These New Ospreys Are... Too Strong.

[Methanoid]

And wonder why a hit-scan bullet managed to pass through its 'eyes' without it taking damage, nor showing a damage number. 

 

keep shooting and/or vary where you are shooting?

[Renegade343]

keep shooting and/or vary where you are shooting?

That is quite obvious, no?

 

Then again, people are very soon going to stop and wonder why the hell a shotgun blast/torrent of rifle bullets managed to miss the osprey even though the bullets are on target. 

[iRMarques]

worst thing warframe created in this game. 

in one "fart" they can instant kill us... -.-

[Adidasprime]

Setting aside the poison aspect for the moment, right now my main complaint is trying to hit these things with melee. Feels like 1 part timing, 3 parts luck at best.

Used to enjoy going full melee mode against infested - now I'd rather just press 4 to kill three of them then flail away trying to hit their ridiculous hitbox. And not talking something like using Furax here, things like Orthos Prime with a max reach mod.

 

Guess this is more of a complaint of hitting any flying enemies in general with melee than this specific enemy. But it's frustrating because I didn't have to deal with that bs fighting infested before now.

[Zaresin]

Setting aside the poison aspect for the moment, right now my main complaint is trying to hit these things with melee. Feels like 1 part timing, 3 parts luck at best.

Used to enjoy going full melee mode against infested - now I'd rather just press 4 to kill three of them then flail away trying to hit their ridiculous hitbox. And not talking something like using Furax here, things like Orthos Prime with a max reach mod.

 

Guess this is more of a complaint of hitting any flying enemies in general with melee than this specific enemy. But it's frustrating because I didn't have to deal with that bs fighting infested before now.

 

Just use your gun till they fix the ability to hit airborne enemies..this is not only a toxic osprey problem, this is anything airborne problem.  

[Tsukinoki]

One change I would like to see with these osprey is how they react, or rather dont, to Radial Disarm.

For any other osprey in the game RD will ground them.  They can still move along the floor and go after you, but they cant leave contact with the ground.  Further it disables most of their abilities, the only exception being shield osprey/orokin gaurdian drones, so that Mine Osprey cant drop mines, and leech osprey cant shoot leeches.

When it comes to any other warframe, they all have one or more abilities that can easily deal with fliers in various ways, so even if other frames go pure melee they can still kill flying units.
For Loki his *only* recourse with flying units is to RD them so that they land on the ground and he can hit them.

So I think that for consistencies sake (as well as to finally provide a use for RD against infested enemies) that RD should ground the osprey and prevent them from doing their toxic farts.

[Genoscythe]

The overall problem is the damage scaling of poison damage on ancients and any other enemies, I think it should cap at some point (30 health hdamage per second is a lot and can take down most frames already), and there should be more health orbs dropping from enemies (1 orb every 20-40 enemies would make a great difference).

 

Slash should cap at 30 damage per second too, because its ridiculous that enemies scale infinitely while we cant.

[Zuijin]

Imo there are 2 problems atm with infested Ospray and they are dire enough I think a tweak to them should be mandatory:

 

 1) General bugs

a-Their hit boxes are bugged/too small. A perfect hit is more often than not a complete no sell (tested while hosting too): they seem to be somehow immune to damage done to their metallic parts. You deal damage only hitting the fleshy bits: considering how small and agile they already are (and how much damage they deal with their poison clouds) I think something has to give. Lesser damage, or bigger hitboxes and/or slower movements.

b- They can't be killed together with their crawlers in a single shot (again, tested even while hosting): a full modded penta blast kill the crawler first, but the Ospray is unharmed (and this even when the blast's centre is above the ospray, so it has nothing to do with their position). A second blast is needed to kill them, and this I believe is a bug.

 

 

2) Inconsistencies (personal opinions):

While I embrace fully the new Infested, I think the ospray are not the answer to make the faction more challenging: or at least, they are not enough.

Since... ever I think, the infested are a faction focused on melee and "zerg rush" assault. In this regard, the ospray is an oddball: while I respect and congratulate to DE for the event organized to justify the lore of the ospray's birth, I think it's a little too much of a stretch. Places like ODD haven't changed much with the inclusion of the ospray, because until you can camp far from fangs, claws and toxins, armed with a massive cc reserve ready to be deployed, infested will not be on the same level of danger with the other factions.

Instead of a farting hybrid infested-corpus mob on speed, wouldn't be better something like an "Ancient Grabber" who force the Tenno in melee range and buff the chargers?

Picture a toxic ancient, swap to a bright orange palette, give him perma viral cloud with 100% proc in a 3 meters area, and add tentacles with stupid reach to grab campers and throw them in the fray, willingly or not (something like the grineer's commanders). Wouldn't be more challenging and fair as infested goes?

 

Also, it's just me or Alad V is becoming THE cliché villain, over competent, always there when nasty things happen? Maybe the next event will kill him off for real (or so I hope), but isn't he... hated too much already? And thanks to plot armor, always immune to consequences?

The Grineer Empire (or at least Sargas Ruk) wants him dead, the Corpus board wants him dead (Alad V bankrupts some branches with his projects, and even after completing them, they didn't deliver the edges he promised), the Tennos want him dead, because strangely enough his pet projects of chopping warframes and sew them together to create robo- dogs &!$$ed us off... who could have known it? And at least every Valkyr frame out here want to eat his eyes raw to make him see their rage...

After this last event, where Alad V played with Infested flesh, I would not be surprised if even Lephantis would like to see Alad V dead...

The man sure knows how to be hated with his pettiness and greed.... DE could we kill him off for real, pls?

Edited June 23, 2014 by Zuijin

[BigPurpleHarness]

And wonder why a hit-scan bullet managed to pass through its 'eyes' without it taking damage, nor showing a damage number. 

 

They do have buggy hit boxes, but that is obviously going to be fixed. WireShark and tracert both confirm it isn't lag though, so ignore the inevitable "git a bettur connexion bro" comments you're going to get. 

[Renegade343]

They do have buggy hit boxes, but that is obviously going to be fixed. WireShark and tracert both confirm it isn't lag though, so ignore the inevitable "git a bettur connexion bro" comments you're going to get. 

I already confirmed it myself earlier on via using the codex (the codex icon does not turn red when I aim at the wings and the upper portion of the osprey). 

[S7ORM]

-Reduce spawn rate
-Increase width of body to register hits.

Fixed. While keeping the damage challenge they pose.

[Seele]

-Reduce spawn rate

-Increase width of body to register hits.

Fixed. While keeping the damage challenge they pose.

I concur with this.

 

As I've continued playing and adapted my playstyle I've become a little more receptive to the mutalist osprey. A little. I guess the shock value is what's at play here, nobody was expecting a new strongest enemy for the faction.

 

However, they have exceedingly frustrating hitboxes. Clear and obvious hits often fail to register on them. Many powers, like Vauban's Bastille and Vortex, and Hydroid's Tentacle Swarm do not affect them at all. And while the one gas cloud is easy enough to avoid (though they're still rather large), with the swarms that spawn, the whole map quickly becomes clouded. The spawn rate could stand to be cut down, because combined with their finicky hitboxes, they often outlive their infested brethren and hence have plenty more time to do lasting health damage to you. Even a little is hard to recuperate, which leads me to my next point.

 

What made me warm to them, I suppose you could say, was the fact that I started seeing more Oberon and Nekros against the Infested. People were adapting to the new threat with health-restore frames, and they did a good job of keeping everyone patched up. This is good and bad.

The good part is, Nekros and Oberon were not the most popular of frames before, and this has given them more purpose.

The bad part is, what's the point of replacing one 'necessary' frame with another? Nova and Rhino, Nekros and Oberon. We should always have viable choice.

 

At any rate, if they are to stay as they are, I hope this is the beginning of a global difficulty ramp-up. I don't want each faction to be determined by their strongest single enemy, nor do I want any one faction to be blatantly stronger than the others, save perhaps the Corrupted.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Seele

[S7ORM]

 

Many times, the above comment.

[DSpite]

I made a few comments that I don't like the new infested flying bastards, but I'd like to make a few things clear:

 

Me and mates are sitting up on high ledges sending Penta round after Penta round into the Crypod slaughtering infested by the hundreds. Only when an infested flying osprey comes into view we go into "combat mode" and prioritize their destruction over ANYTHING else there might be. we carry anti-infested, modded, hitscan secondaries just for that.

 

This is wrong on so many levels. First off, there should never be any place on a map we are "safe". Secondly, the Ancients should be the biggest threat, and the flying or crawling or running everything else should be the icing on the cake that adds a secondary layer to the Ancients threat level, basically what is referred to as a force multiplier:

 

"Force multiplication, in military usage, refers to an attribute or a combination of attributes which make a given force more effective than that same force would be without it ... for example, if a certain technology like GPS enables a force to accomplish the same results of a force five times as large but without GPS, then the multiplier is five."

 

It is not working that way, and until your average Defence mission against the infected starts to feel more like a fight for your life then an Affinity farming camp, the infested ospreys will feel "out of place".

 

I don't mind hard fights, heck, I'd like my team to be slaughtered more often, as long as it was because we made tactical mistakes, not because we open a door and we get poison pooped on instantly by 5 flying clouds of poison. If you think such a thing is totally fair, then surely the infested should just breed flying ospreys to deal with the Tenno, no? How many times have you heard "they are hard to see", well they are. I'm also telling you that, and if you're going that route, just make them invisible, to me it will barely make a difference, I'll just Rhino stomp the instant I see a green cloud in the vicinity, and Penta the general area.

 

The game should constantly throw Rock, Paper and Scissors at us forcing is to reply with a counter, and punish us for mistakes. It does not currently feel like that, and I have yet to see any comments that address that, other then "learn 2 play better", because if the game were to continue to introduce units that simply force players to use a single tactic, then all Teams that run Defence MIssions will end up containing 4 Infested Impedence Aura's, backed up by 4 Penta rifles, AKBoltos and maybe Glaives, so no one has to move from a super high spot on a map other then jump down (or Dimension Door, or Grapple hook or Switch Teleport ... you get the idea) to go pick up drops.

 

Me and a mate that used to play Total Annihilation A LOT once tried a custom unit set (space map and spaceships) on a hard AI. After a number of hours, we only won by a term I call "turret creep", meaning we kept building massive clusters of stationary guns in order to replace losses, and stop units sneaking by, because the AI was FAR too efficient then us at micromanaging factories. Basically we "brute forced it". It was not fun, and we never did that again. Note I did not say "hard", I said "not fun". The poison ospreys are not "hard" they are simply "not fun" at the moment.

 

To sum up:

 

This game should feel like it's giving you lots and lots of play options, even when it secretly is not. Having so many frames encourages players to go try stuff out. Any mission that makes players think "hold on, I really should park my favorite frame and go and get another, cause I'll get killed fast in here otherwise" may not be the best thing to do to players. Many 4 team combos of different frames should be the Force Multipliers that the Tenno have, and alas, sometime, a non-optimal combo might be more likely to get the team slaughtered, but heck, you can't always have everything.

[InForWar]

I made a few comments that I don't like the new infested flying bastards, but I'd like to make a few things clear:

 

Me and mates are sitting up on high ledges sending Penta round after Penta round into the Crypod slaughtering infested by the hundreds. Only when an infested flying osprey comes into view we go into "combat mode" and prioritize their destruction over ANYTHING else there might be. we carry anti-infested, modded, hitscan secondaries just for that.

 

This is wrong on so many levels. First off, there should never be any place on a map we are "safe". Secondly, the Ancients should be the biggest threat, and the flying or crawling or running everything else should be the icing on the cake that adds a secondary layer to the Ancients threat level, basically what is referred to as a force multiplier:

 

"Force multiplication, in military usage, refers to an attribute or a combination of attributes which make a given force more effective than that same force would be without it ... for example, if a certain technology like GPS enables a force to accomplish the same results of a force five times as large but without GPS, then the multiplier is five."

 

It is not working that way, and until your average Defence mission against the infected starts to feel more like a fight for your life then an Affinity farming camp, the infested ospreys will feel "out of place".

 

I don't mind hard fights, heck, I'd like my team to be slaughtered more often, as long as it was because we made tactical mistakes, not because we open a door and we get poison pooped on instantly by 5 flying clouds of poison. If you think such a thing is totally fair, then surely the infested should just breed flying ospreys to deal with the Tenno, no? How many times have you heard "they are hard to see", well they are. I'm also telling you that, and if you're going that route, just make them invisible, to me it will barely make a difference, I'll just Rhino stomp the instant I see a green cloud in the vicinity, and Penta the general area.

 

The game should constantly throw Rock, Paper and Scissors at us forcing is to reply with a counter, and punish us for mistakes. It does not currently feel like that, and I have yet to see any comments that address that, other then "learn 2 play better", because if the game were to continue to introduce units that simply force players to use a single tactic, then all Teams that run Defence MIssions will end up containing 4 Infested Impedence Aura's, backed up by 4 Penta rifles, AKBoltos and maybe Glaives, so no one has to move from a super high spot on a map other then jump down (or Dimension Door, or Grapple hook or Switch Teleport ... you get the idea) to go pick up drops.

 

Me and a mate that used to play Total Annihilation A LOT once tried a custom unit set (space map and spaceships) on a hard AI. After a number of hours, we only won by a term I call "turret creep", meaning we kept building massive clusters of stationary guns in order to replace losses, and stop units sneaking by, because the AI was FAR too efficient then us at micromanaging factories. Basically we "brute forced it". It was not fun, and we never did that again. Note I did not say "hard", I said "not fun". The poison ospreys are not "hard" they are simply "not fun" at the moment.

 

To sum up:

 

This game should feel like it's giving you lots and lots of play options, even when it secretly is not. Having so many frames encourages players to go try stuff out. Any mission that makes players think "hold on, I really should park my favorite frame and go and get another, cause I'll get killed fast in here otherwise" may not be the best thing to do to players. Many 4 team combos of different frames should be the Force Multipliers that the Tenno have, and alas, sometime, a non-optimal combo might be more likely to get the team slaughtered, but heck, you can't always have everything.

Today, they had removed ospreys  temporarily from all defense missions.

They're fixing them up, readying them to not get stuck in every place possible, and bringing them back to us with less annoyance.

Cheers.

[Marthrym]

The infested ospreys are not "OP". They're kinda $&*&*#(%& actually...

Poison is broken as frack though. The proc is... DOOM.^^

[BrazilianJoe]

*knight shakes sword at dragon* land so that I can kill you "fairly"!

Dragon: How about no? *roasts knight with fire in a flyby*

 

Hint: use a glaive or kestrel to kill ospreys with melee. ;)

[Tar_Spit_Fire]

Exactly!  The complaining on here is a bit too harsh given the situation, I understand them getting stuck in missions and making mission longer, and I also think they're a problem when their shot zone is so small for scanners and just shooting them down, but the main problem here is really the players not use to something harder, not use to equipping mods for defense or health.  Throwing on Antitoxin as a mod made my Nekros almost unkillable, and I went in with almost no shields and very little health.  

Players just need to think and use what they have around them.

lies is too stronk in this one

[LouisThau]

As mentionned in an other post :

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/252933-lets-just-make-a-petition-to-fix-mutalist-ospreys/

 

These are the ideas proposed to change, or keep the ospreys a good ennemy :

 

- Yes the poison proc is too high ; the insta-kill at high/veryhigh levels is more than an issue, as in narrow spaces with more than one osprey the entire team can go down, or are forced to reach higher ground and leave their teammates to die. The "map cloud of death" that can happen when more than 2 ospreys go spam-charging is an issue.

 

- The fact that they are hard to hit is challenging enough I think - no modification needed : Waframe is still a TPS - A little aim is needed from the player ^^ - Adjust your sights tennos ^^

 

- The idea of changing to viral proc would be interesting, but it would require a damage buff, as it does not DoT, and if need to keep the monster challenging enough. Keeping the Poison proc is also an option, but would require either making the attack pattern more obvious (as mentionned above) with noise and/or reduction of the area of the cloud. My personnal idea would be to remove the cloud but, like the corpus oxium osprey, to cause the poison proc (buffed) or a smaller gas cloud if he manages to hit you at the end of the charge - like the self destruct of his brother - this would promote dodging manuvers (ninja ^^) while giving a bit of breathing space.

 

- The fact that global CCs like Bastille or Vortex do not work on them is also an issue : Bastille does not stop them and they can rush out of the vortex if a tenno gets too close - I don't know if that was intended, but in high level defenses in narrow spaces, It become impossible to survive a rush of more than one of them, except with very specific team compositions and equipement.

 

Other than that, I personnaly like the little buggers, as they keept me on my toes during the breeding ground event (and occasionnaly on the ground ^^). It is nice to have a challenging ennemy that can force you to "play well to survive" and to coordinate with your teammates to bring down in order to ensure the survival of the team. I belieive that this was the idea behind the devellopement of such an ennemy, and, like a lot of this in Warframe, it needs just a little balance to make it perfect.

 

Let's all uphold the Balance Tennos !

[DSpite]

As mentionned in an other post :

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/252933-lets-just-make-a-petition-to-fix-mutalist-ospreys/

 

These are the ideas proposed to change, or keep the ospreys a good ennemy :

 

- Yes the poison proc is too high ; the insta-kill at high/veryhigh levels is more than an issue, as in narrow spaces with more than one osprey the entire team can go down, or are forced to reach higher ground and leave their teammates to die. The "map cloud of death" that can happen when more than 2 ospreys go spam-charging is an issue.

 

- The fact that they are hard to hit is challenging enough I think - no modification needed : Waframe is still a TPS - A little aim is needed from the player ^^ - Adjust your sights tennos ^^

 

- The idea of changing to viral proc would be interesting, but it would require a damage buff, as it does not DoT, and if need to keep the monster challenging enough. Keeping the Poison proc is also an option, but would require either making the attack pattern more obvious (as mentionned above) with noise and/or reduction of the area of the cloud. My personnal idea would be to remove the cloud but, like the corpus oxium osprey, to cause the poison proc (buffed) or a smaller gas cloud if he manages to hit you at the end of the charge - like the self destruct of his brother - this would promote dodging manuvers (ninja ^^) while giving a bit of breathing space.

 

- The fact that global CCs like Bastille or Vortex do not work on them is also an issue : Bastille does not stop them and they can rush out of the vortex if a tenno gets too close - I don't know if that was intended, but in high level defenses in narrow spaces, It become impossible to survive a rush of more than one of them, except with very specific team compositions and equipement.

 

Other than that, I personnaly like the little buggers, as they keept me on my toes during the breeding ground event (and occasionnaly on the ground ^^). It is nice to have a challenging ennemy that can force you to "play well to survive" and to coordinate with your teammates to bring down in order to ensure the survival of the team. I belieive that this was the idea behind the devellopement of such an ennemy, and, like a lot of this in Warframe, it needs just a little balance to make it perfect.

 

Let's all uphold the Balance Tennos !

 

I've told basically this to another mate of mine about a totally different game months back:

 

If a game has one particular enemy, that you could send instead of any other unit in the game, in large quantities, and kill the players easily, then why would the enemy not just send those?

 

You know you have a balance only when each and every unit in the game is made stronger and more effective when combined with other units, with each unit having weaknesses and strenghts. If you are playing an RTS and one particular unit works on everything, the same problem would occur, with the difference being that since you have a human, thinking player on the other end, they would be smart enough to just send those, while a computer AI is programmed to send a mix of units.

 

If DE just wants to kill us a lot, then by all means, just do whatever they think they need to do, and we will adapt, but it will force us to probably cut down on what frame and abilities we use. If they want to make it still fun for anyone to take anything in and just think more and adapt on the fly more while in mission, the Ospreys would need a bit of tweaking.

 

As I said elsewhere, I don't find them hard to kill, just annoying, and when we get a pull down menu where we save preset slots with Frame, weapons and color schemes, I'll just have a "Anti-flying fekkers" build just for when I know there will be a metric ton of them.