I Would Very Much Like To See De Move Away From Tacking On New Gear And Move Towards Making The Game Decent

[Innocent_Flower]

Short version: DE makes more and more content that can be sold when in reality less people are going to buy the content because the game needs improvement. 

 

 

So when I started playing warframe i thought "this isn't great, but it's still beta and they can fix things. There's so much content here that it'd be silly of them not to" . However, against reasonable prediction, the game hasn't got better. The one thing that the game has good ,the variety of weapons, frames and art assets, has been expanded on; but nothing else. Each update seems to just add more content; More endgame content. Thing is I already feel like I have passed the endgame. At rank 12 I've got the best weapons, every frame bar loki prime and I don't realy feel like I can go anywhere else. Sure I could fight low level infested for the invasion missions for the mutagen masses for the synapse. Sure I could waste away in the void for the latest prime items. Sure I could build more weapons for mastery; but why? 

 

The biggest thing about warframe is the items you grind for. Getting new items is rewarding. But when you're like me and you've got all the best items; What is there to play for? 

 

This isn't a game that keeps you going just on it's gameplay and I think a lot of people would agree with me on that. Infact; seeing as how the player retention rate is abysmally and embarrassingly low, The numbers don't lie.  Warframes the kind of game that gets a minority of strong followers and then turns away newcomers very quickly. 

 

on the 27/03/2014 warframe looked something like this. 

2426731 warframes crafted

7818888 players 

https://warframe.com/news/warframe-numbers

Now that means that less than half of the players stayed on to make a second warframe. If anything the number is probably a lot more severe than half, seeing as how there are people like me who've built most of the frames. 

 

I'm an unusual chap. I know these guys. Sometimes I describe them as 'friends'.. I introduced them to warframe. Absolutely none of them kept playing the game. And don't just tell me that's because mercury is bad. This one guy, met him on his first day, found him entertaining to talk to, Taught him how mods work and recommended weapons to buy, taxied him to various places like phobos, earth, the void, jupiter... He lasted two days and I've never seen him online again. Just another fact to throw on the pyre: Warframe's metacritic rating is at 66%. Most people Don't want to invest in a 6/10 game. 

 

And what's been done about it?

 

We get new weapons; Doesn't make the game better. 

We get new cosmetics; Doesn't make the game better

We get new frames; Doesn't make the game better. 

We get new tilesets: doesn't make the game better

We get new bosses: Doesn't make the game better

We get inception: doesn't make the game better.

We get rescue 2.0; Nobody plays rescue missions, Doesn't make the game better. 

We get T4: doesn't make the game better. 

 

We get a new melee. Arguable this one. We get more grind with the stance cards. That's a bad thing. We get combos, but they're not fleshed out and interesting. We got channeling and I'm not sure if that's made melee more fun. Melee still slows you down, you can't uppercut/jump mid combo or use your pistol.

You could even argue that melee 2.0 has made melee worse. Before melee was a glorified quick attack that you get different weapons for. Now you can hold a melee weapon like a main weapon and the new system dull/mediocre/good but  nobody would describe it as great. DE have found an okay drawing in the corner of the room and blown it up and put it on a pedastool; making it better and more important but yet showing it's flaws.    

 

 

I want to see DE make warframe good. Animate a new weapon and you've got a new piece of content few will see. a couple of parkour animation and every warframe gets better. Spend a day tweaking numbers so everything's ballanced and drop tables are great and the game gets better. 

 

 

Seriously; The only thing that should be added for the next few months are things that make the game as a whole better.

 

Parkour

Melee mechanics/ improvements

RNG/alternative

Gamemode improvents, Starting with the most commonly played gametypes. Survival, defence. Or don't focus on any particular gamemode and instead make small changes to all the current gamemodes. I'd love MD to have less M. Or for 160 extermination targets to be condensed into a few tiles. personal opinions there; but DE should focus a lot on efficiently making the game better. 

Current enemies getting better. This should come before new enemies are introduced. 

Enemy scaling. 

Mods 

 

Cosmetics? No. Weapons? We've got too many of those. Primes? We've got too many of those and they're just shiny versions of already existing items; adding nothing to gameplay. New warframes? Lots of effort for only a minority of players to experience a new powerset (and we've got a lot of powersets). brand new New Bosses? Absolutely the worst type of enemy to focus on. Lots of effort to make. Bosses are only fought a couple of times and then you leave them alone.  

 

For the greater good

 

Seriously though. I'm being objective here. Objectively the game would get better if DE focused on game mechanics. Furthermore DE would actualy make more money if they made the game better. More weapons: an overly cluttered market and more players loosing faith in DE. Better game mechanics? More players! More players? More people who will buy. It's simple. 

 

Some threads that'd be good. Yes, three are mine and the other two are huge and everyone's seen em. But at least It should get whiners to stop criticizing me for never having any ideas/ only having my own selfish ideas, right? . 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/247847-there-is-no-teamwork-in-warframe-this-should-change/

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/246407-what-if-the-enemy-didnt-have-levels-and-nobody-was-op/

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/244277-de-dont-need-to-make-new-enemies-they-need-to-make-the-current-enemies-better/

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/238581-forget-better-ai-we-need-better-dumb-enemies/page-16#entry2873746

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/119650-parkour-has-been-ignored-for-too-long-its-the-key-element-in-making-warframe-gameplay-unique-and-fresh/page-15?hl=parkour#entry2856901

Edited June 19, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Senketsu_]

didnt you make a thread like this a few months ago, and got mad at people who said they liked the game. I believe you said. "White Knights not welcome." or something along those lines. And everything you have mentioned here are Just your opinion of what you think the game should be/mechanics you dont like. I would go through each of these and give my opinion on why they make the game better for me. But dont go stating all this stuff like your the spokes person of the community. 

Edited June 19, 2014 by Senketsu_

[ValhaHazred]

Different teams do different things. DE is not made of magic programmers who can do it all.

 

Sometimes an artist is just an artist. Their job goes faster and is more visible so it might look like that's all they're doing. It is not.

 

All those things you mention are being worked on by those who can.

[EDeN153]

Any thread that demands that DE focus on mechanics gets an auto plus one.

[BrotherIcarus]

I think this is a good game considering it is unfinished.

[ValhaHazred]

Any thread that demands that DE focus on mechanics gets an auto plus one.

 

DE does work on mechanics. THEY WORK ON BOTH BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE IS A PROGRAMMER.

 

I don't know how this is hard. Think about your job. Is everyone able to do everything? Even if it's a burger joint the answer is no.

[Momoynator]

Any thread that demands that DE focus on mechanics gets an auto plus one.

 

Any threat that demands anything from DE is an auto minus one from me. DE knows what they need to do (for the most part). They just don't have the manpower and time to do it and demanding from them like it is your right does not help.

 

I guess I'm just tired of self-entitled sounding posts (not saying you are, i've just seen so many lately). Yes the game can get better, but it'll take time. If you're tired of it, take a break. 

 

On a side note, you DO know U14 will fix new player experience and other things right? So yes, they are working on stuff... It's just slower than we'd want.

[Rajko]

You have more stamina than I do, I.F. There are a lot of threads layong out what the players would like to see, and at this point as a player who reads most of these threads im past my saturation point.

Whats really needed now is clear, short, simple, concise information that is consistent, for DE to see and act upon.

I hate to be that guy that says tl:dr, because i did read it, but novella posts en masse have not changed the direction, and i think its time to start sticking really brief summarys at the top of all serious commentary.

[Quizel]

I was hooked after 3 seconds of playing the 1st training mission. 

 

Oh, and um, if you've been paying attention de is making more combat situations with depth.

 

Most of your post makes me scratch my head. JS

[Vargras]

Hey look, it's this topic from you.

 

Again.

[Innocent_Flower]

 And everything you have mentioned here are Just your opinion 

Yeah man. Just my opinion. 

on the 27/03/2014 warframe looked something like this. 

2426731 warframes crafted

7818888 players

Edited June 19, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[SpiritofVengeance]

How about instead of bashing DE for this and that you actually give us constructive feedback on what specifically you would like to see changed in places you have problems with. You are going on a rant as if you know the game better than DE themselves and know how to "fix" it. 

 

Game development is not magic and you can't just pull out all new changes and content out of air, so be patient with their development. 

 

Also, I noticed a sudden burst of threads like this bashing DE for every possible sin and for no apparent reason. We are well aware that there are things that can be improved and that is what they are working on but they can't change everything in one patch. I am pretty happy with the fact that they release some form of content on weekly bases.

 

While there are things I don't like all that much, I don't complain because there is no point in it. It's not something that affects my ability to play and have a good time in the game. 

 

If you don't like the direction the game is headed, I can't help you there. It's up to you whether you gonna keep playing or not. But making demands of any kind is foolish, especially in a manner you put it.

[Vargras]

This topic, like every other one made by Innocent_Flower, can be summed up as "Hi I have no idea how game development works but I think I do, here's some super easy changes that really aren't easy at all and would probably make the game tank".

 

Same thing could be said for most of the forums, though.

[Silverton]

I just want content this constant grind would be ok if we just had some damn content. 

[Zachles]

Wow. Just wow.

 

I find it astonishing that people... wow, this community. Are you kidding me?

 

DE does work on mechanics. THEY WORK ON BOTH BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE IS A PROGRAMMER.

 

I don't know how this is hard. Think about your job. Is everyone able to do everything? Even if it's a burger joint the answer is no.

 

This.

 

 

No one can do everyone's job. Asking them to stop releasing content and focus on other things is stupid. They go hand-in-hand.

[Vargras]

I just want content this constant grind would be ok if we just had some damn content. 

Weekly updates say hi.

[Khranitel]

Welcome to our bi-weekly thread from Innocent_Flower.

The OCD is strong with this one.

I agree with some of your points but I think everybody got what you're saying from the very first one you've made.

 

Oh, and about that local "animators do animations and can't code and balance" meme. This argument was valid a year ago, when Warframe just gone wild and DEvs didn't knew yet what to expect. Since then DE had plenty of time to adjust their staff to have enough workforce where it matters most. Judging by current situation, their preference goes the way of churning out new shiny toys instead of fixing the old ones.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Khranitel

[taiiat]

All those things you mention are being worked on by those who can.

absolutely, but still, Digital Extremes doesn't do such a great job of telling the community about that.

 

 

 

Starbound has been getting a lot of sh*t because Chucklefish said that updates would be really slow for a while because of moving to a new studio - and once moved to that studio, they would be able to get updates completed much more quickly.

 

what happened? well, for the past several Months, Starbound has has been almost radio silence. they've said a few times that they're still hard at work - but nobody can SEE that, so it's all just words.

 

 

 

the answer to everything being "we're working on it" is a cliche joke people use about all kinds of big business when they want to ignore something they don't care about.

so... why is that the response to many questions. "Soon™" is a poor answer, and you might as well of not answered the question at all.

the problem, is trying to hide everything. yes, Developers have surprises in mind for the game. that's pretty common. but the entire game can't be planned to be a surprise, you get a lot of unrest then.

 

the only logical way to mend this, is to actually answer those questions people bring up. what's the status of N? well, we don't need a due date, but knowing about how far along something is completed, what parts are completed, and what aren't, is a lot more information than we get now.

or, how does Digital Extremes feel about N? not a big deal, right? if the community wants feedback on our feedback to Digital Extremes, that's pretty justified. instantaneous response, nah, but a timely response that doesn't halt production for a while is good.

what does that mean? that means a bunch of people in the varying teams could be asked for statements about this and that, and they could give opinions, and it could be publically posted. and you know what? people would have some information, and likely then would be pretty content.

 

 

 

so if we ignore the people that get too excited about these things, the core of this, is the community as a whole has questions and wants to know what's going on, and it only hurts a game to not address that.

everything doesn't need to be a bottomless pit of words to explain everything, but a one sentence answer to things that can't be answered with just one sentence is... well honestly, it's insulting.

truthful answers aren't always easy to hear, but those are the answers the community deserves, because they're the truth. 

 

 

and as always, that being said, i'll be patient and wait, but that doesn't mean i'm waiting happily, more of a 'oh, more waiting' type of waiting. i'll do it... but the answer to everything i might think of shouldn't be 'just wait'.

[Bloomers]

tbh this thread doesn't do anything.  You say the obvious things that have been established for a while now, and don't really give a real suggestion or nudge in a good direction.  The statistics from the anniversary mark? Those are frightening on multiple accounts.  Looking at my stats POST-reset, I made up all too large of a portion on some of them.  Mechanically is the game unsound? Slightly, the entire basis of missions and weaponry and (the lack thereof) progression.

I mean just looking at building a new frame.  You start the game, you progress, you find a frame you wanna make, then you probably get trolled on parts or find out you have to wait 12 hours followed by 72 more.  That's immensely brain numbing and practically the only form of progression outside mods at best.  I mean ranking things is a poor idea in the grand scheme of things and doesn't actually count as progression for anything but a few weapons. The starmap is just collections of levels with different maps with no significance other than getting to an alert/invasion, a boss for parts, or a place to farm mats.

 

There's a lot of things wrong and DE knows most of them, a thread that's reiterating a hundred like it won't help, especially without any ideas to add.

[gnat6]

I have to disagree with you on rescue 2.0 it is a massive improvement and all the new and reworked frames that came after the frost rework* have been really good it might have taken DE over a year of trial and error but they are finally doing frame balancing that is making the frames more fun to play instead of just messing with the damage numbers.

Also everything on your list of complaints is either being worked on right now or is on the to do list.

 

*I am satisfied with the final version of snowglobe but all his other skills still need work in my opinion.

[Charismo]

If you don't think the game is even "decent," why are you playing it?

 

I don't mean this in the general "well if you don't like it go away" sense. Feedback shouldn't be dismissed like that.

 

But you don't even think the game is decent. Most people that bother to leave feedback, even feedback critical of the game, like playing the game. They just want it to be better than it already is.

 

But no. You don't think Warframe is decent.

 

You list off things that don't make the game fun for you:

 

• new weapons
• new cosmetics
• new frames
• new tilesets
• new bosses
• inception
• rescue 2.0
• T4

 

This is the game. What you've listed off, is what I play every time I load up Warframe. T4 in particular has been some of the most fun I've had with this game in weeks. You've essentially said that the entire essence of this game does not appeal to you, at all.

 

Yet here you are, week after week. 

Edited June 19, 2014 by Charismo

[Evers]

We get new weapons; Doesn't make the game better.         

[More variety=better]

 

We get new cosmetics; Doesn't make the game better        

[i personally love customiazation so it makes the Game better for me]

 

We get new frames; Doesn't make the game better.             

[Again more variety=better]

 

We get new tilesets: doesn't make the game better              

[Again more variety=better, also if everything would look the same because there are no new tilest=boring]

 

We get new bosses: Doesn't make the game better             

[How can you say that a new boss/overhaul of an old boss doesn't amek the Game better? it sure does]

 

We get inception: doesn't make the game better.                   

[New Gamemode=more variety=better]

 

We get rescue 2.0; Nobody plays rescue missions, Doesn't make the game better.        

[i play rescue mission, i like them and again more variety=Better and also it shows that DE is workign on improving the current systems which you say they dont]

 

We get T4: doesn't make the game better.

[More difficult, new addition, more variety=better]

 

 

Ok then lets see what happend since Warframe started:

-New Missions

-New Mission selection (from Cards to solar map and soon it will change to the Player ship)

-New Enemys

-New Bosses / Overhaul of old Bosses

-New Tilesets

-New Planets

-Void/Darksector

-Addition of Invasions

-Additon of Clans+Clandojo

-Addition of Conclave (PvP)

-Addition of Trading

-Improved movement

-Modding 2.0 (from linear upgrades to a Card Systems) and in combination with that new Modcards

-Dmg 2.0

-Melee 2.0

-Hud 2.0

-New Warframes

-New Weapons

-Addition of Sentinals (and also adding of new ones)

-Grahic improvments

-Performence improvments

-Lots of Bugfixes

-Frame/Weapon/Enemy balancing

-And some more i forgot

 

 

Things we know they are currently working on:

-Focus System

-Proxy Wars

-New Player experience

-More Lore

-Player Ships

-and again some more i just forgot

 

What does DE do to keep the Players informed:

-Regular Devstream

-Active on the Forums

 

And i personally don't know that many Devs who do any of that.

 

 

Of course there are things that need to change/improve. We all know that and DE knows it too. But you also have to acknowledge what they have done so far and don't just put that all to the side because YOU don't like it or it would contradict with what you want to say.

[ValhaHazred]

absolutely, but still, Digital Extremes doesn't do such a great job of telling the community about that.

 

They're still far more open than most companies. Between all the livestreams, workshops and their admittedly spotty presence on the Forums it adds up to quite a bit.

[Hexagoros]

Any thread that demands that DE focus on mechanics gets an auto plus one.

[Innocent_Flower]

didnt you make a thread like this a few months ago, and got mad at people who said they liked the game. I believe you said. "White Knights not welcome." or something along those lines. And everything you have mentioned here are Just your opinion of what you think the game should be/mechanics you dont like. I would go through each of these and give my opinion on why they make the game better for me. But dont go stating all this stuff like your the spokes person of the community. 

Ah, but this one's a better one. Look! shiney! 

 

Different teams do different things. DE is not made of magic programmers who can do it all.

 

Sometimes an artist is just an artist. Their job goes faster and is more visible so it might look like that's all they're doing. It is not.

 

All those things you mention are being worked on by those who can.

You're aware that I'm aware of that, right? I mean i've even pointed out that I know animators are different from coders. But still animators can better the game by making more anmations for movement of both player and the enemy factions. Both'd make the game much better. 

 

DE does work on mechanics. THEY WORK ON BOTH BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE IS A PROGRAMMER.

 

I don't know how this is hard. Think about your job. Is everyone able to do everything? Even if it's a burger joint the answer is no.

as aboove

 

This topic, like every other one made by Innocent_Flower, can be summed up as "Hi I have no idea how game development works but I think I do, here's some super easy changes that really aren't easy at all and would probably make the game tank".

 

1- At no point on this thread did I say this was easy. 

 

2- I've dabbled in development before. I think it's you who has no idea.