Ash's Skills Usless

[thesorrow]

teleport useless shuriken useless weapons are faster and better smoke screen worthless due to pet and blade storm so slow and misses half the targets

[LoRDxDeMoN]

Finally people are realizing this.

[KIll3RX15]

Yea his skills are fun but not very effective he has prolly the most original skills a classic ninja would use

[Triburos]

He's a weaker version of Loki, IMO.

His only real saving grace seems to be Blade Storm, and even then it has a cap as to how many enemies it can hit.

Shuriken isn't worth it's cost imo. Might as well spend 10 more energy for Smoke Bomb and just run in and kill 4-5 enemies rather than 1. Yeah it pierces defense, but I can't say I'd use it on anything besides.. Maybe bosses?

Smoke Bomb's stun is non-existant and is shorter than Loki's. Enough said there I think.

Teleport has that annoying &#! delay on it so that you have to wait before you can strike someone. Quite a pain, much more worth it to just dash jump over to them.

I'd probably fix it so that Shuriken only costs 10-20 power. Sorry but it's just not worth using even with it's decent damage. Maybe reduce the damage it deals, but I still don't have much use for out outside of bosses- and even then Smoke Bombing then using melee might out-damage even three shurikens. Hard to say.

Smoke Bomb needs to last equal to that of Loki's Invisibility or even longer. Loki is a manipulator, he's not so much of a true ninja character.

Blade Storm while okay right now is the only Ultimate to have a fixed damage cap, but I don't think it needs to be changed since max level'd Blade Storm can still do quite a bit of damage.

I personally think Teleport should be able to be used anywhere the Ash points to. Loki can more or less do this with Decoy and Switch Teleport anyways, so it's not like it's broken. Maybe increase the power cost to 35 to compensate or somethin.

Even with all these changes, Loki is still boss simply because of Decoy and Decoy alone. That thing lasts so long that it makes Defense missions an absolute joke, and make enemies on any mission about as easy to take down as taking candy from a baby.

[Anelyn]

I am not agreeing with this.

Shuriken it's great damage (single target or multiple if enemies are lined up) but it could use a minor tweak to pathing (make it like an arrow, to go straight where you aim instead of random yards away from your aiming).

Teleport is amazing. While I agree a short knockdown or stagger would be nice on it, it's still a great tool for moving on battlefield (into the fry or away from it).

Smoke Screen is awesome as it is.

Blade Storm bug will be fixed, appart from that is a great ultimate.

Ash can't be same as Loki, they need to be different. If you want to teleport where you desire, play Loki. However Ash range on teleport is way bigger. Smoke Screen vs Invisi - SS also blinds enemies nearby, and you can't get targeted like Loki Invisi if you use it too close to an enemy.

What I would like for Ash is to change one of the polarities so we have more liberty on mod selection. As long as you pick shields / hp / max power and power efficiency, you can't get sprint speed / stamina / armor / shield recharge etc, since you are forced to take continuity and force power for those 2 slots (or you can use something at low rank since it will double power cost because of different polarity).

[Cheridan]

I don't think that's the case at all. Shuriken does huge amounts of damage on headshots, and teleport is incredibly useful for getting around, especially on large defense maps.Teleport's main flaw is that it's REALLY hard to aim, since your cursor has to be RIGHT on the target. It needs some auto-aim.

Smoke screen is a great. It's a stealth ability, a defensive ability, and an offensive ability (increases crit chance a huge amount) all in one. (It really does need to extend to your sentinel though, since as the OP stated, it becomes useless as a stealth ability when people just see your sent running around.)

And all these skills are really cheap!

Blade storm is ok.

Ash's biggest problem is outlined in the above post. The two V slots are horrible at the moment.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Cheridan

[neKroMancer]

His powers are hard to use.

Shuriken can deal headshot damage (whopping 1000 damage) and hit multiple enemies with innate piercing. However, effective range is ..... low. It also has travel time.

Teleport is the most useless power in Warframe.

Like Loki's invisibility, Smokescreen makes you invisible but not your sentinel. My sentinel got blown to bits because of it.

Bladestrom is strong compared to other AOEs since 1000 unmitigated damage + invulnerable is always good to have. However, it has number of target cap (as it should since pre-balanced you can bladestrom an entire map with one cast, not really good for the game).

[Basara09112023]

Shuriken, Speed and Burst damage. Have a trinity and spam 'til infinity on bosses. They drop in no time.

[Triburos]

I still don't find myself using Shuriken a whole lot, probably because my Paris bow can also hit multiple enemies and take out a nice line of them in one shot. There's really no point in it's high damage if most mobs are dying to my Paris bow anyways. A kill is still a kill, even without over-kill.

25 energy simply isn't worth it, putting aside bosses anyways. And like I said, it's fully possible that if you're built as a melee character- which you most likely are, your melee strikes could very well surpass a spam of shurikens on a boss with the use of Smoke Bomb. Unless you walk into a boss with full energy + Flow and just rape his face with Shurikens.

That I agree with. But in a basic situation of mobs; still worth just using 10 extra energy to clear out half of the room with Smoke Bomb + Continuity mods rather than 25 just to clear one target; two or three if they just happen to be in a line.

Same deal with Teleport; no reason. You'll get close to them sure, but the problem is that it has that stupid delay on it. However, I do believe that delay saves you from knockback from those shockwaves alot of heavy units like to use if you try to melee them first time around without baiting it out.

Edit: A couple of changes I would make to Ash would probably be:

1. Make Smoke Bomb have a longer stun that increases as the skill is leveled, maybe 6 second stun on max level, 2 on first level. Or make it last as long as Loki's invisibility. Ash is the frame designed to be a stealth character, so there's no reason to give a distractor like Loki a longer invis time.

2. Make it so that Ash can Teleport to where ever he wants within the skill's range rather than just targets. Again; this wouldn't really break anything considering that Loki can do it with 50 energy combining Decoy with Switch Teleport. Ash is designed as a typical ninja; ninjas often wind up in unpredictable places. Let me teleport up onto that lamp on the ceiling please. Maybe increase it's energy cost to 35.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Triburos

[WarhawkX]

The shuriken's "Peircing" ability is a sham, it deflects off any enemy you hit in the head with it and it bounces into the ceiling. Killing a so called line of targets with that ability is IMPOSSIBLE in this game.

Meanwhile everyone *@##$ing about the stealth should know, you have 100% crit chance while stealthed. So stop asking for it to be made longer than Loki's.

PLEASE PLAY THE ASH AND UNDERSTAND IT'S ABILITIES BEFORE POSTING!!!

[WarhawkX]

Same deal with Teleport; no reason. You'll get close to them sure, but the problem is that it has that stupid delay on it. However, I do believe that delay saves you from knockback from those shockwaves alot of heavy units like to use if you try to melee them first time around without baiting it out.

Edit: A couple of changes I would make to Ash would probably be:

1. Make Smoke Bomb have a longer stun that increases as the skill is leveled, maybe 6 second stun on max level, 2 on first level. Or make it last as long as Loki's invisibility. Ash is the frame designed to be a stealth character, so there's no reason to give a distractor like Loki a longer invis time.

Obviously has not played the Ash enough to know, you can teleport to OBJECTIVES, instead of enemies.

Also doesn't know you have 100% crit chance while stealthed.

Perfect example of someone who should not be posting gameplay changes until they understand the game well enough to be making correct analysises of the mechanics in the game.

[Noogums]

I keep seeing people complaining that they 'Miss' enemies with Bladestorm.. Do you not see the numbers pop up? It's a guaranteed hit on whatever it targets. I have never missed a single enemy I've struck with that attack. It just has a buggy and slow visual for it, so it might look like it's missing, but the hit isn't dependant on Ash's sword/claw.

The teleport is by far my most-used skill for Ash. It gives him an amazing and unique utility in Defense maps, to take care of enemies on the ring of battle taking cowardly potshots while the tank defends.

Smokescreen is an amazing panic button/melee buff that's saved my &#! multiple times. It is a shame that they keep killing Bubbles, my Shade, while I'm doing it.

[Triburos]

Obviously has not played the Ash enough to know, you can teleport to OBJECTIVES, instead of enemies.

Also doesn't know you have 100% crit chance while stealthed.

Perfect example of someone who should not be posting gameplay changes until they understand the game well enough to be making correct analysises of the mechanics in the game.

Actually; I did know about the Teleport mechanics, which is why I said 'targets' in my edit list of my preferred changes, rather than enemies. Doesn't mean that I would waste 25 energy to get there.

Second; I'm aware of the 100% crit chance while invisible. What's your point? So is Loki's, and he doesn't even need it considering he has Decoy that literally tanks for him for so long, that even without invis he could still walk up and just lulslash everything anyways.Oh yeah- and the 100% crit chance also make Shuriken even more pointless against regular mobs. Sooo there's that.

Consider this as well, Genius; If Loki's Invis is longer and also gives 100% crits, pray tell; what would be wrong with giving Ash that same invis time, considering he's supposed to be the frame that's designed with a heavy emphasis on stealth? "Loki's invisibility costs more thus it should last longer"? Yeah okay- except enemies drop energy like crazy, leveling increases energy pools and Flow along with other energy related mods exist.

But that 100% crit chance isn't the point; Ash is a stealth character. Despite how poorly this game's stealth mechanics are right now, it's pretty clear that he is built to be stealthy. Teleport could get him into potential blind spots if it was done well (as in, being able to Teleport where ever you want), Shuriken I believe is a silent killer, Smoke Bomb lets him move around unnoticed, so on and so forth.

Loki is more of a manipulator rather than a stealth character. He can play stealth with Invisibility alone; and that's where my problem lies; his invisibility should not be downright better than Ash, especially when he has things like Decoy.

Now please; before you blabber again, do try to keep in mind that just because I don't mention everything, doesn't mean that I'm not aware of it. Nothing urks me more than someone who jumps to conclusions, and is rude about it to boot.

And yeah- I have not ever had Blade Storm miss it's targets. It's basically a melee aimbot that also increases the range of your melee strikes to absurd ranges. Never had it miss for me.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Triburos

[Darkeus]

Ash is my main, i know it very well , and i think this warframe needs some tweaks on skills, and yes blade storm can miss the targets and by that i mean: i use the skill on a grp of enemys 7-10 lets say, sometimes despise the fact they are pretty close to each other i still dont hit them all, from what i understand this skill at max lvl hits 12 targets, so tell me if you cant hit 10 targets not far from each other , then this skill is perfect? i think not.

[Zed0]

100% agree.

Was so excited gathering resources for Ash and when I finally got him, I was very disappointed. I would've rather the Loki that I started with than him because:

- Loki can stay invisible twice as long

- Ash's shuriken is useless

- Loki is WAYYY fatser ~ For a classical-ninja (Ash) he's only average speed. I don't understand.

- Although Loki's Radial Disarm is useless imo, Ash's Bladestorm isn't that good either.

******* It would make more sense if Excalibur had Bladestorm and Ash had Radial Javelin (replaces with ninja stars)

[vision2]

Like Loki's invisibility, Smokescreen makes you invisible but not your sentinel. My sentinel got blown to bits because of it.

Yeap as soon as i pop smoke screen my sentinel is dead :(

Also I find it quite disturbing that my character Model completly vanishes. I would like an invis effect that at least outlines your character.

[Triburos]

Ash is my main, i know it very well , and i think this warframe needs some tweaks on skills, and yes blade storm can miss the targets and by that i mean: i use the skill on a grp of enemys 7-10 lets say, sometimes despise the fact they are pretty close to each other i still dont hit them all, from what i understand this skill at max lvl hits 12 targets, so tell me if you cant hit 10 targets not far from each other , then this skill is perfect? i think not.

To be fair, that's not technically the skill 'missing' its enemy. It just fails to 'target' one.

What I ment was that when Ash does his attack, it never misses the enemy. Even if the target is way out of range of the melee model.

I do get what you mean though. I've had Blade Storm miss 1-2 out of it's maximum. Maybe it's because they moved out of range just slightly from where you first started. Ash is indeed quite slow actually teleporting to his locked on enemies. I believe that rather than the enemies being able to walk out of it's range, it should be like 'Once marked, fate is sealed.'. As in, even if they run out of the activation range, if they were still marked, Ash will still teleport to them and kill them.

[SENmeV]

the only problem with ash is that doenst match the description of stealthy assasins at all

all of his abilities cause alert

even teleport wich is supposed to warp ash BEHIND an enemy

[thesorrow]

my point exactly iv been using ash for a while now hes level 27 and i find myself only useing smokescreen and bladestorm my bladestorm misses alot and the number of enemys and effective range is kinda poop i find myself after the specail im standing there eating shots cuz i can move right away and tthere are still enemys right in my face that he didnt kill any stealth option for this class is crap smoke bomb yes i can see its usefullness but i have a sentinal aht doesnt help my stealth when every enemy charges it and thos damn yellow robots start there stomping spree cuz there trying to hit my robot the teleport is crap who cares that i can zip around the map i can do that by running and keep better track where everyone is and i believe they need to make the teleport an attack as well a cross slash as he jumps down outta it the ulti needs to be fixed and quicker imo not this slow &#! slash that takes 20seconds to kill 7 enemys shuriken idc if it does huge damage i got a paris so i dont need the shuriken that bow alone trumps it and so does my dual pistols i think i sold that move cuz it was crap id like to see it replaced with maybe a skill that duplicates him like close and they go out and melee for a couple seconds like the lokis hologram that shoots pistol rounds stealth is still super crap in this game id like to see if flourish

[Nukkie]

TLDR; whats up there, but smoke screen tele are the bestest (sic) things. Great for agressive CC and for stealth, imho

[-GG-Sinevultu]

Shuriken = nice damage but useless for stealth purpose since well... we are ninjas and all but stealth is not our work in this game, more efficent is to nuke enemies.

Smoke bomb = the little stun could be useful as an opener for following greater stun (knockdown) from melee weapons, infact i consider the smokebomb as a simple buff to melee damage (and with that nice invulnerability it is my Gram bestfriend).

Teleport = it has some use, it is just difficult to use since you need an enemy/friendly target, would be more nice with a ground target instead.

Blade storm = it is bugged and costs 125 (with a starting manapool of 150), this means that or i put the mod which reduce the cost of powers or prolly is difficult to use it more than 1-2 times in a game.

De facto i use Ash as a tank since in smoke bomb time and with energy syphon reloading its energy it can go invulnerable most of the time.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Clownsanity

[__Kanade__]

I have another 3 days before Ash is done, I got lucky and got systems and chassis in two back to back alerts and got the Ash blueprint from the daily login reward so I decided to just go ahead an farm for his helmet, got it after 5 sessions.

I know Excaliber so well since I stuck with him ever since I started playing Warframe, that an he is my only frame, while I hear many bad things about Ash, he's really the only true ninja in this game and I prefer to do stealth, so in the end it all works out. Though I will have to think differently about how I will set him up, my Excaliber is built to be tanky and speedy with less on his skills Slash Dash and Radial Javelin so all my skills have the right polarity except for Rest which is in the wrong slot, though Radial Javelin is still level'd so that it can use more Javelins and kill more enemies.

I'm not too familiar with Ash, so it's all new to me, he is the rarest frame I see in-game while the most common frame is Loki, just beating out Excaliber. I am wondering about Bladestorm though, usually when I see big crowds of enemies, I will rush toward them with Excaliber and just use Radial Javelin and insta-kill pretty much the whole room.

But I am going to try my best to make Ash work as I'm more of a solo player. Though I hear he is excellent in party play for support damage an getting around the maps quicker.

Edited April 9, 2013 by __Kanade__

[(NSW)123er432]

As someone new to Ash, I have to say his skills do feel a bit lackluster. I can see what the developers were going for, but they missed the mark.

Shuriken:

-This Skill should be Accurate. Pinpoint Accurate. Maybe take away some of the headshot damage to compensate, but this would make this skill usable at much larger ranges.

-Considering you will (mostly) be using this for single target damage, I see no reason for this skill to be 25 energy. Lower to 10 or 15.

-For someone touted as a stealth killer, this skill sure raises an alarm. Make these kills silent. maybe Make them Incinerate the Body on a kill

Teleport:

- Why is there such a huge delay after casting? Remove the delay for much more streamlined use

- Possibly (instead of removing the delay) give an immediate melee attack if you teleport to an enemy

Smokescreen:

- I simply do not understand why Loki, a manipulator, gets the longest stealth in the game while Ash, the "ninja" frame, is given the short end of the stick. Give him equal to more than Loki's Stealth.

Bladestorm:

- More or less fine as is.

[Cire]

I agree with Triburos and I think both of his ideas are not that bad but I think that the skill that need to be really changed is the damn shuriken (a shuriken that set on alarms OMG) is not that that skill Is bad I know that well aimed has a lot of damage and all but the real problem is that didn’t worth it’s prize as everybody said why I’ll ever waste 25 of energy in a skill that does the same as my weapon does and didn’t even allow me to escape (as Excalibur dash) of hard situation or trick enemies it doesn’t seems right and the point of the loki stealth being longer than Ash didn’t really disturb me but in fact It have a certain logic that Ash invisibility last longer or at least the same cause of his role but the good point on that skill is it’s stun as a counter part of lasting less than loki skill.

And for the delay of the ultimate that everybody is complaining about maybe they can just make that when you pop the ulty 12 clones of Ash (as shadow clones) of you appear from nowhere and kill the 12/7 target don’t know but it will make for sure that skill faster to use and will destroy the delay while keeping the ninja style on it. Maybe it will cause the game lag but I don’t know just a suggestion :D.

[Anelyn]

Ash is perfectly fine as it is. Yes a small CC (1 second max) on teleport wouldn't hurt, but I have YET to teleport to anything and get knocked / stunned / staggered before I can do something, and I did teleport into ancients, elite grineers, shield grineers, melee crewman etc.

Shuriken is not meant as a long range damage skill. Yes it can travel far, but being thrown and not shot, the path varies a bit from your aiming reticle. Best used close / medium range. Damage is very very good (remember it pierces and can hit infinite amount of targets in a line, and also headshot).

Bladestorm is fine as it is, I actually appreciate that it hits cameras and flying units as well. The delay is not affecting bladestorm damage output, it will hit the specified number of targets depending on level, if they are within line of sight of last teleport. And it doesn't miss (never had it happen since update 7).

Smoke screen again is perfectly fine as it is. You want it to last longer, level it up. Add power duration increase % mod.