After The Pyrana, The Brakk Makes Me Sad Once Again

[Noble_Cactus]

You'd be surprised.

 

Each pellet has that status chance, so for things like Detron's 10% status chance, with 7 pellets averages at ~52% chance for a status effect in a shot. Same for Brakk's 10% status chance, with 10 pellets it averages ~65% chance per shot.

 

Have you actually tried using a shotgun in game?

 

Take a shotgun - any shotgun - and equip an element. Now go shoot as many targets as you can and tell me how many times that element procs over the course of a 30 minute survival/defense. It's not high at all in practice, and way lower than the overall % would indicate even if you land every single pellet. 

Edited June 5, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[Pazgabear]

He was right, it was the case before DE changed it

[Eyeless]

-sigh- Another 'Brakk is the only option!' thread. Is it really uncommon knowledge there's better secondaries? 

[Pizzarugi]

Want a reason to use it instead of the Brakk ? Start a new account, and get to the point where you can either spawn the G3 or join a clan to get your Pyrana, i wonder which one you'll chose.

 

It's the point of the tier system, if a weapon is from an higher tier, it WILL and MUST perform better than the one in the lower tier, despite being the same type of weapon.

 

The problem in Warframe is that you can get your higher tier weaponry even before being able to craft a Karak or Akvastos, bypassing the need of mid-tier weapons since you can get the best at MR2

People like to argue otherwise, but DE really needs to make use of mastery ranks and gating items behind certain levels. It will take a long time for the average person to get 10+ mastery rank, and locking powerful things behind high ranks would encourage people to actually rank up.

[Cursor]

Want a reason to use it instead of the Brakk ? Start a new account, and get to the point where you can either spawn the G3 or join a clan to get your Pyrana, i wonder which one you'll chose.

 

It's the point of the tier system, if a weapon is from an higher tier, it WILL and MUST perform better than the one in the lower tier, despite being the same type of weapon.

 

The problem in Warframe is that you can get your higher tier weaponry even before being able to craft a Karak or Akvastos, bypassing the need of mid-tier weapons since you can get the best at MR2

 

I'm surprised you're mentioning tiers, by which I imagine you mean mastery rank, but Brakk has no mastery rank requirement. And if you're just saying difficulty getting a weapon establishes its strength, please explain the Detron and how it relates to Brakk.

[Wolfstorm18]

I have both the Brakk blueprint from the Gradivus event and the one dropped from G3 guys. 

 

Never built it. 

 

Most ugly weapon in the game. And for me, theres a limit for ugliness. 

 

Ugly weapons are for ugly players. And ugly players are the ones who dont have skill, and need the crutches of high dps. 

Edited June 5, 2014 by Wolfstorm18

[Pazgabear]

I'm talking about tiers in terms of upgrades and downgrades to a weapon, mid tier is an upgrade to low tier, and is a downgrade from high tier. Tiers don't stop at MR, things like ressources needed to craft the weapon and difficulty to obtain said weapon are to be taken into account too.

The problem is, as of now, tiers are completely messed up, whereas in other games you would need to get a mid-tier weapon to get to the point where you can get high-tier weapons, in Warframe, you can get from low-tier to high-tier pretty easily, without even bothering with the mid-tier

 

As for the Brakk and Detron, i said in a previous message that if there is something to do about handcannons, it would be bringing Detron to the level of the Brakk.

[Guest]

Ugly weapons are for ugly players. And ugly players are the ones who dont have skill, and need the crutches of high dps. 

[Cursor]

I'm talking about tiers in terms of upgrades and downgrades to a weapon, mid tier is an upgrade to low tier, and is a downgrade from high tier. Tiers don't stop at MR, things like ressources needed to craft the weapon and difficulty to obtain said weapon are to be taken into account too.

The problem is, as of now, tiers are completely messed up, whereas in other games you would need to get a mid-tier weapon to get to the point where you can get high-tier weapons, in Warframe, you can get from low-tier to high-tier pretty easily, without even bothering with the mid-tier

 

As for the Brakk and Detron, i said in a previous message that if there is something to do about handcannons, it would be bringing Detron to the level of the Brakk.

 

I think you and I just want different things out of weapons. I'd prefer sidegrades with minimal overall strength progression because that helps slow down power creep.

 

As it stands, Warframe doesn't really have a noticeable progression system. You could say that the Void is the higher level content, but none of the resources in the Void are locked by the tier key you use (Argon is the best example here). Prime parts have somewhat of a barrier to getting them, but most mission types are extremely soloable without having exceptionally good gear or following any sort of ladder progression. As you said, a lot of weapons you can acquire extremely early. Brakk and Detron are among them. And I say, rather than try to make sense of that mess just try to have weapons be more comparable. It'd be nice if virtually all guns, well modded, could perform at the 35+ range.

[Noble_Cactus]

I have both the Brakk blueprint from the Cicero event and the one dropped from G3 guys. 

 

Never built it. 

 

Most ugly weapon in the game. And for me, theres a limit for ugliness. 

 

Ugly weapons are for ugly players. And ugly players are the ones who dont have skill, and need the crutches of high dps. 

 

Skill.

 

Warframe.

 

-

 

And the Brakk is beautiful, thank you very much. I like my space gourd revolver shotgun of death.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[Pazgabear]

I think you and I just want different things out of weapons. I'd prefer sidegrades with minimal overall strength progression because that helps slow down power creep.

 

As it stands, Warframe doesn't really have a noticeable progression system. You could say that the Void is the higher level content, but none of the resources in the Void are locked by the tier key you use (Argon is the best example here). Prime parts have somewhat of a barrier to getting them, but most mission types are extremely soloable without having exceptionally good gear or following any sort of ladder progression. As you said, a lot of weapons you can acquire extremely early. Brakk and Detron are among them. And I say, rather than try to make sense of that mess just try to have weapons be more comparable. It'd be nice if virtually all guns, well modded, could perform at the 35+ range.

 

If they all perform well at the 35+ range, it means that they will obliterate lower level enemies, that's why sidegrades are good in games where there is no progression, like TF2.

 

In Warframe, there IS a progression system, the problem is, as you say it, it's not noticeable, since you can go from Mk1 Braton to Latron Prime pretty easily, without even bothering with other weapons.

[Lers]

If they all perform well at the 35+ range, it means that they will obliterate lower level enemies, that's why sidegrades are good in games where there is no progression, like TF2.

 

In Warframe, there IS a progression system, the problem is, as you say it, it's not noticeable, since you can go from Mk1 Braton to Latron Prime pretty easily, without even bothering with other weapons.

 

Latron P. is a semi-bad example though. Aside from the drop luck,10 orokin cells, and slight meta knowledge of the Void involved, it also requires people pulling you through multiple Void survivals with an Mk1. Certainly possible, but mostly unlikely.

 

Anywho... concerning the Brakk? It's fine. If we'd have a horde of people using it in every mission possible (khm Rhino) I might change my mind on it, but I rarely ever see it. We have bigger hitters in the house, and its behind a fairly annoying RNG wall. I have it fully amped in my inventory since Gradivus, but rarely ever bother to pull it out. We have both stronger and more fun options (imo anyway).

 

EDIT: Gradivus not Cicero... ><

Edited June 5, 2014 by Lers

[Wolfstorm18]

 

I played the 100 missions on Gradivus, to get the Detron, and instead got the ugly peppergun blueprint. I stopped playing Warframe for two months after that event, and returned to the game in february of this year. 

 

The devs can multiply Bragg damage a hundred times, I still will not build it.

 

Now I have the Detron (dropped by that Corpus dog) and Im happy with it. Im researching the Pyrana right now. 

[Noble_Cactus]

Good for you man.

 

I personally think the Detron makes me look like I'm holding a battery, so I don't use it. Also not a fan of the spread and the projectile travel time.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[Davoodoo]

Tbh i dont like neither of them.

 

We were promised with hand cannon but instead we got pocket shotgun.

 

I prefer my secondary to be more allround.

[Noble_Cactus]

I guess we have Marelok/Lex Prime for our handcannon...?

 

I do want an actual hand cannon at some point, though. As in a giant revolver with huge recoil but with the ability to innately punch through enemies that sends them flying with each shot. And a high gib chance.

 

But then we'd just have another Lex/Marelok expy on our hands. Hmm.

[Pizzarugi]

Skill.

 

Warframe.

 

-

 

And the Brakk is beautiful, thank you very much. I like my space gourd revolver shotgun of death.

I call it the 'turd cannon', myself, because thats what it looks like. :P

And quite honestly, the brakk has its uses, especially when you're fighting a boss for the first time and you want to make sure its not you who will be dying. When the new Vay Hek came out, I outfitted myself in the best gear including the brakk to gauge his strength. When I found he wasn't as dangerous as I thought, I re-equipped my weapons I was training and farmed him.

In the end, its all a matter of self-control. If you don't want the brakk's immense power, don't use it or even build it. Don't ruin it for everyone else who uses it, especially for those who earned it in the gradivus event.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Pizzarugi

[Nyss]

I usually don't give a crap about 'highest stats' and 'best dps', I just use the weapons that feel right at the time. To me, it's all about the weapon's personality. If it's a supereffective killing machine, all the better, but I just like weapons that feel good.

 

If you like it? Use it.

 

Yes, the Brakk is better than the Pyrana. Whatever. But do you have fun using that Pyrana against enemies? Then that's all the reason you need to keep using it. Ignore the number crunching, ignore elitism.

[Davoodoo]

I guess we have Marelok/Lex Prime for our handcannon...?

 

I do want an actual hand cannon at some point, though. As in a giant revolver with huge recoil but with the ability to innately punch through enemies that sends them flying with each shot. And a high gib chance.

 

But then we'd just have another Lex/Marelok expy on our hands. Hmm.

I find lex prime as regular pistol really, new age sig p226, marelok idk how to classify this, fires too fast for hand cannon and is too big to be regular pistol.

 

Remove pellets from brakk, reduce fire rate and increase reload time, remove falloff and add impact effect to shots and we might have a hand cannon.

 

 

I usually don't give a crap about 'highest stats' and 'best dps', I just use the weapons that feel right at the time. To me, it's all about the weapon's personality. If it's a supereffective killing machine, all the better, but I just like weapons that feel good.

 

If you like it? Use it.

 

Yes, the Brakk is better than the Pyrana. Whatever. But do you have fun using that Pyrana against enemies? Then that's all the reason you need to keep using it. Ignore the number crunching, ignore elitism.

Elitism is grouping ppl based on their achievements and pretending to be better than others based on that. pretty much what ppl do after reaching 1 hour on survival and complaining about ppl wanting balance because that would ruin their "achievement".

 

Another examples are leagues in lol, even if getting higher is nowhere dependant on your actual skill but teams incompetence, team compositions and in many occasions luck or ppl doing heroic raids on wow, they will never look again at lfr unless they can get anything from it and will look down on anyone doing it.

 

Ofc not everyone is like that.

 

Choosing better option is just being rational.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Cursor]

If they all perform well at the 35+ range, it means that they will obliterate lower level enemies, that's why sidegrades are good in games where there is no progression, like TF2.

 

In Warframe, there IS a progression system, the problem is, as you say it, it's not noticeable, since you can go from Mk1 Braton to Latron Prime pretty easily, without even bothering with other weapons.

 

Maybe I just see different players than you, but from what I've seen most Warframe players have absolutely no compunction about bringing their biggest, baddest guns to the lowest level missions. I, like many people, grind Tethys a lot, and it's no surprise to see at least one or more players stocked with all the flavors of the month. Usually that means Rhino/Rhino Prime (wearing a Vanguard), currently with Boltor Prime or sometimes Soma, Dual Ichors or Zoren if they don't like spending time on the ground or waiting for their teammates.

 

Very few people downgrade just because they're doing low level missions if they're not leveling something. Do you ever, ever see someone carrying a Lato just because? Or Spectra? Or hell, even Grakata, which even after a buff people still don't seem to care about? Because I sure don't.

 

I'm not saying there shouldn't be progression, it just shouldn't be so steep. It's hard to justify the something like the Spectra when weapons like the Brakk or Marelok exist.

[GTG3000]

It's actually the opposite. Critical and status chances for shotguns and pellet guns reflect the value for the entire shell, not each pellet.

 

Still, the pistol shotguns fire quickly enough to proc at reasonable rates, especially with multishot and event mods.

 

Overall Pyrana is what everyone's taking it to be, no usurper to Brakk's throne but an interesting enough premise. I can't wait to try it myself, I'm a sucker for that kind of antique/western aesthetic on Tenno weapons.

 

That was "fixed" some time ago by DE, to be that the shown % is one of the whole shot.

 

I agree that the Detron and the Brakk should be comparable, regardless of how strong they are. The fact that Brakk is so plainly superior in so many ways to a weapon that literally requires the exact same amount of effort to get is really frustrating.

 

I'm perfectly fine with there being alternatives to the Brakk, I never said there weren't. In fact, that's how things should be. I didn't say Brakk was superior to everything, just many things. Most. Quite a lot.

 

In my experience, detron is actually way harder to get... I got two parts randomly so far, and couldn't get the harvester to appear ever since, even with four marked people farming for whole day.

[Cursor]

In my experience, detron is actually way harder to get... I got two parts randomly so far, and couldn't get the harvester to appear ever since, even with four marked people farming for whole day.

 

While I can't say for sure that's actually the case, I don't know the numbers, this just makes the discrepant power levels between the Brakk and Detron all the more baffling.

[Janzer]

Brakk's still kinda hard for some to get due to RNG, so any alternate is not acceptable unless it's the same level of power? I don't think so. I don't think so. Why is it that every weapon must have the same properties?

 

Maybe, gasp, we all don't have to use the most overpowered weapons in the game all of the time. Missions can be situational, so you can equip your non-brakk non-soma non-rhino stuff when you don't have to play for 9 hours ODD sessions. Bit of an exaggeration, but damn, I get tired of hearing people whine about only certain weapons being viable based on over 60 minute session games.

[Cursor]

Brakk's still kinda hard for some to get due to RNG, so any alternate is not acceptable unless it's the same level of power? I don't think so. I don't think so. Why is it that every weapon must have the same properties?

 

Weapons that have virtually identically effort and cost required to getting them and were, by design, mirrors of one another should, yes, be the same or very similar power level.

 

Also, I don't really care about hour long endless defense or whatever wave you want to get to. I've never bothered with that and I never will. I just want the game's content to be balanced properly.

[GTG3000]

While I can't say for sure that's actually the case, I don't know the numbers, this just makes the discrepant power levels between the Brakk and Detron all the more baffling.

 

It's 3% per marked guy for Harvester. Not sure about grustag, but they appeared near instantly after me getting the mark every time.