Let's Talk About Event And Prime Gear.

[Lyutria]

  I don't like prime gear, but why?

Let's say I have a boltor. I like my boltor a lot, so what am I gonna do about it? I'm going to start forma'ing it, obviously! Now I have a 4 forma boltor and all the sudden a new announcement from DE comes out and what is it? It's a boltor prime!... But why should I be excited about this? Why is this good for me? This means I have to go and farm a new weapon (that has an unchangeable gold trim). My effort on making my original boltor has been completely useless--the new one overshadows shadows the original (and nearly every other weapon, if you don't have one of these how are you going to play high level, bub?). And to top it off, I have to buy a new slot and getting this doesn't even introduce me to a new gameplay style. I'm still using it the same as my old boltor, just doing two and a half times more DPS (check dpsframe.com). We also have to consider that newer players might end up completely ignoring the original gear in order to get a prime version instead, because "why should I bother?, this other weapon is just straight up better. Who cares about mastery?"

 

  Then there's event gear.

We all know about this stuff. Everyone always wants this gear to come back. "Why do those guys get more mastery points than me?," they say. Event gear also runs into the same problems that prime gear does, it makes my work useless. And then there's people missed this gear during the few days it was out, who desperately want this stuff to come back again (usually because they want the--frankly useless--mastery points, or just because they don't want older players to have an unfair advantage in that regard). There's also the fact that these weapons are better than the originals, but we can't get them. I like my machete, but it's a piece of trash. The machete wraith makes it somewhat usable, but I can't have that because I wasn't there.

 

  So what do I propose?

I feel that a system like the one I'll talk about here is better for all players, especially in the long run.

What I want to happen is simple: Take all the prime and event gear out of the game as prime and event gear, and instead make them skins for their respective original gear. Make the skins also give stat bonuses equal to what the prime version had in the first place. We already have a skin system, and we already have skins that change stats (E.g. arcane helms, brokk skin for the fragor).

 

  So how would I implement this into the game?

Now, I'm not saying that we should do something stupid and put these in the market. I'm saying we should keep the current method of acquiring these items (be it farming parts or participating in events) but the end result would be an equip-able skin. You can still trade the parts just like we can now, and it shouldn't devalue them by much at all given that they still offer the same stat bonuses.

For players who currently have the prime or event gear, it can be automatically converted to the original gear (keeping your formas intact), and you're awarded with the prime or event skin instead with the original stat bonuses (You lose nothing, essentially).

These skins would--as a virtue of being a skin--no longer award mastery points, but we wouldn't remove the mastery points you've already obtained. I understand that this may place another mastery rank barrier between older and newer players, but if DE was to place a system now is the time to do it, before we're out of beta or flooded with too many prime weapons that it's no longer feasible to do so. It would remove any issues from new prime or event gear in the future.

 

  ADVANTAGES of this system:

* Our work put into the original gear no longer goes to waste.

* We don't have to purchase as many slots.

* Possibly more balanced weapons in the future.

* More usage of the underutilized skin system.

* Newbies can't skip out on the original gear to their own detriment.

* More variety, when you don't have to use the same weapon twice, you have to use more different kinds of weapons with different gameplay styles to get your mastery.

* DE will have to stop taking the original weapons out of the game. It doesn't help when you guys do that, you know. Just more mastery rank barriers.

* Less future mastery rank barriers, as new players don't need to worry about getting mastery from skins (the gap will only get wider as time goes on and DE introduces more event weapons)

 

  DISADVANTAGES of this system:

* Less mastery points total for newer players.

* You can't show off prime gear through the loadout preview, I guess.

* Can't equip immortal skin at the same time as a prime skin.

* No free polarities / potato. (Some people mentioned this below, I had forgotten, sorry.)

 

... Let's talk about some of these disadvantages. About not being able to equip them at the same time... If this presents a large enough issue to the community, there are other ways to implement these things other than skins. Such as the blueprints awarding a "prime upgrade component" that awards the stats (toggle-able?) along with the skin (for looks). Sort of like upgrading a weapon with a catalyst at that point.

And about no free polarities or a potato, I mentioned down below in response that this could be solved by instead possibly offering a auto-equipped potato onto the event weapon's base, or possibly some kind of "forma-prime" for those that doesn't reset the weapon's rank. There's not much I could do about a prime weapon's polarities, though, and it's a valid concern.

 

  But what about DE? Couldn't this be bad for them?

That's true. As a result of no longer needing to buy as many slots, and not needing to forma/potato two times over because of this stuff, DE could potentially have less people buying platinum.

Considering this, there are restrictions we can place on the prime skins. For instance, DE could make it so you can't equip the skin without either polarizing (forma) or installing a reactor/catalyst into the item. Perhaps with some lore involved: "This weapon must be infused with Orokin technology in order for the Prime components to be compatible." This way players will be encouraged to level up their gear or possibly purchase potatoes, moreso than before.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR:

Turn all prime & event weapons into skins for their respective originals that also give the same stat bonuses. (if you want to know about implementation or reasoning... don't read the TL;DR)

 

(This post is in General and not under Weapons as it also considers prime warframes, sentinels, and other future items, please do not move it)

Edited June 18, 2014 by Lautryc

[OniDax]

Nope. Disagree. They should remain as different weapons.

[LoopStricken]

Let's not talk about this.

[Fo0otsteps]

This has been discussed to hell and back. 

Short answer is no

[Phatose]

So....event gear, being nothing more then a skin, will no longer come with it's own slot and catalyst. 

Additionally, because they share the same polarities as the base version due to being the exact same weapon, neither prime nor event gear could include base polarities different then the existing gear.

 

Sounds like a net loss to me.

[Zagrax]

They talked a long time ago about wanting to need a unprimed version of the prime weapon you are using. Would be neat if you could like, say, take a 5 forma'd boltor, use it in the boltor prime recipe and it retains the formas.

[VDeorsum]

No, sorry but no, really

[SolidBeer]

[Senketsu_]

Yeah no.

[APBladeX]

Why can't we just have the Prime/Vandal/Wraith gear be changeable with alternate skins? DE makes money and we're satisfied.

[Quiet_Time1]

I really don't like this idea, I don't see this working...at all....I mean...why work hard and grind for say 2 days straight  forward on a new event. You then receive your new  "weapon" the Marelok wraith, you are so happy only to find out it's a skin that has no effect on game play what so ever..all that time was wasted on some dang skin that's only there to look pretty....

 

In other words..wheres that down-vote button when you need it!

[Seele]

I don't necessarily agree with everything you've stated OP, but you're generally on the right track.

 

Primes are problematic because they, perhaps only in isolated cases, impose a new function on the weapon in question. For example, Akbronco and Akbronco Prime deal the same damage, but Akbronco Prime has a different damage score slant and higher values in other areas while also losing the shotgun damage falloff at range. So while its raw numbers aren't significantly better (certainly not to justify 20 orokin cells, several days of craft time, and 8 prime components to gather [bronco BP x2, Bronco Receiver x2, Bronco Barrel x2, Akbronco BP, Akbronco Link]), it is still better.

 

Primes I will have to abide being independent weapons, but they should follow the model older Primes did. Sicarus Prime is not objectively superior to Sicarus. The latter boasts higher critical damage and while doing 3 less damage per shot, has a larger portion of that damage focused on Impact. Sicarus Prime is generally still considered superior but it isn't a landslide victory.

Braton Prime, for all the effort involved in obtaining it, is ultimately a minor damage boost, 5 extra rounds per magazine, and altered damage slant compared to the Braton.

 

The more indulgent recent Primes are detestable and as you say, absolutely, discourage players from bothering with 'low tier' content. Boltor was once one of the best weapons in the game and now there are zero reasons to use it unless you need mastery XP, and people can get all the 'necessary' mastery XP far too easily for it to even be considered then.

 

With the Vandal and Wraith weapons, however, I am in full concurrence. The standard models should take on the stats of the Vandal and Wraith counterparts and Vandal and Wraith should become skins on the platinum market. Or leave them exclusive, I don't care. Expunge the mastery experience from players who've used them, remove them from their stats, and replace all existing Wraith/Vandal weapons with their normal (but now statistically identical) counterparts. It would not be a trespass on anyone. Vandal/Wraith owners would still have their skin and their weapons would function the same, only the name would change. And now they could opt to not use the skin if they want to change the colors! Win-win.

 

DE has made a lot of mistakes with the weaponry in this game, and as is evidenced by the responses posted before me, most people do not care at all. Hopefully the folks making the decisions make the right ones soon.

[Lyutria]

 

This has been discussed to hell and back. 

Short answer is no

 

I know full well that there has been a lot of discussion surrounded these more exclusive weapons, and why would that be? Obviously there would have to be some sort of issue there, right? Most of the discussion is just about nerfing or buffing prime gear, or wanting the event gear back (I mentioned this in the OP), so what I've typed out isn't exactly retreading the same old ideas (at least, I've never seen anyone mention this idea myself?).

 

So....event gear, being nothing more then a skin, will no longer come with it's own slot and catalyst. 

Additionally, because they share the same polarities as the base version due to being the exact same weapon, neither prime nor event gear could include base polarities different then the existing gear.

 

Sounds like a net loss to me.

 

You're right, I had forgotten about this fact! If this change was made, it's true that we would lose some of a free loot in that regard. I've added it under the disadvantages section. This could, however, be solved in other ways. Perhaps the event skins would come along with auto-equipped potato for the original weapon? Or they introduce an event-exclusive "forma-prime" that didn't reset a weapon to 0? There's a lot you can do here to solve your issue, what do you think?

 

I really don't like this idea, I don't see this working...at all....I mean...why work hard and grind for say 2 days straight  forward on a new event. You then receive your new  "weapon" the Marelok wraith, you are so happy only to find out it's a skin that has no effect on game play what so ever..all that time was wasted on some dang skin that's only there to look pretty....

 

In other words..wheres that down-vote button when you need it!

 

I'm sorry, but what? I've mentioned several times (and even in the TL;DR) that these skins would offer the same stat bonuses that the original gear would, as some skins already can in the game. The Brokk skin for the Fragor weapon offers a 5% higher swing speed at 10% channeling efficiency loss, and looks pretty too!

 

I don't necessarily agree with everything you've stated OP, but you're generally on the right track.

 

** Some more really well thought out stuff clipped here because it would make my post too big **

 

DE has made a lot of mistakes with the weaponry in this game, and as is evidenced by the responses posted before me, most people do not care at all. Hopefully the folks making the decisions make the right ones soon.

 

You've made some good points. It does hurt to see more negativity than I expected, but I suppose that's what happens when you're idea isn't revolutionary or anything.

 

You mention we have primes that aren't objectively better, and that may pose an issue. It's true I forgot to mention, but skins would have no issue modifying a weapon appropriately in this situation. Like I said right above here, the Brokk skin lowers channeling efficiency in return for that swing speed bonus, so a Sicarus Prime skin would be something like below if DE were to continue with the Brokk's percentage style changes:

 

65% More impact damage,

59% Less slash damage,

59% Less puncture damage,

25% Less damage multiplier.

 

Or if they were suited to it, they could use straight-up numbers instead. HOWEVER, I do like your point here, and I'm happy that you agree with me at least in terms of the event (wraith / vandal) gear. To be honest, that's what this topic is more set towards, but prime gear seemed to have around the same properties as the event gear, so I wanted to include them as well. I do like what you said about simply moving the vandal / wraith stats over to the original, and though I would actually love that change, I'm not sure owners of these "exclusives" would be too happy about that (though that's the problem in and of itself, isn't it?). I disagree that they should be placed in the market at that point, however (you don't seem to concerned about that, though), since they would just be an award skin, not unlike the event badges.

 

Weapons really have become a problem in this game. Old weapons being removed are introducing more mastery barriers (like the Boar, and machete / gorgon partially). The current power creep is quite bad as well, along with the fact that sniper rifles are by far the worst category in game, and have their only unique good mod locked behind an exclusivity barrier (primed chamber). This is a problem now more than ever with the news of a PvP focused mode coming out, where everyone will probably be rocking a Penta, Soma, Angstrum, or Boltor Prime. People rage when the idea of nerfing the Boltor Prime comes up, I've seen the argument that "it's necessary to have it this strong so we can do very high level play." Therein lies the problem, because if you couldn't do high-level play if this one weapon was nerfed, it's unjustifiably stronger than the rest.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Lautryc