June 6Th: Community Hot Topics!

[Metalarcher]

I think something that was overlooked in the livestream and here as well were notionphil's points on better dumb enemies without making bullet sponges out of them.  I wouldn't argue that AI changes are appreciated, but when you get in ult range of a Crewman or Lancer...no amount of AI will prevent them from stepping out of your ultimate and surviving.

 

The attention the devs gave it was in a sort of vague "we need cannon fodder enemies" direction.  I don't like what that implies, really.  Sounds to me like he was saying that enemies should be weak to make the player feel powerful, which contradicts itself because if an enemy is weak and your Warframe is powerful, it does not make the player feel like they did anything to deserve to defeat their enemy.  I understand that there should be some enemies that have more of a "swarm" dynamic as opposed to being super powerful on their own, but right now the Crewmen, Lancers, and Chargers aren't even that.

 

It would be nice to know exactly what the enemy team meant instead of having to speculate, as well as whether certain "big updates" like this are in the pipeline at all.  Though I understand exact dates for released features and reworks are a bit hard to nail down, I think it would put myself and a lot of the community at ease if someone at DE said "we understand the need for stronger enemies as well as toning down the ultimate spam that partially makes them so helpless, and we will be working on solutions."

 

Just a piece of information that invariably states that you guys are working on the big problems.  I wouldn't even mind seeing the changes a year from now, as long as I knew there was some hope for challenging gameplay in the future, among other things.

 

SO IN SUMMARY:  If we could get confirmation about DE's views on the difficulty of the game (as well as other features) and what they are or will be doing to change it, that would be pretty cool.

 

Or maybe this point is moot because the Suspicious Shipment-style gametype will be a new thing in U14.  Even just that would alleviate a lot of the concerns I have with the game currently.

[Pendragon1951]

So, announce new stuff before we announce new stuff? 

Cute answer but not productive, let me give you an example, "The new Prime Warframe will be Loki Prime which will be release this Wednesday", see how simple that was, no reason for anyone to datamine or release little gifs of the next prime, with that small statement you've quashed any reason to datamine or the release of leaked information. One thing that I thought was great that DERebecca did was she gave a preview of what was actually coming on Wednesday update, which I wish I could remember which one it was because I would reference it for you. In any case, my comment on your response.

[(PSN)edwinp426]

Referring to the Founders, "No active plans" and "We're not going to" can be very different. Previous statements have been more along the lines of the latter, as a definite, "we will not be releasing founders items again". My understanding was that founders exclusives were not coming back, period. If this has changed, just come out and explicitly say so. If not, just say they will remain exclusive. Deal with the consequences of your decision instead of continuing to act indecisive, because all that statement is telling me is "we're gonna keep being indecisive about this stuff because we don't wanna &!$$ anyone off because of a decision/promise we made and reiterated several times."

 

What of exclusives that are not tied to an event, like the Braton and Lato Vandal?

 

Additionally, about the AI. More enemy types with new mechanics is good and all, but at the end of the day, we can still very easily kill them. All it does is shift priorities depending on which is most dangerous based on how annoying it can be. Even the inclusion of support units, like a lot of people in the contests were making, will just make a shift in priorities.

 

At this point, all enemies essentially try to swarm you, like the infested. It's just that the Grineer and Corpus are slower, and they do damage as they come at you. A damage increase won't fix this. A health/armor increase won't fix this, because no matter how big it gets, or how hard it hits, it's still the same thing.

 

Basically, change how the enemies act.

- Make the pathing for finding cover better.

- Make them NOT run towards a Vortex just because their melee (I mean, seriously?), make them try to avoid Teslas, Primed teammates, and all that.

- Make them move around their comrades and mobile cover like Volt's shield.

- Make them shoot more accurately.

- Make them shoot, appropriately (ie. what's the point of coming out of cover and shooting at a Tenno that's hiding behind cover? Seriously?)

- Corpus crewmen should value their lives more, and have more proxies. 

- Have squads, platoons, battalions of these grineer and crewmen/robotics attacking us. Horde rush is fine with infested, but I expect more from a highly trained militaristic empire.

I think if they don't want people to be angry about the fact that they can't get the founder packs exclusive DE should either say "founders pack will never be available period" or "we are planning on releasing another pack of exclusive items for players who have supported the game after the founders pack became unavailable".

[Seele]

I can very briefly summarize the extent of exclusivity which could be righteously represented in Warframe.

 

-Founder's items.

 

And I have yet to receive a response in regards to the numerous other items which have remained exclusive. Most intelligent players should accept the fact that Founder's items were advertised as exclusive and so they should remain. What about everything else?

[Metalarcher]

Cute answer but not productive, let me give you an example, "The new Prime Warframe will be Loki Prime which will be release this Wednesday", see how simple that was, no reason for anyone to datamine or release little gifs of the next prime, with that small statement you've quashed any reason to datamine or the release of leaked information. One thing that I thought was great that DERebecca did was she gave a preview of what was actually coming on Wednesday update, which I wish I could remember which one it was because I would reference it for you. In any case, my comment on your response.

Or, you know, you could just wait for information on added content like anyone else.  That would be fine too.  Why is it killing people to wait for content announcements?  Normally we don't even see stuff like the Sybaris or Pyrana until they're actually in the game and no one complains about that!

[(PSN)edwinp426]

Cute answer but not productive, let me give you an example, "The new Prime Warframe will be Loki Prime which will be release this Wednesday", see how simple that was, no reason for anyone to datamine or release little gifs of the next prime, with that small statement you've quashed any reason to datamine or the release of leaked information. One thing that I thought was great that DERebecca did was she gave a preview of what was actually coming on Wednesday update, which I wish I could remember which one it was because I would reference it for you. In any case, my comment on your response.

That was actually the Hydroid. Rebecca let that one leak out during the developer's livestream I thought it was really cool of her since most people had already guessed at what the frame element would be.

[Pendragon1951]

@Metalarcher I was originally responding to the question of datamining and leaked info problem they were having and how they may solve it, also as (PS4)edwinp428 referenced that DERebecca previewed a few things that were coming for that weeks update, I think if they did that that would be great, they may not be able to preview everything obviously but a few things would be great IMHO.

[theammostore]

So, announce new stuff before we announce new stuff? 

Give us a run-down, play by play of what's being worked on and in what stage. Doesn't have to be anything specific or with super details, just something like 'currently modelling the Eye's of Saturn,' if when giving an update on Proxy Wars. You know how on an install screen it'll say something like 'installing: C:\Program Files\Games\game\music.ogg'? Something like that. A sense that things are moving along, progressing. Anything that's been stated as 'in the works,' could get a little thing at the top of the website, next to the announcement box, saying: 'current status of: Corpus freezeray.'

 

And if you get Redtext in the works you can have some great community laughs. "Current status on: Corpus Freezeray: Currently heating things up." "Current status on Sword and Board: Making me wonder if Dark Souls is available in my store." See what I mean?

[BloodArmoredApostle]

I suspect that even a response etched in stone would not stop people from wanting to discuss reintroducing founders items. As long as the threads are respectful and productive, that's ok.

We've made a few statements about founders gear (like the one in my original post). We have no active plans to re-release founders gear (maybe if the sun is about to implode, or something, we might consider it). 

 

This is definitely a good point. It will still show up regardless of the fact, because thats how things go in general. I can see what your getting at here....now the vandal weapons which are another huge debate. Can we get any clarification on those weapons? That would make it easier to handle information wise for the community, and it would settle a lot of questions regarding it.

[[DE]Drew]

 "The new Prime Warframe will be Loki Prime which will be release this Wednesday", see how simple that was, no reason for anyone to datamine or release little gifs of the next prime, with that small statement you've quashed any reason to datamine or the release of leaked information. 

Except people still want images, stats, package details, etc. I get your point, and I'll pass it along, but there's more behind the problem of leaks and data mining than just the name of the next thing being released. 

[[DE]Drew]

But does this mean there are any active plans to re-release the exclusive, non-founders' gear? Will the "vanilla" weapons (Ether Daggers, Machete, Boar, Snipetron, Gorgon) which have been pulled from the conventional means of acquisition be reintegrated?

 

I imagine butts would be hurt (however unreasonably) if the Wraith and Vandal weapons recycled, which despite myself I understand and sympathize, but I've yet to hear a compelling argument to maintain exclusivity on the aforementioned. It's not really hurting us high-level players, it's just denying a potential favorite gun to a new player, and imposing further limitation as far as filling out the remaining mastery ranks goes. While the prime/wraith/vandal/dual scheme helps squeeze more mastery XP out of less developer initiative (for example, Bronco, Akbronco, Bronco Prime, Akbronco Prime), we still don't have half of the necessary content to reach rank 30, and there also needs to be enough publicly accessible content for everyone to reach rank 30 when that day comes, not just founders who have also dutifully gathered all the event-exclusive weapons.

 

You're not the first person to ask. I've passed along this question, but I don't have anything to relay at the moment. 

[[DE]Drew]

Give us a run-down, play by play of what's being worked on and in what stage. Doesn't have to be anything specific or with super details, just something like 'currently modelling the Eye's of Saturn,' if when giving an update on Proxy Wars. 

 

I totally agree, and we're working towards more play-by-plays (like with the Devstreams, for example). 

[Kraosdada]

He explicitly said No Active Plans for Founder Stuff At This Time. All Other Stuff (Vandals, Proto Excal, Wraiths (Red Veil stuff), etc...) including Prime Access Stuff (Syandanas, Sugatras, Extractors) Is Free Game

[Nkomo-Sama]

You're not the first person to ask. I've passed along this question, but I don't have anything to relay at the moment. 

You sir are possibly being tentatively slow trolled...I applaud you for your patience and  above all we appreciate the conversation. You have been very clear, there is very little ambiguity and I appreciate that. People are going to try and squeeze as much info as possible cuz...humans. No spoilers please we will get the info as soon as it is made public I am sure. Patience is a virtue...etc...

[Nkomo-Sama]

I totally agree, and we're working towards more play-by-plays (like with the Devstreams, for example). 

This is a really cool idea.

[Kraosdada]

personally i think there should be more than 102 Primed Chambers, or an easier way to get Stances or Rhino Prime, as i think this game's RNG is Controlled by Loki Prime and his Loki cronies.

[OniDax]

You're not the first person to ask. I've passed along this question, but I don't have anything to relay at the moment. 

 

Does DE view an Aklato Prime or Dual Skanas Prime, using the same models and textures as the single variants, as something that would invalidate the Founders exclusive agreement? I'd like to know how DE views these items as it helps to know how DE views these items when discussing them. It's a hot topic but one that isn't resolved because we don't know DE's official position on items that look like Founders items. So, I guess the properly worded question is: "Does the Founders agreement rule out a separate, non-exclusive release of new items that visually look the same as the exclusive items released with the Founders program?"

[H3dsh0t]

[DE]Drew you have the patience of a saint and must be applauded for that. But at the end of the day all thats happening is that people hope that there will be enough posts/threads/whine to grind you guys down into doing something you don't particularly want to do. Phrases like no active plans give people false hope that it might happen, just say categorically no, job done, reference point for all these pointless discussions that come up.

 

Event rewards being re-released would be awesmome (Primed chamber please, been waiting for that for a long time) but not the Braton Vandal/Lato Vandal or Excal Prime or the founders gear. Personally I would love the Braton/Lato Vandal, and a shot at being able to buy into the design council, but its not happening and i'm not bothered by it. The people that did it at the time, and invested money in warframe while it was still building its way into a full game deserve it. To those that call the people that own these things self entitled, should probably look at yourself "if they have it why can't I, I should be able to" sounds pretty self entitled to me.

 

Also, Drews point about announcing things before they announce it is pretty valid. They announced Loki Prime with a kickass trailer, what else do you want, are you seriously that impatient that you can't wait until it is announced, and then complain it wasn't announced before they actually could.. Still no need to go ahead and datamine and reveal it on the forums before the announcement. Drew i guess the only way to stop this is to not allow any trace of the new stuff in the current client version, unless thats not actually possible.

 

Drew, your doing a great job keep it up bro!

 

Edit: P.S Please Buff the Supra :)

Edited June 9, 2014 by H3dsh0t

[Kraosdada]

Everyone calm down, we don't wannget this thread locked

[Nkomo-Sama]

Does DE view an Aklato Prime or Dual Skanas Prime, using the same models and textures as the single variants, as something that would invalidate the Founders exclusive agreement? I'd like to know how DE views these items as it helps to know how DE views these items when discussing them. It's a hot topic but one that isn't resolved because we don't know DE's official position on items that look like Founders items. So, I guess the properly worded question is: "Does the Founders agreement rule out a separate, non-exclusive release of new items that visually look the same as the exclusive items released with the Founders program?"

.....Wouldn't you prefer a Aklex Prime and a Dual Dragon Nikana? Im Prit-tee sure I'd rather those instead..Yea it'd be cool to use the argon crystals to do a prime upgrade but to me it would only be justified if only the founders were able to do so...cuz exclusivity and stuff (btw I have neither the Skana prime nor the Lato Prime... I just think it would be fair because those who were able chose to donate so much at such a pivotal point in development... if I had more at the time I would have made at least Master)

Edited June 9, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[Beasy63]

Why are people still going on about founders packages..its a founders package for a reason. Its obvious DE doesnt want to re-release it because its exclusive to people who contributed to the game on a wider scale then just buying plat. Even if you dont want your founders package then dont use it..simple. No need to keep baiting DE to re-release something that was from the start supposed to stay exclusive. I understand some people want to have all the frames and primes or whatever but just accept the fact that you cant have them all to the point where its OCD about it. I swear if it was another developers studio that just says "heres the game" there wouldnt be any question whether or not things could be re-released but yet you would play the game anyway.

[Chroia]

 

I felt the reply to the "Forget Better AI - We Need Better Dumb Enemies" (aka better enemy mechanics to improve survivability) thread was thoughtful, but incomplete.

 

Daniel and co <snip> also provided a reference to the Prosecutors RNG defense, which is not a successful mechanic to make combat more engaging. Pre-misson loadout? Sure. Combat? Not really.

 

Not even, really. Just bring a slash weapon. :/

(Which is just as well, really. Not everyone can cover all 4 elements solo, and that requires (gasp!) some actual preplanning/coordination from a PUG.

Which, given that tmk people farm them in Defence missions... Yeah.)

 

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Somewhat textwall:

 

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FWIW: My take on exclusives - 

Founder stuff should be exclusive.

Event stuff, well.

My biggest problem with the Tethra / Cicero mods is that they're your only option if you're trying to stack status.

Don't have them? (iirc) 25% status max on a non-primary, ~35% on a primary; vs ~double that.

Which, assuming that procs stack, is a pretty big deal.

 

Also, Mastery soft-caps.

With trades per day (and rumors of Focus) depending on Mastery rank... *shrug*  :/

That's why I've bothered exceeding MR8.

(Also, perfectionism/OCD.)

 

Possibly I'd feel differently about it if, say, Rhino P were exclusive, but I'm not too chuffed about Excal. I'd like the Latos, but I won't miss them too much.

 

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Re: Dev stream 30 (Should this go here?  If not; where?)

 

* I forget the setup, but they were talking about working on the bosses visually.

I'd like to point out that Ruk, a boss that (currently) requires that you hit specific locations during vulnerability windows, is entirely hidden by the fire when he Fireblasts / Infernos in waves 2/3.

 

* There was mention of implementing harder bosses as 'Nightmare mode' bosses, but the concern was the reward structure.

This may be a stupid question, but why not implement them in the existing reward framework - for the trial run, without the risk of opening them up for 0-day abuse?

 

 

=========

 

Re: Dev stream 29 (As above)

 

Valkyr's new combo chains look cool :3

The one exception that leapt out at me was the last hit in the default combo chain.

A sweeping front kick really has no place serving as a finisher after that heavy thrust kick. It won't have generated enough momentum, given that the two legs are so close together after the thrust kick.

(I could offer alternatives, but I'm not sure it's my place to.)

 

I'd been wondering whether mod placement affects anything other than elemental combos.

Then there was the piece about the new Solar Rail conflicts, with the 'mods coming online as you level'.

There are several items/frames that have (default) polarities in slots 6-8. Is this intentional and/or will it be re-looked at?

 

Glenn made a comment about T4 not being just an upscaling from t3.

I cannot +1 that enough.

 

Tangent/related - The scariest creatures aren't the ones that hit you (unless you're sufficiently vertically mismatched as to be effectively 1shotted).

They're the ones that remove control of the character from the player.

Knockdown (e.g. any charge attack), stun (e.g. Flameblade(?) teleport), that ****ing drain (unavoidable Eximus aura, Disruptors).

Edited June 9, 2014 by Chroia

[Kraosdada]

Does DE view an Aklato Prime or Dual Skanas Prime, using the same models and textures as the single variants, as something that would invalidate the Founders exclusive agreement? I'd like to know how DE views these items as it helps to know how DE views these items when discussing them. It's a hot topic but one that isn't resolved because we don't know DE's official position on items that look like Founders items. So, I guess the properly worded question is: "Does the Founders agreement rule out a separate, non-exclusive release of new items that visually look the same as the exclusive items released with the Founders program?"

Holy Molly you still don't get it, He already said NO ACTIVE PLANS AT THIS TIME OR IN THE NEAR FUTURE. sorry for being rude, that does not mean No Plans Ever, it means "Wait a Few Years and We'll see.

[theammostore]

I totally agree, and we're working towards more play-by-plays (like with the Devstreams, for example). 

Thank you kindly. I feel that would certainly help people be less frustrated and willing to datamine.

[Metalarcher]

I totally agree, and we're working towards more play-by-plays (like with the Devstreams, for example). 

PRAISE DE!