Sentinels Seem Op

[AlphaPsyCongaroo]

i just fought against someone that was using a sentinel with some kind of beam that always procs poison.. even though i had max vita and steel fiber on my valkyr, it almost or sometimes kills me unless i dodge really well. most sentinels i encounter from randoms i can usually deal with, but this one in particlar... man this one just wrecks.

what do you guys think about those for solar rail pvp? or in general in the context of conclaves?

[TC-Guardian]

That Im guessing would be Djinn, I think that Solar Rail PvP will have to be a lot different to Conclaves for it to actually work, conclaves are currently a game of who can get the first shot in, which wont make for much fun.

[Angius]

Warframe is not and should never be balanced around PvP

/topic

[notionphil]

Warframe is not and should never be balanced around PvP

/topic

Actually, your post has nothing to do with the topic.

[Churpy]

Actually, your post has nothing to do with the topic.

Except for the fact that it does? This is clearly a topic about pvp, and Angius is stating that Warframe is not balanced PvP-wise.

 

It's not like sentinels are the only "OP" thing in pvp..in fact they're so out of the way that I'm surprised this topic exists.

 

PvP is just who can one shot the others first. I've seen many people suggest that the health/shields should be multiplied by 10, and while I think it's a bit more complicated than that, I tend to agree..

Edited June 16, 2014 by Churpy

[Casardis]

Warframe is not and should never be balanced around PvP

/topic

 

True, it shouldn't be balanced AROUND it, but it's possible to make things act differently in PvP compared to PvE, and therefore not affecting PvE when it's used in Conclaves. I'm pretty sure they already balanced certain mods that way, and not many people noticed because, well, nothing was changed on the PvE side.

 

Either way, PvP is still not balanced accordingly, and if it does, it has to stay clear from PvE balance. If something like that can be done better, then we might actually have a fair PvP.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Casardis

[taiiat]

True, it shouldn't be balanced AROUND it, but it's possible to make things act differently in PvP compared to PvE

yes, in other words, you make a second set of stats for everything in the entire game.

 

that's the only way for PvP to work. every single item in the game must have a separate set of stats for PvP.

with a small side of removing 90% of the Abilities, about half of the Guns, about 3/4 of the Mods, and about 3/4 of the Melee Weapons.

 

 

we have a game of PvE content, and you're trying to use it for PvP. good luck. 99% of it is fundamentally not appropriate for PvP, and it's not just the stats, it's the entire way the item works.

[SockBadger]

Warframe is not and should never be balanced around PvP

/topic

Actually, your post has nothing to do with the topic.

 

Both are correct. I would guess that the pvp coming to Warframe will hinge a lot on balances to equipment, warframes, abilities and pets (yes this means you sentinels, not just kubrows, that are exclusive to player on player combat and not affecting the PVE core of the game. taiiat beat me to this point.

 

But what we do know from watching the developers stream is that in this attack and defence similar to moba's but not a moba pvp mode your abilities and even mods will come online as you progress personally in the match and the match itself progresses, with you choosing what comes on and when. Although as a side thought I might add that with the wide array of helpful team abilities on a sentinel, they may not be available to use in this mode; just a thought, but food for thought.

[.Talia.]

nO PVP EVAAAAAAARRR zOMGWTF!!1! DE PLZ I DUN WANNA BE 1 SHOT ON DARK SECTOR!!1

Edited June 16, 2014 by RexSol

[Mastikator2]

Except for the fact that it does? This is clearly a topic about pvp, and Angius is stating that Warframe is not balanced PvP-wise.

 

It's not like sentinels are the only "OP" thing in pvp..in fact they're so out of the way that I'm surprised this topic exists.

 

PvP is just who can one shot the others first. I've seen many people suggest that the health/shields should be multiplied by 10, and while I think it's a bit more complicated than that, I tend to agree..

If something is OP in PVP then it almost certainly OP in PVE. And PVP is a really good place to see it.

 

And being able to one-shot people in PVP is not a problem.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

If something is OP in PVP then it almost certainly OP in PVE. And PVP is a really good place to see it.

 

And being able to one-shot people in PVP is not a problem.

Eh, no. Pvp is you versus 1-2 others. Pve is you versus 1~30 others. If Djinn's stinger is stupidly op in Pve, I should be able to stand still in a group of 15 AI at level 25-30 and expect them all to be killed. It just doesn't work like that.

[Azawarau]

That Im guessing would be Djinn, I think that Solar Rail PvP will have to be a lot different to Conclaves for it to actually work, conclaves are currently a game of who can get the first shot in, which wont make for much fun.

Learn to dodge...

 

Warframe is not and should never be balanced around PvP

/topic

Off topic

 

Get out

 

Except for the fact that it does? This is clearly a topic about pvp, and Angius is stating that Warframe is not balanced PvP-wise.

 

It's not like sentinels are the only "OP" thing in pvp..in fact they're so out of the way that I'm surprised this topic exists.

 

PvP is just who can one shot the others first. I've seen many people suggest that the health/shields should be multiplied by 10, and while I think it's a bit more complicated than that, I tend to agree..

Off topic derailment now

 

You arent wanted here

 

Ifd you dont like pvp stay away from it

 

YOU ARE THE PROBLEM HERE

 

yes, in other words, you make a second set of stats for everything in the entire game.

 

that's the only way for PvP to work. every single item in the game must have a separate set of stats for PvP.

with a small side of removing 90% of the Abilities, about half of the Guns, about 3/4 of the Mods, and about 3/4 of the Melee Weapons.

 

 

we have a game of PvE content, and you're trying to use it for PvP. good luck. 99% of it is fundamentally not appropriate for PvP, and it's not just the stats, it's the entire way the item works.

Thats mostly not true

 

Though many weapons and abilities have to be tweaked its usually only damage or rage lowering

 

All mods can be included and PvP will still be viable

 

 

 

NO PVP EVAAAAAAARRR zOMGWTF!!1! DE PLZ I DUN WANNA BE 1 SHOT ON DARK SECTOR!! 

Like seriously

 

Theyre too used to not having to move and only pressing  a single button to wipe a room

 

Noone knows how to move and shoot anymore

[Churpy]

It was never said that I do not want PvP. I would simply like it to be good or at least playable.

 

You can use absolutely anything and just one hit kill people with it, there's no challenge whatsoever. It's whoever lands the first hit. OP seems to have found that the Dethcube's laser belongs to that category of "absolutely anything". 

 

Not knowing how to move or shoot is absolutely nothing to do with it, it's pretty much all about hiding/running from the opposition until you see an opportune moment to copter in and absolutely melt the crap out of them with melee. Or, stand at the other side of the map and spam a long range weapon and still freaking one shot them.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Churpy

[taiiat]

Though many weapons and abilities have to be tweaked its usually only damage or rage lowering

 

All mods can be included and PvP will still be viable

not at all whatsoever.

 

the majority of Abilities must basically be made extremely bland to be fair in a PvP environment.

you don't see Stomp suspending players. you don't see Bastile suspending players. Miasma doesn't stun players. Sound Quake doesn't stunlock players. i'm pretty sure MPrime doesn't make players move slowly. you see where this is going.

all of these Powers must be made into generic versions of for them to even begin to be fair. most of their unique facets are removed because they would indeed be unfair in a PvP scenario.

 

same deal with Weapons, Status is heavily dulled in PvP, and while Damage is lowered, it isn't really(don't even get me started on the like 3 or 4 Weapons that are super OP in PvP that make up the entire Weapon choices people use there) - the unique facets of quite a few Weapons are either ineffective entirely, or basically useless.

 

 

we just don't have any Equipment designed with PvP in mind. to make them acceptably compatible, requires rebuilding them from the ground up, and removing all of the unique facets of them.

which also means that in PvP, we have way too much content, there's just too many Guns and Melee's for them all to be unique in PvP. a significant portion of them will be reskins of another.

 

 

and since you seem to not think talking about Conclaves and things that are OP in them is on topic - 

 

 

on topic:

Stinger is infact quite powerful in Conclaves, because it has a 100% Chance for Toxin. Vaporize is also quite powerful, since it deals 900 Radiation Damage and once in range and triggered, it can't miss, even if you run away at the speed of light.

i haven't seen them in action, but i feel like Fatal Attraction (if it still does that Miasmaesque effect) could also be considered OP depending on how it operates there.

 

but you see, the way to make things like this fairer in PvP, is to make them generic. so Stinger would not apply Toxin at all, and therefore would just become a useless Sentinel Weapon in PvP, because it would deal more Damage, but shoot so slowly that it would have a Burst and Sustained DPS of jack all. so you made the Weapon lose it's unique facet, and also made it useless at the same time.

:/

 

this is why we need completely separate content for PvP. we can use existing Meshes and names, but everything basically will be completely different from what it is normally.

[DrBorris]

Let's just disable sentinels in conclave, they do not add anything. Someone can equip stinger, run around like a mad man, and have a good chance of winning the round without firing one shot from their gun.

[Azawarau]

not at all whatsoever.

 

the majority of Abilities must basically be made extremely bland to be fair in a PvP environment.

you don't see Stomp suspending players. you don't see Bastile suspending players. Miasma doesn't stun players. Sound Quake doesn't stunlock players. i'm pretty sure MPrime doesn't make players move slowly. you see where this is going.

all of these Powers must be made into generic versions of for them to even begin to be fair. most of their unique facets are removed because they would indeed be unfair in a PvP scenario.

 

same deal with Weapons, Status is heavily dulled in PvP, and while Damage is lowered, it isn't really(don't even get me started on the like 3 or 4 Weapons that are super OP in PvP that make up the entire Weapon choices people use there) - the unique facets of quite a few Weapons are either ineffective entirely, or basically useless.

 

 

we just don't have any Equipment designed with PvP in mind. to make them acceptably compatible, requires rebuilding them from the ground up, and removing all of the unique facets of them.

which also means that in PvP, we have way too much content, there's just too many Guns and Melee's for them all to be unique in PvP. a significant portion of them will be reskins of another.

 

 

and since you seem to not think talking about Conclaves and things that are OP in them is on topic - 

 

 

on topic:

Stinger is infact quite powerful in Conclaves, because it has a 100% Chance for Toxin. Vaporize is also quite powerful, since it deals 900 Radiation Damage and once in range and triggered, it can't miss, even if you run away at the speed of light.

i haven't seen them in action, but i feel like Fatal Attraction (if it still does that Miasmaesque effect) could also be considered OP depending on how it operates there.

 

but you see, the way to make things like this fairer in PvP, is to make them generic. so Stinger would not apply Toxin at all, and therefore would just become a useless Sentinel Weapon in PvP, because it would deal more Damage, but shoot so slowly that it would have a Burst and Sustained DPS of jack all. so you made the Weapon lose it's unique facet, and also made it useless at the same time.

:/

 

this is why we need completely separate content for PvP. we can use existing Meshes and names, but everything basically will be completely different from what it is normally.

Stomp,Bastille,  and most of all M prime slows palyers greatly and have amazing utility in PvP without being entirely broken

 

Now since you took the time to disagree that most abilities wont need to be changed ill take the time to prove you wrong

 

Theres, and this is a short list

 

Slash dash,fireball,frosts # 1, Hydroids cannon ball, Decoy (surprisingly useful), soul punch, smite,well of life,tesla,shock and  tail wind

 

For secondaries

 

Invisibility (just needs a blakc energy fix and maybe increased visibility),accelerant,radial blind,ice wave,physic bolts (or whatever its called),shag carpet, iron skin, molt, E Vamp, Warcry,Bounce,Speed, and that drop thing zephyr does

 

Now ive already gotten a little less than half the abilities without going into 3s and 4s that arent broken and out of laziness refuse to continue but you get the point

 

Most abilities are ok for PvP as they are

 

4s being the biggest offenders and 3s being behind them

 

As for weaponry

 

Its no different. Its literally no different than the way people treat weapons in PvE

 

The stronger weapons are used more often and weaker ones left behind

 

People prefer hitscan to travel time  though a bit more in PvP its still the same

[RancidTurnip1603]

Honestly I think it's the Toxin in general that's OP. Bypasses shields, 50% bonus damage against flesh, a high damage status proc, and it's corresponding resistance mod scales the lowest of all base resistance mods. There's practically no point in even running any other elementals on decent crit weapons because you can just use those other mod slots to up the potential on your toxin damage even more. I suppose radiation would still be decent against those pesky Valkyrs, and magnetic status procs could put a quick stop to Quick thinking, but I digress.

 

The fact that the shot came from a sentinel weapon isn't really the problem in my opinion, the projectile on the stinger has an extremely slow travel, sentinels can hardly aim, and their glowing faces show up as a huge *SHOOT OVER HERE* sign to anyone with a gun.

Edited June 19, 2014 by RancidTurnip1603