After The Pyrana, The Brakk Makes Me Sad Once Again

[Pazgabear]

There ARE alternatives to the Brakk, if something should be done, it would be bringing the Detron to the level of the Brakk, since they both share the same tedious farm and RNG wall, while your Pyrana only need clantech, which GUARANTEE you to get it.

 

If you don't want the Brakk, use the Angstrum or the Stug, or don't use secondaries at all, saying that the Brakk dominate everything simply because it has higher DPS on PAPER is complete bullS#&$, and i dream of a world where people could understand that. To get its full DPS you need to be a point blank range, at 10m or above, the spread and fallof will reduce its DPS, and try to get up close and personnal against lvl 40 corrupted gunners or napalms, or even Corpus Techs, its not really funny

 

Yeah, the Brakk hits hard, but i can hit harder and in a more reliable way with a Paris Prime, and get a more reliable DPS with a Boltor Prime or even the Phage

 

EDIT : Oh, and it kills me to see people crying over the power gap, and when DE wants to fill that gap with new weapons, they cry because it's not as powerfull as the higher tier weapons

Edited June 4, 2014 by Pazgabear

[Othergrunty]

Another slash damage shotgun? Oh DE have you learned nothing from the Tigris?

 

You know when i last saw someone use a Tigris? That was 2 and a half months ago. Since then zero!

 

Slash damage is only good on blade weapons and fast firing weapons, since it's mostly good for infested which come in hordes that make slow firing weapons or weapons with small magazines a waste of time.

 

Even the Bronco still seems more usefull thanks to it's impact focus and it doesn't require a Dojo to be aquired.

[Shaydewalker]

As a holder of the brakk I agree, I can pull out over 38k damage with one clip in less than a second. definitely needs a nerf

[Cursor]

There ARE alternatives to the Brakk, if something should be done, it would be bringing the Detron to the level of the Brakk, since they both share the same tedious farm and RNG wall, while your Pyrana only need clantech, which GUARANTEE you to get it.

 

If you don't want the Brakk, use the Angstrum or the Stug, or don't use secondaries at all, saying that the Brakk dominate everything simply because it has higher DPS on PAPER is complete bullS#&$, and i dream of a world where people could understand that. To get its full DPS you need to be a point blank range, at 10m or above, the spread and fallof will reduce its DPS, and try to get up close and personnal against lvl 40 corrupted gunners or napalms, or even Corpus Techs, its not really funny

 

Yeah, the Brakk hits hard, but i can hit harder and in a more reliable way with a Paris Prime, and get a more reliable DPS with a Boltor Prime or even the Phage

 

I agree that the Detron and the Brakk should be comparable, regardless of how strong they are. The fact that Brakk is so plainly superior in so many ways to a weapon that literally requires the exact same amount of effort to get is really frustrating.

 

I'm perfectly fine with there being alternatives to the Brakk, I never said there weren't. In fact, that's how things should be. I didn't say Brakk was superior to everything, just many things. Most. Quite a lot.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Cursor

[Seele]

You'd be surprised.

 

Each pellet has that status chance, so for things like Detron's 10% status chance, with 7 pellets averages at ~52% chance for a status effect in a shot. Same for Brakk's 10% status chance, with 10 pellets it averages ~65% chance per shot.

It's actually the opposite. Critical and status chances for shotguns and pellet guns reflect the value for the entire shell, not each pellet.

 

Still, the pistol shotguns fire quickly enough to proc at reasonable rates, especially with multishot and event mods.

 

Overall Pyrana is what everyone's taking it to be, no usurper to Brakk's throne but an interesting enough premise. I can't wait to try it myself, I'm a sucker for that kind of antique/western aesthetic on Tenno weapons.

[VentiGlondi]

Brakk is top tier secondary

 

 

SO WHAT

 

You don't need top tier weapons to do just fine.

And more importantly - you don't need weapons better than current top tier. That's power creep.

[Marthrym]

The Brakk is only good (okay REALLY good) at SHORT range. It has been nerfed already. Make less new crappy weapons. Tadaa, problem solved (seriously, when was the last great gun in the market/lab?^^'). Do not nerf good ones. Unless they kill all the fun of course, in that case fire at will!

 

Oh and...

 

Well... Brakk is ridiculous.

 

Highest DPS weapon in the game (With Red Crits, Dread/Paris Prime can at least approach it) by a significant margin. 50% more DPS potential than other "OP" weapons like Boltor Prime and Phage (~100% more DPS potential than Soma)

 

Yeah... There really doesn't need to be any more guns that do that, lest other weapons become as obsolete as you feel the Pyrana is comparatively.

 

As far as the Pyrana goes, it's not locked behind RNG assassins like Detron/Brakk and has decent stats.

 

Not every weapon needs to be top tier god mode, and I'm sure there are a lot of people whom are glad for an accessible Handcannon.

^ DPS. Seriously? Do you even Warframe? ANY experienced player will tell you this : DPS is largely irrelevant. Why?

Firstly, it's THEORETICAL DPS. That's the damage you MIGHT manage to pull off if you shoot a target with NO ARMOR, NO RESISTANCES, and that doesn't move at all ever so that you can line up EVERY shot (yeah we have some enemies like that, I'll concede that).

Secondly, the Brakk's THEORETICAL DPS (again, emphasis on THEORETICAL) can only be achieved if you hit an enemy that has no armor, no resistances, at very close range, and all that while making sure EVERY pellet hits the target. That's a lot of things theoretical DPS doesn't even consider before throwing numbers at gullible people who believe it is the word of God or something. They don't even question it... *sigh*

There are weapons that indeed do their job really well. And people complain about that... While other weapons are completely useless. And no one complains about it... Man, Humanity is so doomed...

 

The problem is, we always compare the DPS of every weapon without considering how each work, if they're accurate, easy to handle, hard to obtain, and most importantly, fun to use. I don't see many Tenno use the Brakk, maybe because it's not fun to use. Not because it trivializes the game. Other weapons do that just fine and I see them all the time. And I don't mind actually. It's fun to lay waste to entire armies of MOAs/lancers/infested/whatever, and it's even funnier to do it with others^^.

 

The Brakk is very powerful if handled the right way (hint : muzzle towards target^^). Still, I don't see throngs of Tenno use it every time I play. Honestly, I haven't seen anyone with a Brakk in at least 7 or 8 weeks. And I never saw many people use it in the first place to be honest^^. Maybe when it was a novelty. But now? Nope.

I agree with you on your last point though. The Pyrana is not locked behind walls of RNG, that's a plus. No idea if it's decent/great/"OP"/terribad though.

[Cursor]

It's actually the opposite. Critical and status chances for shotguns and pellet guns reflect the value for the entire shell, not each pellet.

 

Still, the pistol shotguns fire quickly enough to proc at reasonable rates, especially with multishot and event mods.

 

Overall Pyrana is what everyone's taking it to be, no usurper to Brakk's throne but an interesting enough premise. I can't wait to try it myself, I'm a sucker for that kind of antique/western aesthetic on Tenno weapons.

 

Okay, thanks for clearing up the status part. I knew the crits were calculated per shot but I didn't know if status was the same way or not.

 

I don't want Pyrana to be an upgrade to the Brakk, I just want some reason, any reason to use it instead of the Brakk. I think it looks pretty good on paper, and would be a marvelous weapon if the Brakk didn't exist.

 

I agree on the aesthetics bit, I love that look and hope they keep weapons like that coming.

[Tarille]

The Brakk is only good (okay REALLY good) at SHORT range. It has been nerfed already. Make less new crappy weapons. Tadaa, problem solved (seriously, when was the last great gun in the market/lab?^^'). Do not nerf good ones. Unless they kill all the fun of course, in that case fire at will!

 

Oh and...

 

^ DPS. Seriously? Do you even Warframe? ANY experienced player will tell you this : DPS is largely irrelevant. Why?

Firstly, it's THEORETICAL DPS. That's the damage you MIGHT manage to pull off if you shoot a target with NO ARMOR, NO RESISTANCES, and that doesn't move at all ever so that you can line up EVERY shot (yeah we have some enemies like that, I'll concede that).

Secondly, the Brakk's THEORETICAL DPS (again, emphasis on THEORETICAL) can only be achieved if you hit an enemy that has no armor, no resistances, at very close range, and all that while making sure EVERY pellet hits the target. That's a lot of things theoretical DPS doesn't even consider before throwing numbers at gullible people who believe it is the word of God or something. They don't even question it... *sigh*

 

I know that DPS is largely irrelevant.

 

But it's the only real way it's possible to compare the damage output of weapons, outside DPH and Burst DPS.

 

Sustained DPS takes in the most factors - DPH, Fire Rate, Reload Speed, Multi-shot averages, Crit Averages.

 

Yes it doesn't take into account accuracy, ability to actually fire at the max rate (For Semi-Auto weapons, the fire rate can actually exceed the rate most people can fire it - Not everyone can click 10+ times a second and not everyone binds firing to scrolling the mouse wheel to use that to increase fire rate), ability to hit with projectiles, AoE potential etc.

 

But it's the best way to compare weapons, otherwise you'd be down to "Yeah, X weapon feels like it's good and might be better than Y weapon"

 

It's actually the opposite. Critical and status chances for shotguns and pellet guns reflect the value for the entire shell, not each pellet.

 

Interesting.

 

Everything I've researched, experienced and read shows the opposite.

 

Critical rates being per pellet, status chance being per pellet and multi-shot being per pellet.

 

Especially noticable when using the Phage so able to have each "Pellet" attacking different targets simultaneously for extended durations.

[Davoodoo]

It's time to nerf the Brakk down to Detron/Pyrana levels i would say. Long overdue.

That would mean we have 2 identical weapons which isnt ideal situation in any way, the problem is that pyrana isnt anyway unique to current guns, its basically a brakk with inferior stats, if you buff pyrana you will get brakk if you nerf brakk you got yourself pyrana.

 

This weapon stands against everything that both balance and anti nerf groups have wanted. I explained what would happen if you balance it and its also not strongest so i cant imagine anyone using it over brakk.

 

Althrough while nowhere near balanced pyrana and brakk show 2 tiers of same weapon. Maybe after some balance changes in some distant future.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Cpl_Facehugger]

The Pyrana is much easier to aquire though, so I don't really see a problem in it being not a monster like the Brakk imo.

 

Exactly. A mere clantech gun compared to one locked behind triple RNG and the G3? Of course the Brakk is better. It takes massively more effort to acquire.

[Seele]

Interesting.

 

Everything I've researched, experienced and read shows the opposite.

 

Critical rates being per pellet, status chance being per pellet and multi-shot being per pellet.

 

Especially noticable when using the Phage so able to have each "Pellet" attacking different targets simultaneously for extended durations.

Phage is... an interesting case. I won't claim to know anything about it that I don't.

 

Critical and status chances being per shell rather than per pellet are apparent enough using the inflated numbers of the Boar Prime. If each pellet was rolling a base 40% chance for status it would almost always proc even unmodded, and its 15% crit would appear much higher multiplied by its 9 pellets.

[Cursor]

That would mean we have 2 identical weapons which isnt ideal situation in any way, the problem is that pyrana isnt anyway unique to current guns, its basically a brakk with inferior stats, if you buff pyrana you will get brakk if you nerf brakk you got yourself pyrana.

 

This weapon stands against everything that both balance and anti nerf groups have wanted. I explained what would happen if you balance it and its also not strongest so i cant imagine anyone using it over brakk.

 

Althrough while nowhere near balanced pyrana and brakk show 2 tiers of same weapon. Maybe after some balance changes in some distant future.

 

Very untrue. The Brakk, Pyrana, and Detron all operate very differently in terms of damage. If they had more similar stats in accuracy, fire rate, reload speed, and crit chance, they would still fill different niches, Pyrana being better for Infested, Detron ruling Grineer, and Brakk just being a good all-rounder. If Brakk did as much damage as Pyrana, they would still have different uses.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Cursor

[Davoodoo]

Very untrue. The Brakk, Pyrana, and Detron all operate very differently in terms of damage. If they had more similar stats in accuracy, fire rate, reload speed, and crit chance, they would still fill different niches, Pyrana being better for Infested, Detron ruling Grineer, and Brakk just being a good all-rounder. If Brakk did as much damage as Pyrana, they would still have different uses.

What game are you playing?? 

Brakk will do base dmg per shot to infested:

161 chargers

173 crawlers 

167 toxics/disruptors

 

Pyrana will do base dmg per shot to infested:

130 to chargers

151 to crawlers

121 to toxics/disruptors.

 

How is pyrana more anti infested than brakk again?? except of mentioned above dmg calculations which will have even bigger difference when mods are applied, higher base dmg on brakk means that you can pack more of elemental dmg which you can match to infested weaknesses. Also all other stats on brakk are also same or higher.

 

Even after that elemental dmg is most important and you can pretty much ignore physical dmg and it will make minimal difference.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Edgedemon]

Soooooooooooooooo can we maybe get Akbrakk?

do you really want to farm a second brakk?

[Edgedemon]

How is pyrana more anti infested than brakk again?? except of mentioned above dmg calculations which will have even bigger difference when mods are applied, higher base dmg on brakk means that you can pack more of elemental dmg which you can match to infested weaknesses. Also all other stats on brakk are also same or higher.

 

Even after that elemental dmg is most important and you can pretty much ignore physical dmg and it will make minimal difference.

how long do you take to empty a clip on said enemies with both?

do they have the same skill tier?

and most importantly, that seems way lower than the aforementioned "50% more damage"

[Cursor]

How is pyrana more anti infested than brakk again?? except of mentioned above dmg calculations which will have even bigger difference when mods are applied, higher base dmg on brakk means that you can pack more of elemental dmg which you can match to infested weaknesses. Also all other stats on brakk are also same or higher.

 

Sorry, I guess I forgot to mention damage as well. I was speaking about the hypothetical of Brakk's damage being more in-line with other weapons. If Brakk didn't do such ludicrous amounts of damage, weapons would fill niches instead of being patently inferior to another.

[Davoodoo]

how long do you take to empty a clip on said enemies with both?

do they have the same skill tier?

and most importantly, that seems way lower than the aforementioned "50% more damage"

Read again, they are both sidearm shotguns, 

Brakk - Pyrana

5.6     -  5.0 accuracy

5.0     -  4.2 fire rate

15%   -  10% crit chance

2.0     -   1.5 crit dmg

5        -    5   clip size

1.0     -   2.0  reload time

10%   -   10%  status chance

That except of mentioned dmg.

If by "50% more dmg" you mean slash bonus for infested it only applies to crawlers, chargers take 25% more and ancients take 15% more, but even when considering that brakk with lower slash dmg will still do higher dmg to infested due to higher impact and puncture dmg values which give 0 bonus to infested.

 

Sorry, I guess I forgot to mention damage as well. I was speaking about the hypothetical of Brakk's damage being more in-line with other weapons. If Brakk didn't do such ludicrous amounts of damage, weapons would fill niches instead of being patently inferior to another.

Not enough niche to really justify it being there tbh, some differences in stats or functionality would be in order if you ask me.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Cursor]

Not enough niche to really justify it being there tbh, some differences in stats or functionality would be in order if you ask me.

 

Fair enough. Then how about the Brakk not beat Detron and Pyrana in accuracy, fire rate, pellet count, critical chance, and critical modifier, and the Pyrana in reload speed?

Edited June 4, 2014 by Cursor

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

Complain about power creep.

Complain about things not being as good as the brakk.

Complain about the brakk not being nerfed.

Come on with this. Really?

How about we leave the brakk alone and just don't worry about numbers quite so much? I think the new gun looks cool and am interested in working out a fun build for it. It doesn't need to be as good when I can just use it where it needs to be used and use something else, or use a different build, when I need to.

Edited June 5, 2014 by (PS4)ElZilcho

[Davoodoo]

Fair enough. Then how about the Brakk not beat Detron and Pyrana in accuracy, fire rate, pellet count, reload speed, and critical chance?

Detron have its unique trait of not being affected by falloff.

Brakk could stay as semi auto shotgun

Pyrana could get higher mag size and higher rof to reflect it being automatic shotgun.

 

Ofc thats after adjusting dmg and thats only my proposals, if even after rebalancing i find them different enough it will be fine with me.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Cursor]

Detron have its unique trait of not being affected by falloff.

Brakk could stay as semi auto shotgun

Pyrana could get higher mag size and higher rof to reflect it being automatic shotgun.

 

Ofc thats after adjusting dmg and thats only my proposals, if even after rebalancing i find them different enough it will be fine with me.

 

Detron may not have damage falloff, but it still loses a significant amount of damage on distant enemies because of its incredibly large spread.

 

I do agree that Pyrana could have a larger magazine, and I think it could also benefit from a slightly improved reload speed.

[HAYABU5A]

whatever happens.. just as long as Akbronco Prime gets buffed to where its suppose to be 

[Pizzarugi]

It's time to nerf the Brakk down to Detron/Pyrana levels i would say. Long overdue.

Or, you know, make the brakk an event exclusive item again. All event exclusives have been godly in power for their time until their eventual obsolesence by new weapons. Pyrana may be weaker than brakk, but it outperforms bronco. Eventually, more secondaries will be released and brakk will fall behind.

They nerf the brakk, they better make the other exclusives publically obtained, and subsequently nerfed.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Pizzarugi

[Pazgabear]

I don't want Pyrana to be an upgrade to the Brakk, I just want some reason, any reason to use it instead of the Brakk. I think it looks pretty good on paper, and would be a marvelous weapon if the Brakk didn't exist.

 

Want a reason to use it instead of the Brakk ? Start a new account, and get to the point where you can either spawn the G3 or join a clan to get your Pyrana, i wonder which one you'll chose.

 

It's the point of the tier system, if a weapon is from an higher tier, it WILL and MUST perform better than the one in the lower tier, despite being the same type of weapon.

 

The problem in Warframe is that you can get your higher tier weaponry even before being able to craft a Karak or Akvastos, bypassing the need of mid-tier weapons since you can get the best at MR2