Alternate Mod System?

[Psychotoxin]

What about a different type of modding? right now if you mod your frame/weapon, it most likely looks like everyone else's mod loadout.

What i have in mind is a system where you get dedicated slots.

For frames you have 4 slots for skills and then 2 for health/shields/armor (Redirection/Steel fiber/Vitality); 2 for resistances (anti-toxin/insulation etc.); 2 for skill support (Stretch/Intensify etc.) and 2 for utility (Enemy sense/Thief's Wit etc.).

 

I know that this is gonna get me a lot of No's here, but this would make modding a more unique, and player specific.

And for this to work, DE should do something about the resistances. right now there's no big reason to use resistance mods, since right now having a lot of health and high shields beats having a slightly better resistance to spontaneous immolation.

 

For guns it could work similarly:
2 slots for damage (Serration/Piercing hit/Cryo rounds etc); 2 slots for bullet behavior mods (Split chamber/Shred etc.);  2 slots for weapon performance or stats (Speed trigger/Fast hands/Ammo Drum etc.); 2 slots for utility (Eagle eye/Stabilizer) and 2 for Critical/Proc chance and Crit dmg (Point strike/Rifle Aptitude/ Vital shot)

 

As for Melee weapons:
2 slots for damage; 2 for channeling; 2 for stats of the weapon (Fury/Reach); 2 for utility (Berserker/Energy channel); and 2 for crits/procs.

 

Of course this is just a frail skeleton of the idea, and still would need a lot of rework, and ideas to balance it out. And probably a rework of a lot of the mods.

 

Go ahead now and post all your 'How about no's, but spare some thought to this. At least it'd liven things up a bit, when you have to decide what to put where...

[Rekkou]

How is a forced modding allocation make modding more unique?

[GrayFox]

An alternative/addition to the current mod system from what I can think of would be weapon parts customization. While mods already works like that, literal parts that we can buy/craft to put in our weapons that increases base stats and then the module modifier values kick in. 

These parts would be part of the Tenno Lab and won't dilute the drop tables. increase in stats would be increments of 1 (tier 1 = +1, tier 2 = +2 so on and so forth). While increments of 1 may sound little, but especially for those who are into min/max-ing, these values will be appreciated.

Much-akin to how we craft the base weapon, the idea is to have the option to craft our "improved" versions of it, basically allowing Tennos to research about how to improve their weapons and tinker with them as the never-ending conflicts envelops the solar system.

Braton:

Part A/Stock - reduces recoil by 1/2/3/X etc
Part B/Barrel - increases damage by 1/2/3/X etc
Part C/Ejection Port - Increases fire rate by 1/2/3/X etc
Part D/Magazine - Decreases reload time by 1/2/3/X etc
Part E/Bullet/Ammunition - Increases Critical Damage by 1/2/3/X etc

Skana:

Part A/Blade - increases damage by 1/2/3/X etc
Part B/ Handle - increases fire rate by 1/2/3/X etc
Part C/Status Amplifier - increases status chance by 1/2/3/X

*Place holder names but you get the idea. Also values are not % values.

People might say that it would render Prime Versions useless because you can already somehow, reach the stats of the Primes by upgrading parts of the base weapons but it's the same case for Primes, so at the end of the day, Prime Weapons will still have a different stat overall (if not better for some cases) compared to their non-Prime versions. 


For Warframes however, I think the armor sets have the possibility of doing that. From what I can gather from the recent DevStreams, they're still thinking about it. What I would suggest these armor sets to have is not base stat modifiers but decrease in damage taken from specific damage types.

Edo Armor = decrease Slash damage taken
Daedalus Armor = decrease in Impact damage taken
Eos Armor = decrease in Puncture damage taken

Now this makes room for elemental damage/elemental combo damage reduction-themed armor sets for future content.

 

[Sasquatchias]

What about a different type of modding? right now if you mod your frame/weapon, it most likely looks like everyone else's mod loadout.

What i have in mind is a system where you get dedicated slots.

For frames you have 4 slots for skills and then 2 for health/shields/armor (Redirection/Steel fiber/Vitality); 2 for resistances (anti-toxin/insulation etc.); 2 for skill support (Stretch/Intensify etc.) and 2 for utility (Enemy sense/Thief's Wit etc.).

 

I know that this is gonna get me a lot of No's here, but this would make modding a more unique, and player specific.

And for this to work, DE should do something about the resistances. right now there's no big reason to use resistance mods, since right now having a lot of health and high shields beats having a slightly better resistance to spontaneous immolation.

 

For guns it could work similarly:

2 slots for damage (Serration/Piercing hit/Cryo rounds etc); 2 slots for bullet behavior mods (Split chamber/Shred etc.);  2 slots for weapon performance or stats (Speed trigger/Fast hands/Ammo Drum etc.); 2 slots for utility (Eagle eye/Stabilizer) and 2 for Critical/Proc chance and Crit dmg (Point strike/Rifle Aptitude/ Vital shot)

 

As for Melee weapons:

2 slots for damage; 2 for channeling; 2 for stats of the weapon (Fury/Reach); 2 for utility (Berserker/Energy channel); and 2 for crits/procs.

 

Of course this is just a frail skeleton of the idea, and still would need a lot of rework, and ideas to balance it out. And probably a rework of a lot of the mods.

 

Go ahead now and post all your 'How about no's, but spare some thought to this. At least it'd liven things up a bit, when you have to decide what to put where...

 

While its not a bad idea, I feel that guns would need 3 damage slots at most so that they can get the elemental combos without sacrificing the "necessary" mods (Hornet Strike and Serration.) 

 

If this system were to come with a re-balancing of said mods so that they aren't "necessary" or just side-grade then I'd be ok with there being 2 slots only for damage.

[Psychotoxin]

How is a forced modding allocation make modding more unique?

 

You can't just throw every element mod into a gun to gain maximum damage, and mostly unused mods  might have a reason to exist, besides diluting the drop pool with useless crap. Same with the warframe - You'll be forced to think what to use, and how to use your mods to their maximum. Forcing you to sacrifice range for power, or power for duration. While we do have corrupt mods, that do this, you can balance them out to alleviate the negative effects. But what if you were limited into a choice, where you have massive power and/or durration, but almost no range. or the other way around. Or maybe you have a shield that recharges almost instantly and has a huge reserve pool, but your health is so miniscule that a slap from a scorpion downs you. 

I see how this could make you adjust your play-style to more than just run and gun, and then occasionally take cover.

But anyways - as i said, this is a very incomplete skeleton of the idea.

 

An alternative/addition to the current mod system from what I can think of would be weapon parts customization. While mods already works like that, literal parts that we can buy/craft to put in our weapons that increases base stats and then the module modifier values kick in. 

These parts would be part of the Tenno Lab and won't dilute the drop tables. increase in stats would be increments of 1 (tier 1 = +1, tier 2 = +2 so on and so forth). While increments of 1 may sound little, but especially for those who are into min/max-ing, these values will be appreciated.

Much-akin to how we craft the base weapon, the idea is to have the option to craft our "improved" versions of it, basically allowing Tennos to research about how to improve their weapons and tinker with them as the never-ending conflicts envelops the solar system.

Braton:

Part A/Stock - reduces recoil by 1/2/3/X etc

Part B/Barrel - increases damage by 1/2/3/X etc

Part C/Ejection Port - Increases fire rate by 1/2/3/X etc

Part D/Magazine - Decreases reload time by 1/2/3/X etc

Part E/Bullet/Ammunition - Increases Critical Damage by 1/2/3/X etc

Skana:

Part A/Blade - increases damage by 1/2/3/X etc

Part B/ Handle - increases fire rate by 1/2/3/X etc

Part C/Status Amplifier - increases status chance by 1/2/3/X

*Place holder names but you get the idea. Also values are not % values.

People might say that it would render Prime Versions useless because you can already somehow, reach the stats of the Primes by upgrading parts of the base weapons but it's the same case for Primes, so at the end of the day, Prime Weapons will still have a different stat overall (if not better for some cases) compared to their non-Prime versions. 

For Warframes however, I think the armor sets have the possibility of doing that. From what I can gather from the recent DevStreams, they're still thinking about it. What I would suggest these armor sets to have is not base stat modifiers but decrease in damage taken from specific damage types.

Edo Armor = decrease Slash damage taken

Daedalus Armor = decrease in Impact damage taken

Eos Armor = decrease in Puncture damage taken

Now this makes room for elemental damage/elemental combo damage reduction-themed armor sets for future content.

 

 

This is a good idea.

 

While its not a bad idea, I feel that guns would need 3 damage slots at most so that they can get the elemental combos without sacrificing the "necessary" mods (Hornet Strike and Serration.) 

 

If this system were to come with a re-balancing of said mods so that they aren't "necessary" or just side-grade then I'd be ok with there being 2 slots only for damage.

 

well, yeah, without the rebalance this idea is really damaging to the current system. My idea is that the element mods should convert base damage to the element type, not just add more damage to the guns. DE did take a step away from it but it's still "Cram in this to have more numbers pop up. oh yeah, and some of these are better against guy A than against guy B. Also - combos."

 

My idea would be like this: Let's say you put your rank 3 cryo rounds into your tetra. Tetra does 30 dmg (6 imp; 24 pun). Rank 3 gives 60% cold dmg. Now your tetra still does 30 dmg, but it looks like this - 18 cold; 9.6 pun; 2.4 imp.

with this system though you'd still need 3 damage slots, unless you count elemental mods as utility at this point.

 

I know that there have been talks about the elements converting base dmg instead of adding damage, but those were a while ago...

Edited June 19, 2014 by Psychotoxin

[Tsukinoki]

The fact is, even with a system like this 90% of everyones builds will still be *exactly* the same.

Why?
Because even in a system like this there would only be 2 or 3 "best" builds that everyone would build for and there would still be mods that never see the light of day, even if there are only 2 mods for a certain group they wouldn't use them because they would rather save the points.

Such as the "resistance" mods.
Generally, elemental enemies are rare enough that slotting them in is a waste of mod points, so why even bother?  Those two slots would always go empty.  And dont even bring up "Insulation".  It provides freeze damage resistance.  There is ONE enemy in the entire game that uses freeze damage.  And its a boss, Lech Krill.  Other than that 0 enemies use it.  And with toxin damage that's only TWO enemies, toxic ancients and lobber crawlers, and if your hugging them enough to need that mod your doing something wrong.  The lightning resistance mod only helps on Grineer tile-sets with the arc-traps (and even then you can run out of range of them fast enough to avoid most damage).  The fire resistance mod might see some use on higher level grineer planets but thats about it.
Which means that both of those slots will be empty the vast majority of the time so why even have slots dedicated to them?

For the weapon "utility" mods the same argument as above applies.
Who honestly uses eagle-eye or wants to?  Who needs the extra zoom on their weapons when the vast majority of gameplay conflicts easily happen with 50 meters making them all a waste of points to equip?


So in the end this wouldn't solve anything other then to severely limit the players.

If you want to see different load-outs then DE actually needs to make it so that more of the mods are actually worth using.  Mods like Hush and Eagle Eye are completely useless (and on weapons like Bows doubly so because the extra zoom will never be a help there).  So DE should maybe think about either removing them or replacing them with something good.

If you want actual build diveresity, as in a lot of people using a lot of different mods, then DE will need to actually make a lot of different mods actually useful and good.
Even with limited slots people would just slap in the "best" mods 100% of the time.  Meaning that all of their builds would look exactly the same as each other.

So all this idea would do is trade one cookie-cutter layout for another one, and remove most of the customizability of the system.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Tsukinoki