on the same level that DE exploits us. Forgive me for not feeling bad for wanting to break this game as bad as it wants to break me into spending money on it.

Two wrongs dont make a right

 

 

And admitting where youre wrong certainly wont make this point any more valid

[ReiganCross]

Two wrongs dont make a right

 

 

And admitting where youre wrong certainly wont make this point any more valid

 

It's not about being right, it's about feeling right.

 

Beside, being a good sport will not get them to stop their exploit, so i have to defend myself somehow. Not from you or from their judgment, but from their exploitative system. And the fact that i feel like i need to defend myself from DE's exploits speaks loads about how wrong their system is.

 

(Notice i keep using "feel"... None of this is fact, it is all feelings.)

[Azawarau]

It's not about being right, it's about feeling right.

 

Beside, being a good sport will not get them to stop their exploit, so i have to defend myself somehow. Not from you or from their judgment, but from their exploitative system. And the fact that i feel like i need to defend myself from DE's exploits speaks loads about how wrong their system is.

 

(Notice i keep using "feel"... None of this is fact, it is all feelings.)

Well your "feelings" Dont make you any better than DE

 

The drop tables are tough

 

Abusing a system until it gets removed makes it tougher

[Ganpot]

Dropping to avoid Key expenditure because you don't like your prize is against the spirit of the mechanic.

 

I don't disagree with that, but high level survival and defense as a whole was also against the original spirit of the game.  So was coptering.  In fact, many important aspects in games were invented as exploits.  Rocket jumping; skiing in tribes; etc.  The only question which matters is whether the exploit detracts from the game as a whole.  I would argue that survival key re-use does not (for reasons stated previously), but that's a matter of personal opinion. 

[ReiganCross]

Well your "feelings" Dont make you any better than DE

 

The drop tables are tough

 

Abusing a system until it gets removed makes it tougher

 

I'm not claiming i'm better... I'm claiming they're as bad as me.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

I actually have no problem with the change; I do, however, have issue with DE not including the change in the patch notes.