Invisibility Giving Your Melee 100% Status Chance Instead Of A Stealth Mulitplier

[Stefanovich]

I'm going to cut to the chase on this topic.

 

Ash is primarily a damage dealing frame, and Loki is primarily a utility frame.

 

Ash has Smokescreen for in-your-face melee damage, so the stealth multiplier compliments his play style.

 

Loki uses Invisibility for defensive purposes but also wrecks as much face as Ash, but with a longer duration.

 

Now, if Invisibility gave Loki's melee 100% status chance instead of a stealth multiplier, it would do several things:

 

1 - Would diversify the two cloaking skills and give each their own niche in a situation, Smokescreen for damage dealing and Invisibility for causing proc chaos.

 

2 - Would make melee status builds extremely viable when in the hands of a Loki, and would fit into his theme of "Chaos Primed", as 5 Napalms hit with a Radiation proc is chaos to say the least.

 

3 - Would add even more utility to Loki's kit, this one focusing on whacking a crowd with any melee weapon and watching them bleed, freeze, burn, disintegrate, explode, etc.

 

No, I don't want to nerf Loki from his master race thrown, I just want to see varying cloaking skills out there, and I think that 100% proc chance for 12 seconds (unmodded) is extremely helpful on higher level enemies, when stealth multipliers stop being useful.

 

This is just an idea, so it is in no way perfect. Feel free to let me know if this would be over powered, under powered, or just right for Loki.

[Meenmu]

First I'd like to see how they handle status chances >100%. It doesn't normally happen with what we have, but with such a change, it would be a real possibility.

[Vunie]

no thanks i wanna keep my multiplier 

[XenosInfinity]

I think there's a problem in that there are no diminishing returns on statuses. Run around with a high-damage slash weapon like the Dragon or something modded for Radiation or Blast and you're looking at something with a more efficient Chaos than Nyx, ridiculous knockdown control or immense bleed damage.

[RawGritz]

Yea Loki needs that multiplier for the reasons you state... he has few dmg-dealing properties. Keep as is please.

[Towermice]

that makes no sense.

[Stefanovich]

First I'd like to see how they handle status chances >100%. It doesn't normally happen with what we have, but with such a change, it would be a real possibility.

 

Just like Red Crits. If your melee weapon has 15% Status chance, and you use this new Invisibility, you have a 100% chance to do a status proc, and a 15% chance to deal 2 procs with a single hit.

 

FREEZESPLOSION!    TOXIC FIRE!    RADIOACTIVE GAS!    VIRAL ELECTRICITY!

 

Imagine the proc combos you could generate.

 

that makes no sense.

 

Care to elaborate? What makes no sense?

[Towermice]

Care to elaborate? What makes no sense?

how making yourself unseen makes you proc more.

[WARLOCKE]

please leave the word, KIT, in CoD where it belongs.

[RealPandemonium]

how making yourself unseen makes you proc more.

We could say that Loki, now invisible, can line up a "critical hit" of a different nature.  This would definitely be weaker than the current X4 multiplier with most builds but pumping out Slash and Viral, and Fire procs would probably be competitive.  Gas and Electric builds would also be quite fun.  I would say this would be a fine change if it also boosted your critical chance by some amount as well. 

Edited June 20, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[DiddlyMcGee]

the idea seems good but then it practically makes ash practically useless in end game

 

first ash's powers aren't as great as they could be with smoke screen the only real good power,

 

however if it is for example just the damage crit multiplier for ash and loki's being a 100% proc than ash is going to be at the bottom of the barrel in the end, because of the fact that the crit damage will become usless towards higher level gameplay and the 100% proc would be just ridiculously good, thus reducing ash into a failed state and loki as his successor 

Edited June 20, 2014 by DiddlyMcGee

[RealPandemonium]

the idea seems good but then it practically makes ash practically useless in end game

 

first ash's powers aren't as great as they could be with smoke screen the only real good power,

 

however if it is for example just the damage crit multiplier for ash and loki's being a 100% proc than ash is going to be at the bottom of the barrel in the end, because of the fact that the crit damage will become usless towards higher level gameplay and the 100% proc would be just ridiculously good, thus reducing ash into a failed state and loki as his successor 

Not at all.  The current stealth damage multiplier makes the higher-end melee weapons quite competitive, even in later levels.  Additionally, Shuriken and especially Blade Storm are now super-powerful due to recent buffs. 

 

The people who can only view Ash as an alternatve to Loki need to go away now.  It's funny because Excalibur can give his whole team the stealth damage multiplier and make them invisible via Radial Blind but no one ever brings him up in these discussions.  People are stuck in the past and not aware of how the game actually works; they end up giving misleading feedback and promoting incorrect myths as a result. 

Edited June 20, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[sneakatone]

does anyone know if embers accelerant gives stealth bonus like radial blind?

[RealPandemonium]

does anyone know if embers accelerant gives stealth bonus like radial blind?

No, they are separate effects. 

[Stefanovich]

how making yourself unseen makes you proc more.

 

How does Rhino stomping the ground disrupt the flow of time for sentient objects hurled into the air while the area around the sentient objects are unaffected by the time-altering field?

 

How does fire from the Ignis, fire procs and Ember's abilities work in the vacuum of space?

 

How does Mag magnetize bone marrow?

 

Logic and/or physics obviously aren't taken into account for Warframe powers, so Loki' Invisibility causing more procs isn't too far fetched.

[Azawarau]

Darkra prime Toxic and slash damage....

 

Tbh the 4x damage is broken so i guess its a step in the right direction but still seems like it totally invalidates alot of weapons

[DalaiLlama]

Simply because turning invisible apparently isn't stealthy at all.

[EdBazokatone]

The idea is not bad to make Ash and Loki have different stealth mechanics.

 

BUT if you want to make Loki even more specialized on utility and Ash on damage, there's a problem when you throw there some Viral proc status. Automatically will cut enemies health by 50% in one strike, thus dealing more damage than Ash.

[Eyeless]

This is interesting, but honestly I'm rather torn. I like being able to cut swathes of enemies down with Loki's damage multiplier. The longer-invis lets him last longer in the fray to murder things whereas Ash only really needs it to prioritize a small group or drop aggro.

 

If used right their playstyles already keep them worlds apart, this has become all the more evident to me after using both extensively both with Ashes latest buffs and the release of Loki Prime. 

 

Your idea is a good one however as others have mentioned it could upset the games already chaotic 'balance'.

 

Can't deny it'd be damn fun though. 

[BattledOne]

Yea Loki needs that multiplier for the reasons you state... he has few dmg-dealing properties. Keep as is please.

>Implying Loki needs damaging abilities. You also fail too see how much more powerful 100% status chance is compared to a 4x multiplier. A high level heavy gunner doesn't even get tickled by your attacks, multiplier or not. A single corrosive proc will allow you to deal more damage than a 4x multiplier ever will in those long defences/survivals, and they actually can stack and completely nullify armour (imagine going from dealing 5% of your damage to 100%, you still want your 4x huh?).

Edited June 22, 2014 by BattledOne

[Azawarau]

>Implying Loki needs damaging abilities. You also fail too see how much more powerful 100% status chance is compared to a 4x multiplier. A high level heavy gunner doesn't even get tickled by your attacks, multiplier or not. A single corrosive proc will allow you to deal more damage than a 4x multiplier ever will in those long defences/survivals, and they actually can stack and completely nullify armour (imagine going from dealing 5% of your damage to 100%, you still want your 4x huh?).

Though that is true

 

HP scales tremendously as well

 

In the end you wont really get very far with either build against higher tier enemies

[shut]

no thanks i wanna keep my multiplier 

 

Agreed.

 

Making enemies dead in one hit is far more powerful than giving melee swings a 100% proc on every single element that they have active at once. Removing the multiplier and replacing it with anything is a massive nerf to Loki's kit, which is not welcome in my book. The only times where 100% proc would be better is if you're running a Corrosive build and facing heavy Grineer units that are far beyond the devs' intended levels for the game's enemies.

 

The only "nerf" that Invisibility needs is a buff to the AI's reaction to invisible people.

Edited June 22, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Azawarau]

Agreed.

 

Making enemies dead in one hit is far more powerful than giving melee swings a 100% proc on every single element that they have active at once. Removing the multiplier and replacing it with anything is a massive nerf to Loki's kit, which is not welcome in my book. The only times where 100% proc would be better is if you're running a Corrosive build and facing heavy Grineer units that are far beyond the devs' intended levels for the game's enemies.

 

The only "nerf" that Invisibility needs is a buff to the AI's reaction to invisible people.

Considering the posibilities of toxic procs and gas abilities it might be possible to say it gets to be more useful around wave 50/50 min compared to 4x

 

Though id have to play with loki melee to know

[RealPandemonium]

>Implying Loki needs damaging abilities. You also fail too see how much more powerful 100% status chance is compared to a 4x multiplier. A high level heavy gunner doesn't even get tickled by your attacks, multiplier or not. A single corrosive proc will allow you to deal more damage than a 4x multiplier ever will in those long defences/survivals, and they actually can stack and completely nullify armour (imagine going from dealing 5% of your damage to 100%, you still want your 4x huh?).

Viral and corrosive procs don't stack anymore, so they don't provide as much raw damage potential as before.

[__Kanade__]

It wouldn't work at high tiered enemies, heavies in particular have too much armor scaling so the 100% status would barely touch them, the same for just a high multiplier while channeling.

 

The armor scaling with the heavies is still the main issue.

Edited June 23, 2014 by __Kanade__