Heavy Caliber Vs Bane

[Desamos]

For void I could understand heavy caliber, since you fight all 3 factions techniquely but would bane be more effective in seperate factions or would a rank 7 caliber still be a better choice? I'm using sybaris and boltor atm.

[jrkong]

I've never been a fan of bane mods simply because 30% just doesn't justify it for me. Especially for Boltor though Heavy Cal doesn't do that much damage if you're using Split Chamber so I'd save the 3 mod slots you'd use for other things.

[Cynick]

I would be interested in the math behind this due to how Bane is calculated, though I still think Heavy Cal would come out on top. The accuracy loss is really not that detrimental on most things.

[BrotherIcarus]

Well here is an example if anyone cares. 

 

Base damage 100 (Nice and round I am rusty at maths)

Split camber +90

Serration +165

Heavy cal +165 

Total =520

 

Base 100

Split chamber +90

Serration +165

Total 355

Bane +30% = 106

Total with bane = 461

Edited June 18, 2014 by BrotherIcarus

[(PSN)friedricetheman]

I just like heavy caliber in general.

Heck, I even modded my Latron Prime with a Maxed Heavy Caliber for the much touted Stormtrooper experience.

[Darzk]

HCal adds 62.3% DPS, Bane adds 30%. So HCal adds 24.8% DPS over Bane.

 

However, headshots are worth double damage. If HCal causes you to miss a bodyshot or make a bodyshot instead of a headshot one time out of 5, Bane will be better DPS.

 

Some weapons have more than 2x average headshot damage, and thus are less forgiving for missing headshots. For example on the bows with 100% crit, they have a 4x average damage, and if you miss the headshot one shot in 10 because of HCal you're better off using Bane.

 

I use HCal only on AoE and continuous weapons, and the Boltor Prime. Everything else gets bane (or extra corrosive/cold for void).

Edited June 18, 2014 by Darzk

[ThunderZsolt]

Well here is an example if anyone cares. 

 

Base damage 100 (Nice and round I am rusty at maths)

Split camber +90

Serration +165

Heavy cal +165 

Total =520

 

Base 100

Split chamber +90

Serration +165

Total 355

Bane +30% = 106

Total with bane = 461

 

BUT it could work different, like the bane mods multiply by 1.3 instead of adding +30%

i'm pretty sure, that the heavy caliber is only additive, because every mod with the same effect is additive

and the split chamber also multiplies the damage by 1.9, think about it, it doesn't add damage to the rounds, but has a chance to shoot a second bullet with elementals and stuff

 

in that case:

base 100

serration 265 (=100+165)

split chamber 503.5 (=265*1.9)

bane 654.5 (=503.5*1.3)

 

while the other case

base 100

serration 265 (=100+165)

heavy cal 430 (=265+165)

split chamber 559 (=430*1.3)

 

still the HC is better, but i have no idea, what is with the elemental mods...

[Darzk]

BUT it could work different, like the bane mods multiply by 1.3 instead of adding +30%

i'm pretty sure, that the heavy caliber is only additive, because every mod with the same effect is additive

and the split chamber also multiplies the damage by 1.9, think about it, it doesn't add damage to the rounds, but has a chance to shoot a second bullet with elementals and stuff

 

in that case:

base 100

serration 265 (=100+165)

split chamber 503.5 (=265*1.9)

bane 654.5 (=503.5*1.3)

 

while the other case

base 100

serration 265 (=100+165)

heavy cal 430 (=265+165)

split chamber 559 (=430*1.3)

 

still the HC is better, but i have no idea, what is with the elemental mods...

 

This is closer than the other terrible math posted, but you multiplied by 1.3 instead of 1.9 for the second SCs

 

Base 100

Serration +165

HCal +165

Bane TIMES 1.3

SC TIMES 1.9

 

So S.SC.HCal = (100+165+165)*1.9 = 817

And S.SC.Bane = (100+165)*1.3*1.9 = 654.55

 

817/654.55 = 124.8%; HCal is ~25% more DPS than Bane.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Darzk

[ThunderZsolt]

This is closer than the other terrible math posted, but you multiplied by 1.3 instead of 1.9 for the second SCs

 

Base 100

Serration +165

HCal +165

Bane TIMES 1.3

SC TIMES 1.9

 

So S.SC.HCal = (100+165+165)*1.9 = 817

And S.SC.Bane = (100+165)*1.3*1.9 = 654.55

 

817/654.55 = 124.8%; HCal is ~25% more DPS than Bane.

 

thanks for the correction :-)

 

i also made this builds with the paris prime, which has 100 base damage, and got the same results.

HC is still better in pure damage, when they multiply elemental crits, so the other mods don't matter.

[Tarille]

Heavy Caliber will give the higher damage output over Bane

 

But Heavy Caliber can cause DPS loss on certain weapons that rely on getting headshots to stay really effective.

 

Bane should be compared to Elemental mods - Because at a certain point, Bane will outperform an Elemental mod (Even a 90% one)

 

Example:

 

100 damage weapon

 

90% elemental mods will provide 90 damage each.

 

1st mod = 190 damage so Bane provides 57 damage

2nd mod = 280 damage so Bane provides 84 damage

3rd mod = 370 damage so Bane provides 111 damage

4th mod = 460 damage so Bane provides 138 damage

 

So as you can see, a 4th 90% elemental mod is outperformed by Bane, as are subsequent elemental mods (More so when accounting for the fact that at most you'll have 4 90% elemental mods, others being 60%)

 

When it comes to Heavy Caliber:

 

At base: 100

 

Heavy Caliber = 265 (165 damage increase)

Bane = 130 (30 damage increase)

 

Heavy Caliber is far more effective.

 

When accounting for other mods (Generic Serration + 3 Elemental Mods)

 

100 base damage + 165 from Serration + 3x 90% elements (For 238 damage each) = 979 damage.

 

Heavy Caliber will increase the base damage by 165 and all the elements by 148 each for a total of 609 damage increase.

 

Bane will just do a flat 30% increase of the total damage (It adds in last - Essentially a check when hitting the right faction to amplify all damage by 30%) which would be an increase of 293 damage.

 

So yeah... Essentially Bane is just a superior Elemental mod for when you already have 3 90% elemental mods on (For melee, there are only 2 90% mods so it becomes better than a 3rd)

[Darzk]

*snip*

A little overcomplicated. Bane will add 30%; HCal will add 62.3%. K.I.S.S.

 

But Heavy Caliber can cause DPS loss on certain weapons that rely on getting headshots to stay really effective.

 

This is the fact that is most missed, and makes me cringe when I see HCal on a bow, for example.

 

Consider Paris Prime. If you install a Max HCal, you increase damage by a decent chunk, but it's basically impossible for both arrows from SC to get a headshot. If you're lucky, one will headshot and the other will bodyshot, if you're unlucky it'll miss. 

At best, you're doing 162.3% x 4 + 162.3% damage, which is 811.5% damage.

If instead you used Bane, and both arrows headshot, you would deal 2x 130% x 4 = 1040% damage, an increase of 28%!

 

It's a little less of an increase for weapons with less than 100% crit, but it's similar. For example with Soma, with 75% crit, and thus 3.5x average headshot multiplier, if we plug in the same formula;

162.3% x 3.5 + 162.3% = 730%

130% x 3.5 x 2 = 910%, an increase of 24.7% over using HCal.

 

The damage bump for Bane is *much* higher if using HCal causes misses or if you avoid headshots because of installing it.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Darzk

[Kachocalvo]

Not all headshots are double damage. Crewmen, for example.