These New Ospreys Are... Too Strong.

[Othergrunty]

I just had the chance to see them in action in a level 30 mission. It's the original toxic ancients all over again. Only now they fly around in random patterns and have twice the HP of ancients.

[-skimmer-]

Are you seriously complaining about this game being hard? Like, really? This game badly needed some challenge and we got one.

Edited June 20, 2014 by -skimmer-

[Erelas]

They're awesome ! Now I have at least one thing to worry about when I am fighting some punching ball infested plague. It even can take out a Vauban, hey.

Exactly!  The complaining on here is a bit too harsh given the situation, I understand them getting stuck in missions and making mission longer, and I also think they're a problem when their shot zone is so small for scanners and just shooting them down, but the main problem here is really the players not use to something harder, not use to equipping mods for defense or health.  Throwing on Antitoxin as a mod made my Nekros almost unkillable, and I went in with almost no shields and very little health.  

Players just need to think and use what they have around them.

[Tsukinoki]

@Erelas
Without anti-toxin I had just the procs from the cloud kill a max health Ash (1290 health), from a level 25 osprey
SO it was dealing OVER 150 damage per tick.

With anti-toxin maxed it is dealing 82.5 per tick for 9 ticks (or 742.5 damage in total)

A max health build loki has 645 health (vigor + vitality maxed).
SO even with a max anti-toxin he'll still die 100% of the time with absolutely nothing that can be done about it.

Especially since the clouds could be invisible!

That is NOT a challenge.
That is just S#&$ting on the player for playing something other than Rhino.

[Othergrunty]

Are you seriously complaining about this game being hard? Like, really? This game badly needed some challenge and we got one.

 

It's not hard, it's tedious that way.

 

The toxic cloud they produce is barely visible (at least on my graphic settings) their sphere of influence is wider than the visible particles, the effect is unblockable, last for 7 seconds and can rip away a lot of your limited HPs.

 

The ospreys themself fly around in unpredictable pattern and can sometimes charge through the air like Oxium Ospreys while they spray around their cloud. All that and they take a lot of damage to drop. More so than the regular enemies around them.

To make matters worse they belong to a faction which is focused on melee and masses. So you will regulary encounter them while dealing with a larger group of enemies who engange you in melee. So you either try to cut them down, shoot them or run away from them shooting, when suddently this stupid Ospreys flies over your head and sprays an unavoidable barely visible toxic cloud over you.

 

So your options are to pick Rhino and pray Iron Skin holds long enough, or move slowly and check every corner above you that there isn't some Infested Osprey hanging there and charging ahead above you to rain his toxic cloud on you.

 

Your warframe is dead and your team mate who tries to revive you either has to walk into the same cloud or wait for it to die down, all while more masses of melee enemies are running around. They are the same as the toxic ancients were 1 year ago. But at least they were big and you could see them easily among the enemies. DE aknowledged eventualy that they were too powerfull and nerfed their toxic cloud.

 

They need less HP, a weaker damage for their procs and a more visible cloud.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Othergrunty

[Mirriky]

Take away their blasted duration mods DE!

Thats the only issue, once you are out of the cloud you still have 8 seconds of pure death drooling on you

[Quiet_Time1]

 

But if I had anything to add DE should make them a bit bigger, slower, and make their dive a cool down thing like the heavy's ground slam.

 

But still, keep on crying that you cant press 4 with a Rhino and kill all the infested in one hit now.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Amethyst.zero

[VilleMigel]

People are always crying for more difficulty and when it happens, they want it off. Some of you are acting like a spoiled kid... 

[fatpig84]

If you are now trying to melee infested you are doing it reaaally wrong.

[Davoodoo]

Well its yet another example of lazy design using broken mechanics.

 

Yet again our only defense against enemy is to kill them before they can kill you.

Yet again only dangerous enemy is that which can ignore our defenses.

 

That is no challenge, that is difficulty for the sake of difficulty without any thought given on how it will affect players.

 

Same goes for breeding grounds.

Only piece of difficulty you can find there is finding tumors while running from infested blob while avoiding osprey clouds, viral clouds and magnetic fields.

If you however get caught by any ancient you are being knocked down and trampled by the rest of blob. 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Icehowl

remember that guy?? now imagine theres 40 of these each follows you while charging and there are adds which slow you down.

Sounds fun right??

Edited June 20, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Erelas]

@Erelas

Without anti-toxin I had just the procs from the cloud kill a max health Ash (1290 health), from a level 25 osprey

SO it was dealing OVER 150 damage per tick.

With anti-toxin maxed it is dealing 82.5 per tick for 9 ticks (or 742.5 damage in total)

A max health build loki has 645 health (vigor + vitality maxed).

SO even with a max anti-toxin he'll still die 100% of the time with absolutely nothing that can be done about it.

Especially since the clouds could be invisible!

 

Post a fraps or vid of you standing in the cloud, b/c clearly that's what you were doing to let the ticks go off on you like that.  That, or you mistook an infested poison cloud bubble for the osprey.  They do not tick that hard when you run through them, in fact, if you run fast enough or use melee through them on a jump you won't even get the effect.  In fact, I've noticed a lot of people mistaking the ship defense clouds for the osprey gas.    

As I understand it, you were just standing in a cloud, however, so please show me otherwise via video, that would be much appreciated.  Not sure where you're getting your numbers, they don't add up.  When I can stand in a cloud--stand mind you--with a Nekros (which everyone knows is squishy), maxed Antitoxin, a Rage and a Health mod thrown on and not even at maxed rank but level 20, then you know it's not that bad.  

If however I was in one of the ship toxin clouds that would be another story...those are deadly.  This is something players can readily inhibit--not at low ranks mind you--but with a mod or two even on squishy frames you're hardly taking dmg against level 20 something ospreys.  This is what we call actual gameplay, when you have to change or deviate from the normal build to satisfy the requirements of the challenge or target at hand.  It's not a problem of the mob, it's a problem the player faces in terms of modding.

[Davoodoo]

Post a fraps or vid of you standing in the cloud, b/c clearly that's what you were doing to let the ticks go off on you like that.  That, or you mistook an infested poison cloud bubble for the osprey.  They do not tick that hard when you run through them, in fact, if you run fast enough or use melee through them on a jump you won't even get the effect.  In fact, I've noticed a lot of people mistaking the ship defense clouds for the osprey gas.    

As I understand it, you were just standing in a cloud, however, so please show me otherwise via video, that would be much appreciated.  Not sure where you're getting your numbers, they don't add up.  When I can stand in a cloud--stand mind you--with a Nekros (which everyone knows is squishy), maxed Antitoxin, a Rage and a Health mod thrown on and not even at maxed rank but level 20, then you know it's not that bad.  

If however I was in one of the ship toxin clouds that would be another story...those are deadly.  This is something players can readily inhibit--not at low ranks mind you--but with a mod or two even on squishy frames you're hardly taking dmg against level 20 something ospreys.  This is what we call actual gameplay, when you have to change or deviate from the normal build to satisfy the requirements of the challenge or target at hand.  It's not a problem of the mob, it's a problem the player faces in terms of modding.

Ship clouds inflict viral not toxin and they dont hit that hard either, on my last run (509 total) they have been hitting for around 150 per second and didnt bypass shields.

 

However mutalist osprey cloud inflicts about 100 per tick itself then theres dot which took my 925hp oberon with 2-3 ticks despite having lots of hp orbs nearby, alive carrier and popping heal as soon as i noticed it(-30% duration +30% strength)

Edited June 20, 2014 by Davoodoo

[RancidTurnip1603]

Well its yet another example of lazy design using broken mechanics.

 

Yet again our only defense against enemy is to kill them before they can kill you.

Yet again only dangerous enemy is that which can ignore our defenses.

 

That is no challenge, that is difficulty for the sake of difficulty without any thought given on how it will affect players.

 

Same goes for breeding grounds.

Only piece of difficulty you can find there is finding tumors while running from infested blob while avoiding osprey clouds, viral clouds and magnetic fields.

If you however get caught by any ancient you are being knocked down and trampled by the rest of blob. 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Icehowl

remember that guy?? now imagine theres 40 of these each follows you while charging and there are adds which slow you down.

Sounds fun right??

Except that it's not.

 

The damage is avoidable 95% of the time, and even when it's not, there are mods out there that reduce the amount of damage you take significantly (which is more than can be said of bleed procs), and even more mods, abilities, and items that can restore lost health.

 

Just because you are overly dependent on your shield to tank 99% of the damage sources in the game doesn't mean DE doesn't know what they're doing. Likewise, If people don't want to use mods for the situations it's intended for, that's on them.

[Davoodoo]

Except that it's not.

 

The damage is avoidable 95% of the time, and even when it's not, there are mods out there that reduce the amount of damage you take significantly (which is more than can be said of bleed procs), and even more mods, abilities, and items that can restore lost health.

 

Just because you are overly dependent on your shield to tank 99% of the damage sources in the game doesn't mean DE doesn't know what they're doing. Likewise, If people don't want to use mods for the situations it's intended for, that's on them.

I mainly use shield mods cause i have no way to regen my hp except of using frame with hp regen. 

I only use vitality over redirection on oberon and trinity.

Yes there is hp regen aura but that would take energy siphon away and its not really a fair trade most of the time.

 

I still blame de for making mechanics that promote shield tanking and removing hp orbs from enemy drops(yes enemies dropped hp orbs few updates ago)

But for the sake of the event i was running 925 hp oberon which popped tons of hp orbs from enemies and had emergency heal.

 

Then for fairness, yes if you spot that drone in time you can avoid it.

Remember though that theres a bunch of infested you need to run from before they trample you and every ancient will knock you down just by touching you.

Then there is also juggernaut to be added to infested which might be a problem.

Ofc 1 tick from cloud can proc toxin which will kill you unless you had blessing or iron skin.

 

Only reason you havent died so much doing this event from them is that you ignored these ospreys, they dont have hitscan weapons so they cant keep up with coptering frame. Ppl on defense dont rush through lvl so they are hit more frequently.

 

Also while i havent personally tested it ppl claim that even with antitoxin mod these drones kill them if they proc.

Their dmg output is higher than current ancients, but they also leave lingering cloud which can proc deadly dot and works as area denial.

 

And im 100% sure that de is clueless when they first remove toxic clouds from ancients despite being presented with other solutions and then add them again to new enemies with higher dmg and without fixing core problems which are lack of telegraph and insta death.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Davoodoo

[RancidTurnip1603]

Honestly, shield tanking infested is pointless. If you're playing the game right they will never even hit you, or if they do they'll rarely break 300 damage.

 

As for healing you've forgotten about equilibrium and Life strike, a very under-rated mod and a very popular mod for Melees respectively; Two extremely viable ways to restore health at the cost of only one mod slot, you even have the choice of whether you want one on your melee that most people hardly use anyway, or on your warframe.

 

Also believe it or not you have a choice between rejuvenation and energy siphon, a very real choice. You have no idea how many times I get thanked just for simply using that one aura, the whole idea of mods is being able to choose what would be the most helpful for the build you are running. Energy siphon isn't necessary, it's a crutch, it completely removes any requirement of energy management on the players part and pigeon holes you into certain builds and playstyles. Another completely viable alternative to Energy Siphon is Infested impedance, the melee infested will never hit you, and the ospreys become much easier to hit.

 

Because YOU choose to limit your playstyle to very specific builds, doesn't mean the game I like should be gimped into monotonous boredom.

 

Also, I didn't ignore the ospreys, I tried to scan every single one I found, usually my friend or sentinel killed it first though.

Edited June 20, 2014 by RancidTurnip1603

[Davoodoo]

Honestly, shield tanking infested is pointless. If you're playing the game right they will never even hit you, or if they do they'll rarely break 300 damage.

 

As for healing you've forgotten about equilibrium and Life strike, a very under-rated mod and a very popular mod for Melees respectively; Two extremely viable ways to restore health at the cost of only one mod slot, you even have the choice of whether you want it on your melee that most people hardly use anyway, or on your warframe.

 

Also believe it or not you have a choice between rejuvenation and energy siphon, a very real choice. You have no idea how many times I get thanked just for simply using that one aura, the whole idea of mods is being able to choose what would be the most helpful for the build you are running. Energy siphon isn't necessary, it's a crutch, it completely removes any requirement of energy management on the players part and pigeon holes you into certain builds and playstyles. Another completely viable alternative to Energy Siphon is Infested impedance, the melee infested will never hit you, and the ospreys become much easier to hit.

 

Because YOU choose to limit your playstyle to very specific builds, doesn't mean the game I like should be gimped into monotonous boredom.

 

Also, I didn't ignore the ospreys, I tried to scan every single one I found, usually my sentinal killed it first though.

I havent forgotten about equilibrium and life strike, i just dont find them reliable enough. I also skipped nekros for that reason. Though i forgot valkyr which got reliable way to regain health.

 

No, siphon energy is not mandatory, but also it doesnt completely remove need for energy management. Its only reliable way, except for energy restore to get back energy. 

Rejuvenation aura is nice and everything but compared to energy siphon and shield tanking is weaker choice.

When hp tanking its mandatory, however greatly limits power usage when soloing compared to using energy siphon.

 

Infested impendance aura, it was recently nerfed but even before nerf 1 in group didnt make much difference, only when stacked they had a point, but even without them you can outrun infested and they wont help much against "around the corner *@##$slap" from ancient and will make infested swarm more blocking entrances which is bad idea on new tileset. Usually i find enemy radar more useful against infested than infested impendance.

 

It wasnt my choice to use them, i usually switch shields for hp when soloing against infested but thats it. In group i dont die often enough to bother with switching mods and even if i do squad wont fail because of this.

I can however specialise for infested, swap aura add equilibrium for healing and vitality for hp but that forces me to switch 3 mods, barely increases my survival rate and limits my power use greatly. Its not efficient.

 

If de makes situational mods truly worth it i will use them, till then they dont provide enough benefits. 

If antitoxin granted immunity against toxin why not, it would be nice tactical choice, if it doesnt then it grants me near 0 chance to survive toxin proc which is worthless compared to extra 30% duration/power or 45% range increase or even 30% sprint speed increase.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Erelas]

Ok, just got done testing this.

The Ospreys aren't giving a DoT, if you happen to be running around in the cloud it continues its tick but once you're out it stops.

The Viral clouds made by the ships ARE however DoT.  I still think you're confusing them.

 

On average the tick of dmg done to a Nekros with 690 hp a Rage and max Antitoxin equipped against level 20 Ospreys is 12 hp per second while running in the cloud.

The Viral on the other hand is 100 hp per second while standing in the cloud.

I'm not seeing a problem, carry on.

[Seele]

Ok, just got done testing this.

The Ospreys aren't giving a DoT, if you happen to be running around in the cloud it continues its tick but once you're out it stops.

The Viral clouds made by the ships ARE however DoT.  I still think you're confusing them.

 

On average the tick of dmg done to a Nekros with 690 hp a Rage and max Antitoxin equipped against level 20 Ospreys is 12 hp per second while running in the cloud.

The Viral on the other hand is 100 hp per second while standing in the cloud.

I'm not seeing a problem, carry on.

Being 'tagged' by the Osprey's cloud applies a number of stacks of toxic damage, I usually see 7 of them. This is DoT.

Without Antitoxin and in higher level content (that is outside of the event, they're in all infested maps now), one of those seven ticks will slay a 100 HP/65 armor warframe. Anything Excalibur or squishier is dead unless they specifically alter their mods to accommodate a single enemy within a single faction, in a way no other enemy in the game demands.

Nobody feels required to stack defensive mods to survive 60 minutes of Tower 4 survival. Nobody puts Redirection, Vitality, Steel Fiber, and Flame Repellant on Volt even if they know they'll be fighting Napalms, and they're probably the closest thing to the offensive prowess of the mutalist osprey.

[RancidTurnip1603]

Ok, just got done testing this.

The Ospreys aren't giving a DoT, if you happen to be running around in the cloud it continues its tick but once you're out it stops.

The Viral clouds made by the ships ARE however DoT.  I still think you're confusing them.

 

On average the tick of dmg done to a Nekros with 690 hp a Rage and max Antitoxin equipped against level 20 Ospreys is 12 hp per second while running in the cloud.

The Viral on the other hand is 100 hp per second while standing in the cloud.

I'm not seeing a problem, carry on.

They do have a decent chance to toxin proc you but only if you stand in the toxin cloud for it's entire duration like a noob, it's just not nearly as common as people like to say.

[Erelas]

Being 'tagged' by the Osprey's cloud applies a number of stacks of toxic damage, I usually see 7 of them. This is DoT.

Without Antitoxin and in higher level content (that is outside of the event, they're in all infested maps now), one of those seven ticks will slay a 100 HP/65 armor warframe. Anything Excalibur or squishier is dead unless they specifically alter their mods to accommodate a single enemy within a single faction, in a way no other enemy in the game demands.

Nobody feels required to stack defensive mods to survive 60 minutes of Tower 4 survival. Nobody puts Redirection, Vitality, Steel Fiber, and Flame Repellant on Volt even if they know they'll be fighting Napalms, and they're probably the closest thing to the offensive prowess of the mutalist osprey.

Yep, 7 stacks of toxin while running around in the cloud, once out it was gone in the 2 missions I played.  The DoT did the dmg aforesaid over its duration while walking around in the cloud.  I'm doing this in the Event to be clear.

No one IS required, this is a choice of the players, if you want to survive in high levels against these ospreys that's your choice to slot the mods that will help keep you up.  No reason to blame a problem players are having against a given mob when they can't mitigate the problem with the tools we have been given in the game.

Additionally, all you have to do is walk around them, quite easy to dodge these clouds unless you run in to try and melee something flying around...and that's a whole other kind of silly.

[Davoodoo]

Yep, 7 stacks of toxin while running around in the cloud, once out it was gone in the 2 missions I played.  The DoT did the dmg aforesaid over its duration while walking around in the cloud.  I'm doing this in the Event to be clear.

You dont lose toxin status if you move out of cloud and it never worked like that. 

Cloud does its own dmg and also applies toxin dot which deals major part of dmg.

 

You have 0 knowledge about game mechanics.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

The damage is avoidable 95% of the time

 

Man, sure must be nice to be encountering these things in a wide open space instead of cramped ship corridors. You know, what the whole event is about.

 

 

 

No one IS required, this is a choice of the players, if you want to survive in high levels against these ospreys that's your choice to slot the mods that will help keep you up.

 

Forcing players into one build to rule them all is very poor game design.

 

Yep, 7 stacks of toxin while running around in the cloud, once out it was gone in the 2 missions I played.  The DoT did the dmg aforesaid over its duration while walking around in the cloud.  I'm doing this in the Event to be clear.

 

Toxin procs don't work like that. You're probably referring to the viral damage (not the procs) from gas clouds from killing a gas hive. But those are not actually too terrible since while they do heavy damage, you can avoid them. Not so with the toxin procs from these ospreys.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Erelas]

You dont lose toxin status if you move out of cloud and it never worked like that. 

Cloud does its own dmg and also applies toxin dot which deals major part of dmg.

 

You have 0 knowledge about game mechanics.

Attacking the poster isn't helping your argument...or lack thereof.

Like I stated, when walking out of the cloud I no longer had the Toxin status debuff.  I'm relating my direct testing experience, not how toxin may have worked previous to this.

These points aside, the point is Ospreys are not a problem, players can avoid and work to mitigate dmg they do encounter.  Enough said.

[RancidTurnip1603]

Man, sure must be nice to be encountering these things in a wide open space instead of cramped ship corridors. You know, what the whole event is about.

 You're running a dark sector conflict, by mighty stroke of RNGesus, you turn a corner and see a Trinity specter. Do you shoot her immediately, or retreat out of link range before firing? Sure, stuff happens, but 95% of the time you can get away and give the osprey some space before it starts releasing clouds, react properly and quickly and you'll take almost no damage from them.

 

 

Forcing players into one build to rule them all is very poor game design.

Continuing to build the entire game around one particular broken playstyle is worse, especially when everyone is constantly complaining about how bland, easy, and repetitive the game already is.

 

Nobody is forced into anything, you can run multiple frames with ways to prevent the damage,you have multiple mods to mitigate damage, and even more mods for  restoring health.

Edited June 20, 2014 by RancidTurnip1603

[Cpl_Facehugger]

 You're running a dark sector conflict, by mighty stroke of RNGesus, you turn a corner and see a Trinity specter. Do you shoot her immediately, or retreat out of link range before firing? Sure, stuff happens, but 95% of the time you can get away and give the osprey some space before it starts releasing clouds, react properly and quickly and you'll take almost no damage from them.

 

Actually, I do shoot her immediately because she can't cast link while staggered. If she gets a link off I stop firing and pull back. Which isn't exactly an option with mutalist ospreys because they zip around like oxium ospreys and they bring the poison to you.

Now, as for your claim: It's nonsense. The gas clouds are so huge that in certain tiles (ie most of the tiles in the event and a lot of grineer/corpus ship tiles), it's literally impossible to dodge. Get caught in a hallway by a mutalist osprey or several (as has happened to me several times during the event)? Enjoy being downed.

Well, unless you main Rhino like I do. But it's a bad thing when only the frame who can outright ignore unfun nonsense like that is viable.

 

 

 

Continuing to build the entire game around one particular broken playstyle is worse, especially when everyone is constantly complaining about how bland, easy, and repetitive the game already is.

 

I don't particularly see how the current playstyle re shields and health is broken. The issue with vitality not being as appealing as redirection is a matter of there not being enough convenient ways to heal. To fix that you should give players options, not take options away by forcing them into certain cookie cutter builds.

 

Nobody is forced into anything, you can run multiple frames with ways to prevent the damage,you have multiple mods to mitigate damage, and even more mods for  restoring health.

 

You do realize that some people might not have multiple frames, right? With the damage mitigation mods being both insufficient (a max health loki with antitoxin still isn't walking away from a mutalist osprey fart party) and available solely at RNG's whim? With the restoring health mods also being RNG dependent and often rare mods to boot?

Try to think about it from the perspective of someone other than a vet with craploads of mods and resources.