Should The Boltor Prime Be Nerfed?

[Casardis]

The damage is fine. It's completely normal for weapon to have tier. Our current top tier weapon exceed the level of T3 content. That's a problem that DE need to fix. But not by nerfing, because that would be going backward. DE should release the next tier content instead.

And in the process make even more people having to rely on super specific restricted builds to be remotely useful because DE balance difficulty around the OP weapons? That's a horrible idea and would go back to Warframe stone age where it's all about armor ignoring weapons.

People are so afraid of nerfs even on a weapon that's clearly way too powerful. Some people don't even ask for a big nerf, just bringing it a bit in line while still making it the most powerful weapon. That way, if DE balances new content, it won't render many weaker weapons obsolete just to compensate the strength of the ridiculously powerful ones.

Whatever the case, seeing how DE works most of the time with balance, they probably won't nerf it. However they NEED to put a high mastery lock on this.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Casardis

[Neogeo]

And in the process make even more people having to rely on super specific restricted builds to be remotely useful because DE balance difficulty around the OP weapons? That's a horrible idea and would go back to Warframe stone age where it's all about armor ignoring weapons.

People are so afraid of nerfs even on a weapon that's clearly way too powerful. Some people don't even ask for a big nerf, just bringing it a bit in line while still making it the most powerful weapon. That way, if DE balances new content, it won't render many weaker weapons obsolete just to compensate the strength of the ridiculously powerful ones.

Whatever the case, seeing how DE works most of the time with balance, they probably won't nerf it. However they NEED to put a high mastery lock on this.

You don't get the whole picture. Top tier weapon to conquer top tier content(t4?). Less powerful weapon for mid tier content(t3). Newbie weapon like braton for newbie content(T1/2).

The tier system is working fine. The only thing missing is higher tier content. This isn't a straight foward shooter like cod, we don't need every weapon to do similar damage. It's fine to have different level of weapon strength. Warframe is a shooter with some RNG element.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Neogeo

[AttAckA]

i dont even understand what he was saying. nor did i see any actual reason to "nerf" the boltor prime... this thread made my brain hurt

[Vaskadar]

The damage is fine. It's completely normal for weapon to have tier. Our current top tier weapon exceed the level of T3 content. That's a problem that DE need to fix. But not by nerfing, because that would be going backward. DE should release the next tier content instead.

 

You're joking, right? This doesn't solve the problem of borked difficulty curve anyhow.

 

DE is so limp-wristed with its weapon adjustments that I wonder if they even bother looking at their game's balance... at all. I mean, they really shouldn't pander to the playerbase that uses the Boltor Prime strictly, it also is a mark of major inconsistency amongst prime weapons. The damage increase is negligible for many other prime weapons, however Boltor Prime has a 120% damage increase, a fire rate increase, a major accuracy increase, a status chance increase, even a crit damage increase, and its original counterpart has none of that. The Boltor Prime is the ultimate weapon because you can stack tons of elemental mods on it, and it will still out-dps most other optimal builds at more ranges, and it can basically do everything in the game. That's not balance.

 

Balance is being good at one specific thing, or being average at everything else. Roles are necessary for balance. A sniper should have really high burst damage, but an automatic rifle should deal reliable, yet average damage. Fire rate should be related to accuracy, too.

 

The weapon just does everything. I threw a forma (and catalyst) into it, came to realize I don't want cheese mode in Warframe, and it's really bad for the game to continue down this path, and started using other weapons. I have a mastery rank 14. For this game not to devolve into one-weapon-above-all, Boltor Prime, Brakk, Marelok, Soma, Stug, Angstrum, Ogris, Penta all have very small, if nonexistent downsides for their incredible power and should be nerfed, in one way or another.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Let's say someone does have just the regular Boltor, a half modded frame. He essentially plays on a more or less equal difficulty level than someone with multiforma Boltor Prime and maxxed frames at higher levels.

 

I don't even think Bolter Prime should get nerfed. What would be worst case szenario? Everyone playing with Boltor Prime. If I'd see that - like Nova/Galatine/Soma-people a few months ago - I would take pride using other stuff and move on.

[Vaskadar]

Let's say someone does have just the regular Boltor, a half modded frame. He essentially plays on a more or less equal difficulty level than someone with multiforma Boltor Prime and maxxed frames at higher levels.

 

I don't even think Bolter Prime should get nerfed. What would be worst case szenario? Everyone playing with Boltor Prime. If I'd see that - like Nova/Galatine/Soma-people a few months ago - I would take pride using other stuff and move on.

 

That's still just turning a blind eye to the problem, though.

[SIDESTRE4M]

That's still just turning a blind eye to the problem, though.

 

The problem is the massive amount of users who think they need that gun to achieve something brilliant.

I'm in for better balancing, don't get me wrong.

 

There was a tournament for Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo back then and the community knew that Sagat was literally OP. So they avoided using him and the people who really used him weren't even the best.

 

And here it's just PvE. I know that argument is lame and I hate that argument everytime I hear it too, because even PvE need proper balancing.

What I wanted to say:

People need another mind setting.

Edited June 11, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Vaskadar]

The problem is the massive amount of users who think they need that gun to achieve something brilliant.

I'm in for better balancing, don't get me wrong.

 

There was a tournament for Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo back then and the community knew that Sagat was literally OP. So they avoided using him and the people who really used him weren't even the best.

 

And here it's just PvE. I know that argument is lame and I hate that argument everytime I hear it too, because even PvE need proper balancing.

What I wanted to say:

People need another mind setting.

 

The thing is, most will go for the path of least resistance, and you can't really change that. People will always go for a perceived advantage. The funny thing is, I have outdamaged people who were using Boltor Prime with an anemic primary beforehand (mostly because I go to the enemies first). It's just boring to use the most powerful weapon in the game. Doesn't give any sense of challenge at all. Even though T4 is being introduced, that's just a bandaid for the underlying problems with the game's lack of balance.

 

Balance does not mean equal, it simply means good at different things, things that others cannot do. If there's tremendous power, there also needs to be a tremendous downside to using it. Bows are balanced because of that. They're slow, have projectile travel time, an arcing projectile, and can shoot only one at a time.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Vaskadar

[SIDESTRE4M]

I agree on that. Sadly.

[BabyKurama]

Why do you want to nerf a weapon we need them for high end games

Edited September 28, 2014 by BabyKurama

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

Boltor Prime doesn't need to be nerfed. People need to stop putting forma on it.

[Dasmir]

Boltor Prime doesn't need to be nerfed. People need to stop putting forma on it.

 

500 unmoded dps ?

 

Im sure De will "nerf" boltor prie with soma prime, the circle of power creep never ends.

[vaugahn]

Balance does not mean equal, it simply means good at different things, things that others cannot do. If there's tremendous power, there also needs to be a tremendous downside to using it. Bows are balanced because of that. They're slow, have projectile travel time, an arcing projectile, and can shoot only one at a time.

 

And that's the problem with the Boltor Prime. What's its downside? Is there any situation in which it is not the best?

 

Why do you want to nerf a weapon we need them for high end games

 

Infinite content is not something we should balance to. 

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

500 unmoded dps ?

 

Im sure De will "nerf" boltor prie with soma prime, the circle of power creep never ends.

Forma and potatoes were supposed to be used on weak weapons in order to bring them up to par. The Boltor Prime can do fine without forma or potatoes, and it was designed to be used like that. Of course it's going to be OP if you put 6 forma on it, but you're not supposed to.

[Dasmir]

Forma and potatoes were supposed to be used on weak weapons in order to bring them up to par. The Boltor Prime can do fine without forma or potatoes, and it was designed to be used like that. Of course it's going to be OP if you put 6 forma on it, but you're not supposed to.

 

Worst balance logic ever.

 

Just cut the RoF to 5-7 so it will be in pair with other primes.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Dasmir

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

Worst balance logic ever.

 

Just cut the RoF to 5-7 so it will be in pair with other primes.

Well then you might as well tell that to Scott, because I'm almost certain that was the original intention when they came up with forma. Weapons should be balanced around their unformaed unpotatoed performance.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

And that's the problem with the Boltor Prime. What's its downside? Is there any situation in which it is not the best?

 

 

Infinite content is not something we should balance to.

Well, for one, it is incredibly boring to use along with its non-prime counterpart. Feels like shooting a water gun while wearing a hazmat suit and ear plugs in the rain at midnight.

Exactly, which is why weapons should be balanced around their unformaed unpotatoed performance.

[vaugahn]

Well, for one, it is incredibly boring to use along with its non-prime counterpart. Feels like shooting a water gun while wearing a hazmat suit and ear plugs in the rain at midnight.

Exactly, which is why weapons should be balanced around their unformaed unpotatoed performance.

 

"Boring" is not a downside. 

 

And if we're balancing like that, then forma and potatoes should be impossibly hard to get. What we should balance around is a theoretical average DPS.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

"Boring" is not a downside. 

 

And if we're balancing like that, then forma and potatoes should be impossibly hard to get. What we should balance around is a theoretical average DPS.

It makes the weapon not fun to use, which is kind of the whole point of casual games like this.

Potatoes already are. Forma should be reverted back to the 0.3% drop it had.

[xkillo32]

why are people complaining about boltor prime when latron prime has more dps?

i don't get it

[Paradoxbomb]

Why do you want to nerf a weapon we need them for high end games

 

If you need a single gun in order to play high end games, that's a problem in itself. All prime weapons should be within a similar range of power/viability, after which your "high end" content can be adjusted according to the new norm.

[Azawarau]

Why do you want to nerf a weapon we need them for high end games

Infinite content is not end game

 

It too far overpowers other weapons and needs to be brought into line

 

More powerful than others but not leaving everything else in the dust entirely

 

Boltor Prime doesn't need to be nerfed. People need to stop putting forma on it.

Why?

 

Forma and potatoes were supposed to be used on weak weapons in order to bring them up to par. The Boltor Prime can do fine without forma or potatoes, and it was designed to be used like that. Of course it's going to be OP if you put 6 forma on it, but you're not supposed to.

Thats wrong

 

Forma and potatoes are meant to be used on every weapon

 

If it wasnt it wouldnt have the option

 

And even if this were true theres no way players would just not use potatoes at the very least

 

Theres no reasoning behind this post at all

 

Well then you might as well tell that to Scott, because I'm almost certain that was the original intention when they came up with forma. Weapons should be balanced around their unformaed unpotatoed performance.

"Almost"

 

Well, for one, it is incredibly boring to use along with its non-prime counterpart. Feels like shooting a water gun while wearing a hazmat suit and ear plugs in the rain at midnight.

Exactly, which is why weapons should be balanced around their unformaed unpotatoed performance.

Right

 

Every weapon should be balanced around lvl 45 without potatoes or forma so that anyone that does use a potato or forma can steamroll then come onto the forums and complain about the lack of challenges

 

Can i tell this guy his opinion is wrong yet or will people still stick me on it even when he is?

[Arabaxus]

And that's the problem with the Boltor Prime. What's its downside? Is there any situation in which it is not the best?

 

Hmm, for single target DPS, a Latron Prime/Wraith will outdamage it if you have the decency to aim for the head.

 

Hmm, for endless defense, in the tight north corridor, a single Paris Prime/Dread arrow will do the same work as an entire Boltor Prime magazine. 

 

Hmm, a single headshot from a Paris Prime/Dread does more damage than an entire Boltor Prime clip

 

Hmm, an Amprex sustains DPS equal to Boltor Prime and can deal ridiculous status procs per second, and has a better innate damage for said status.

 

Shall I continue?

[vaugahn]

It makes the weapon not fun to use, which is kind of the whole point of casual games like this.

 

That's subjective though, which makes it a poor downside.

 

Hmm, for single target DPS, a Latron Prime/Wraith will outdamage it if you have the decency to aim for the head.

 

Hmm, for endless defense, in the tight north corridor, a single Paris Prime/Dread arrow will do the same work as an entire Boltor Prime magazine. 

 

Hmm, a single headshot from a Paris Prime/Dread does more damage than an entire Boltor Prime clip

 

Hmm, an Amprex sustains DPS equal to Boltor Prime and can deal ridiculous status procs per second, and has a better innate damage for said status.

 

Shall I continue?

 

Yes, do continue. Because none of those weapons beat the Boltor Prime in sustained DPS, and all of them are either ammo efficient or require headshots.

 

There's is literally no downside to a Boltor Prime. "High damage but requires extreme accuracy" is a downside. "High damage but requires careful ammo management" is also a downside. "high damage and requires no careful aiming or ammo management" is not a downside.

[Azawarau]

Hmm, for single target DPS, a Latron Prime/Wraith will outdamage it if you have the decency to aim for the head.

 

Hmm, for endless defense, in the tight north corridor, a single Paris Prime/Dread arrow will do the same work as an entire Boltor Prime magazine. 

 

Hmm, a single headshot from a Paris Prime/Dread does more damage than an entire Boltor Prime clip

 

Hmm, an Amprex sustains DPS equal to Boltor Prime and can deal ridiculous status procs per second, and has a better innate damage for said status.

 

Shall I continue?

Amprex is short range and really ammo inefficient...

 

With critical delay its not so bad  but the range loss is deadly

 

A boltor that headshots for a single target should be able to beat out a latron prime nee?