I Don't Like Getting One-Shotted. (More Complaining About Stalker)

[Mastikator2]

Just because it's over quickly and he can easily kill you doesn't mean there isn't nuance.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

I'm a little disappointed that so many people saw the OP's prediction of the kind of response this thread was likely to generate, and went right on in with the #skeelz angle.

 

Where were the skills to carefully read the original post and attempt to understand the sentiment expressed? Where were the skills to resist posting the first mental rough draft of "you're playing the game wrong, dog?"

 

This thread is about how the Stalker often kills players so quickly that they can encounter - and be mopped up by - him many times without getting the chance to glean any useful information about how to defeat him.

 

For the sake of argument, I'll assume that at least one of the strategies put forward here works 100% of the time. That doesn't make the Stalker's implementation acceptable. I'd argue that an otherwise-punishing boss who can be cheesed is even worse.

 

The fact that players have found a weakness in his AI does not make the Stalker fine. The fact that such a strategy must be stumbled upon because the game gives us no way to learn about fighting him aside from pure rote should indicate that he is decidedly not fine.

 

I think fights as difficult as the current iteration of the Stalker would be completely fine, as long as the game included systems we could use to learn about the real-time combat behaviors of our enemies. I won't hijack this thread with my old "we need a more informative HUD" spiel, but I think that may be the problem we need to solve first.

 

Uh, you know what, good ol' circle strafing is not a special strategy!  Seriously, people need to understand simple tactics and just employ them.  My sentiment for people who cannot understand and employ a simple thing as that died a long time ago.  The original post was, for lack of a better or nice way of putting it, made by someone who doesn't even understand the most basic intricacies of the game, like how armor works.  Doing what I suggested should be one of the first thoughts when fighting a foe who doesn't use hit-scan projectiles, move in a way which prevents them from leading their shots effectively.

 

Beyond that, the Stalker doesn't inherently one-shot you anyways.  I've been hit by his Dread arrows on a 202/300 Vauban and lived without being dropped to 2 HP (I run QT).  The one-shotting has to be likely due to being headshotted which means the player was basically ADSing and moving almost not at all.  I couldn't even tell you the last time I've ran with either Redirection or Vitality, because nothing in this game warrants their direct need most of the time.

 

Anyways, with that out of the way let's look at something else, the issues with the way in which the stalker fights.  The thing is, we players have ludicrous damage dealing capabilities and supreme available movement capabilities in comparison to all the AI outside of delving deep into survivals/defenses.  The Stalker can't, at the moment, have overly fancy ways of fighting simply because he has to be capable of navigating and fighting within any of the numerous tiles, including the derelict and void.  That being said, if his damage was low he'd be nothing more than a nuisance to be swatted away easily.

 

Despite his overly high damage, every single one of the Stalker's abilities are easily dodged by simply staying mobile without moving in an easily tracked line.  By my second Stalker fight I was already lasting against him for a very long time whilst trying to kill him, eventually dying by my own mishap at hitting a void laser.  If a powerful assassin is coming your way, move.  Simple as that.

 

Trying to get a good "version" of the Stalker isn't easy seeing as he has to be able to work everywhere.  Do I like the way he works, not really.  But it isn't incredibly unfair or even slightly impossible.

[CaptainohCaptain]

or even slightly impossible.

Except for 2 things.

1)You can't stop different effects to prevent tp-stun-slash dash.

2)You can't evade tp-slash dash due to it's AoE radius and movespeed..

So, either you found him in time to get a straight line to kill him easily or you haven't done that and get your undodgeable combo unless you've got yourself a sentinel that will cook him in 0.284 sec.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Icouldjustkissyou

[F1UXie]

Personally, it's just not fun when I fight the Stalker. Whether I beat him or not, it never feels like an epic fight. People either complain he's too easy, or too hard, but how many people really find it rewarding?

 

I'm really not sure how to balance it our so you get a more long drawn out fight. You can't really lower his attack power without making him super easy because people could then just one shot him every time he appears. And if you massively increase his health while lowering attack, people will complain about him being a bullet sponge.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Except for 2 things.

1)You can't stop different effects to prevent tp-stun-slash dash.

2)You can't evade tp-slash dash due to it's AoE radius and movespeed..

So, either you found him in time to get a straight line to kill him easily or you haven't done that and get your undodgeable combo unless you've got yourself a sentinel that will cook him in 0.284 sec.

 

Uh... what?

 

The Stalker teleporting to you does not stun the player, unless a recent PC patch has changed that.  Slash Dash has next to no vertical range, only horizontal and along a straight line.  A simple and well timed jump whilst moving away from the Stalker at an angle dodges the Slash Dash he uses directly after teleporting to you at times.

 

If you're meaning when the Stalker teleports you to him (like a reverse teleport), I've also never been stunned by that.  And, it works the same way, just hop away at an angle and viola, safe.

 

My sentinel is generally Shade without the attack precept.

 

Just like the first of my posts in the thread, I'm not saying the Stalker is well designed from a fun standpoint.  But he never technically cheap shots you.  It's and incredibly un-fun encounter, but despite that it is inherently fair.  I've had my rear end handed to me a number of times against him, but I've beaten him down just as many if not more times.  As F1UXie said though, it's not a rewarding experience.

 

However, as also has been noted, it's not really easy to make the Stalker both fun and menacing/threatening.  In lieu of that I'm just offering advice on how to pretty much beat him 9.5/10 times without the need of a weapon that can OHKO him.

[--Xalted-LuaGuard--]

The skill portion flies out the window when you're a 700shield, 500hp Volt with a max Armor mod, and you get one-shot by this goon.

 

Bloody hell, make it % based damage to keep him a danger to those who have beef-frames, but for the love of god, don't let him one-shot most frames!

 

 

You shouldnt use steel fiber on a frame that has one of the lowest armor ratings to start with. Vitality would have saved you from getting one-shotted, most likely.

 

also, he doesnt one shot most frames. i recommend replacing steel fibre with a Vigour

[--Xalted-LuaGuard--]

and YOU DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND.

right after melee 2.0 came out, Stalker 2.0 DESTROYED EVERYBODY.

his despair could single hit you, and dispel was just introduced. nothing could survive it.

 

so they nerfed him. A LOT. he is not hard, just keep moving. you say in the op:

 

I'm expecting a lot of "just don't get hit!" in this, and I'm tired of seeing it.

 

so what is it that you do? stand still and try to shoot him?

Edited June 19, 2014 by Miracl3

[CaptainohCaptain]

Uh... what?

 

The Stalker teleporting to you does not stun the player, unless a recent PC patch has changed that.  Slash Dash has next to no vertical range, only horizontal and along a straight line.  A simple and well timed jump whilst moving away from the Stalker at an angle dodges the Slash Dash he uses directly after teleporting to you at times.

 

If you're meaning when the Stalker teleports you to him (like a reverse teleport), I've also never been stunned by that.  And, it works the same way, just hop away at an angle and viola, safe.

 

My sentinel is generally Shade without the attack precept.

 

Just like the first of my posts in the thread, I'm not saying the Stalker is well designed from a fun standpoint.  But he never technically cheap shots you.  It's and incredibly un-fun encounter, but despite that it is inherently fair.  I've had my rear end handed to me a number of times against him, but I've beaten him down just as many if not more times.  As F1UXie said though, it's not a rewarding experience.

 

However, as also has been noted, it's not really easy to make the Stalker both fun and menacing/threatening.  In lieu of that I'm just offering advice on how to pretty much beat him 9.5/10 times without the need of a weapon that can OHKO him.

If you got any effects on you, stalker will cast "deny powers" on appearing, forcing you into stagger, mostly coupled with slash dash. When it goes for tp + slash dash without stun, he technically apeears in the air, making it impossible to save yourself by jumping unless you are ALREADY in sprint-jump-dive sequense.

Yes, you CAN win the fight if he went shooting. If he is not? It's sentinel or die.

 

right after melee 2.0 came out, Stalker 2.0 DESTROYED EVERYBODY.

his despair could single hit you, and dispel was just introduced.

Your timeline is screwed. Dispell was introduced long before Melee 2.0

The problems came up when DE decided to give him a way to counter shooting him from the height of crate. With it, he got his awesome combo which is still here.