Shield Bypassing Hp Damage - Unwanted

[Gigaus]

I only skimmed through this, but it seems you don't really know how to play. For one, you're using Rhino for everything. Noob mistake. Yes, he's op as hell, but those who JUST play rhino for Iron Skin really don't know how to play.

Secondly, the only Shield bypassing damage type is toxic, so you need to get rid of those things. If you aren't paying attention, you WILL die. So if everything is hitting your heath, get better mods, and pay attention to whats happening around you.

 

 

I agree with storm.

You just dont know how to play.

you specifically said "rush in a timely manner to complete objectives" when the point of the game is to stay with teamates, and obviouselly. since there was a new thret.

rather then go

"LOL ROFLZORENCOPTER THROUGH THE MAP IM OP FAST"

then die because you're to stupid to look where you're going first

you actually have to slow down and look.

the green cloud is easily visable on my screen, and I play with the lowest graphics setting.

Second, the damage types make moding your frame more interesting.

rather then the same old copy past beta build

flow-redirection-vitality-steel fiber-streamline- intensity - 4 frame mods

you actually have to pick and choose what you want

"Add toxic resistance because of the new enemy? add electrical resistance because of arc traps? use codex to scan ahead for traps, and enemies?"

Theres a verity of ways to counter your "IM RHNIO AND I RUSH MISSIONS WITH IRONSKIN, UNLESS ITS DEFENSE THEN I USE NYX AND SIT BACK" mind set .

 

I love the people claiming that OP is a noob, yet are too noobish to even offer advice. 'I know better than you, and you have to trust me on it'. First off, shut up....I can't facepalm hard enough to express how stuck up you two sound. Second, if either of you two read instead of facerolled your keyboard, you'd have noticed OP said s/he hadn't played in some updates, so these changes are sudden for them. Using Rhino constaintly when you only play occasionally is a good way to safeguard against DE's bipolar updates and changes. Calling them out for playing it SAFE instead of trying to swing their epeen around is a good thing, not a bad one. 

 

 

the playerbase is exposed once again as being way too coddled and unable to adapt or make any changes... all of this crying over something that you can fix yourself. stop using caster mods and use tank mods. its really not difficult.

 

im gonna go with the rest of the guys posting in this and similar threads... a whole lot of you all need to get and take some L2P supplements, because you are severely lacking in the skillset dept

 

....Again, can you guys read, or....did you skip that in lesson in grade school. you're basically saying that someone who hasn't played the new game should be able to adapt mid-mission to what is excessive changes. Poison damage usually takes off 100+ without antitoxin on, and something like 75 WITH it on. That's not including Electrical, Slash, and Lasers. And guys, maybe a lot of you are just terrabad at paying attention-- like these guys above-- but health orbs drops have been reduced to 5% chance to drop. So guess what, OP's point is valid, not your's. YOu either have to bring a healer now to get through higher level missions, or start bringing Health Packs, and sit in one spot while enemies pelt you with gun fire....Or as the epeen guys here would call it 'taking damage like a pro!'

 

And this goes out to the rest of the know-nothings in the thread; If you don't have a suggestion to make or offer other than 'get better scrub', you're a troll and not a very good one....which makes me surprised that the Mods aren't doing their job....

 

What OP is *@##$ing, legitimately, about is the fact the more we get these direct damage procs, the more everyongs pretty much going to build the same exact thing...Which makes me laugh a little, since half the people whining that OP sucks are claiming is that they're failing because they're building exact same thing as everyone else.....It won't be long until we see nothing but Vit-Steel-Antitox-Fire Rep- Lightning Rod...And NO ONE ever puts on rediect because it's useless. 

 

And as to my advice; Keep rolling Rhino and Trinity, and Frost and Val until the whiny kids above scream bloody murder for their nerf [again] to justify their own skill somehow. Grab Anti Toxin and Steel Fiber if you can, and Quick Thinking if you can. Don't worry about picking up Vitality or Redirect; they're totally useless at higher levels. Just focus on boosting Steel Fiber to max and getting frames with High Armor. That's about all you can do....Or, grab Nekros and just start spawing HP orbs for yourself. 

 

If your definition of challenge doesn't include load out concerns, then I'm not interested.  Warframe has RPG roots as deep as it's action roots.  Picking the right cards should be every bit as important as using them.  Twitch reflexes should matter - but they should not be able to save you with any reliability from poor setup.  Not should proper setup be able to save you from terrible reflexes.

 

Also, I needed to pick this out- AHAHAHHHAHAHHHAHAHAHHHAH-- no.....

 

Warframes roots is NOT from RPG, you nitwit......It's roots were from a TPS more akin to Resident Evil crossed with Dead Space before Issac could speak. DE shoehorned in the RPG elements to give them an excuse to have RNG to make up for their lack of innovation in an unknown territory for them. If you really think that Warframe is really like an RPG, you probably have never played an RPG......And for that matter, probably have never played well in Warframe either; Twitch reflexes matter a lot more than loadout...Especially when your Loadout means fk all because the devs decided 'we're going to throw in mechanics without telling anyone, and watch what happens.' 

Edited June 25, 2014 by Gigaus

[Taranis49]

If your definition of challenge doesn't include load out concerns, then I'm not interested.  Warframe has RPG roots as deep as it's action roots.  Picking the right cards should be every bit as important as using them.  Twitch reflexes should matter - but they should not be able to save you with any reliability from poor setup.  Not should proper setup be able to save you from terrible reflexes.

 

Any challenge that can't be overcome primarily by player skill is anything but. Gear checks aren't challenge, they're the removal of them.

 

Note that even in (in)famously challenging/unforgiving Action RPG's like say, Dark Souls, no-bonfire/level up runs and naked runs are a thing.

[Gigaus]

Any challenge that can't be overcome primarily by player skill is anything but. Gear checks aren't challenge, they're the removal of them.

 

Note that even in (in)famously challenging/unforgiving Action RPG's like say, Dark Souls, no-bonfire/level up runs and naked runs are a thing.

 

This....If your game is about owning stuff, then it isn't designed well, and not challanging...Especially if owning that stuff is purely luck based. Challenge implies there's skill involved; Rolling dice on a loot table hand hoping Nuffle is on your side today is not skillful nor Challenging. 

 

And, Phatose, please don't try to compare D/D to Warframe, or any video game please...D/D is a TTRPG, where you can get out of a lot of situations by PLAYING YOUR CHARACTER AND ACTUALLY RPING.......at best, most RPGs today are RPG loot and stat systems with none of hte actual Role Playing elements involved....And Warframe...Warframes doesn't even have THAT. 

[DiabolusUrsus]

I think you're making a number of mistakes in regards to what RPGs are.  Rogue-likes are a subtype of RPG, and they're basically random.  Go back to the roots - D&D, grandfather of basically all RPGs, you weren't actually guaranteed much of anything.  Even something as basic as hitpoints was RNG, as were your significant stats.  Equipment was entirely up to the whim of the DM - and if he was following the DM's guide, loot was random too. 

 

Heavy dependence on RNG is not something anti-RPG.  It's practically the root of the system. 

 

 

While a heavier focus on action elements is desirable in my book,  nothing you've said changes my stance on this.  These complaints are not coming from people who do not have the resources to counter these attacks.  They're coming from people who simply are not using those resources. 

 

Rogue-likes are also structured around the player being able to quickly accumulate and grow accustomed to their necessary equipment, and there is  typically nothing that is lacking in a readily identifiable use. They can be random because they are designed to be random as a part of their replayability. Warframe is in no way, shape, or form designed around the use-it-and-lose-it rogue-like structure. 

 

You bring up D&D as an example of RNG reliance... but... there's the DM, right? If the DM is competent, he/she covers for where RNG fails to provide an interesting or fun experience. RNG in progenitory RPGs is there to simulate the random chance that is intrinsic to the actual sequence of events in action combat and associated gameplay. Now that the action element has been included there is no space - or need - for RNG-driven gameplay elements. RNG-based loot is fine, but the game should not be built in such a way that it treats RNG-based loot as reliably accessible loot. 

 

I didn't say heavy dependence on RNG was anti-RPG. It's perfectly possible to design a fun and interesting game around RNG... but the game needs to be designed around working with RNG. Warframe is built around action-based gameplay with RNG tacked on as an afterthought for the purpose of delaying players long enough that they consider purchasing content instead of grinding for it. That is all. 

 

Whether or not the people complaining are the people most affected by the existing system flaws is irrelevant. The flaw existing to begin with is what is relevant. That's actually kind of my point. People are always content to say "git gud" when they are discussing something that is (for them) a relative non-issue. It's easy to overlook problems that aren't bothering you, but that doesn't stop them from being problems. Warframe does have RPG elements, true, but it is built around a core of action combat. 

 

Let me put it this way:

 

Earlier Final Fantasy games (FFIII, for example) featured a game system where gear (weapons, armor, purchased spells, etc) was a very large factor in a player's survival and success with the game. However, when going up against the Cloud of Darkness, it wasn't your Dragon Lance, or Muramasa, or Crystal Helm that saved your characters from death and defeat. It was your ability to attack, defend, and cast Cura or summon Bahamut at the right times during the battle. It was your ability to maintain a strong enough defense while putting out a potent enough offense. Gear checks were rather severe, yes, but the player's success ultimately fell to their ability to succeed at the action portion of the game. The part that required their interactivity rather than passive possession of static benefits. 

 

You can say that player loadouts should matter all you like, and I'll agree with you, too. However, that doesn't change the fact that suggesting a passing gear-check loadout in response to someone's criticism of the action elements of combat is a total BS response that people should be ashamed to give. It ignores existing flaws with enemy design and player balance that have been longstanding issues contributing to both player burnout and a poor new player experience, and assumes that things would be working fine if the complainant would simply learn to play properly... i.e. pray to RNGesus that they have the mods/Warframes/weapons recommended for success. If you think players slotting anti-toxin and/or Rejuvenation will solve the problems with Mutalist Ospreys and the like, you don't understand the problem.  

Edited June 25, 2014 by DiabolusUrsus

[arisaka]

Vitality solves the Toxic/Bleeding problem. Whilst I'm aware not everybody has a maxed one, for me personally I do - I've sat in the fart-clouds from start to end and been absolutely fine. I main Trinity these days (I love the heal build she has now), but also am competent on almost every frame, and even if you don't have a maxed Vitality, Excal's Radial Blind for example renders the farters inert, Embers Accelerant cast once every...3-4 seconds? To keep the enemies stunned, Hydroids Cannon to cause knockdown etc.

 

Know your abilities, know your enemies

Once again it's obvious that gear is more important against these kinds of enemies than it should be. You mentioned one mod and four frames...and zero gear-independent strategies. Unfortunately such is the case in Warframe where too often the game devolves to spamming AOE disables and blasting the map with DPS cannons which is 80% knowledge/gear and 20% skill.

 

EDIT: improved wording

Edited June 25, 2014 by arisaka

[DuWryght]

I hear in the next patch, all the enemies will proc bleed and toxic dmg. the 2 will create an infected status that literally kills you and revives you as a Phorid for a few seconds before locking you account...

[Viverim]

Vitality does not solve the problem.  It merely prolongs it.  Trinity, as a heal-bot, can overcome Health which does not regenerate.  Pausing the damage does not prevent it from happening again.  And the tendency for 3+ disruptors to appear at the same time as Ospreys means there is a good chance you will have 0 energy to cast with anyway.

 

This could be done much better.  Being insufficiently impressed with one aspect of the game does not imply disliking the game or the DE team, but if one notices what one sees as a deficiency, especially if people wish to keep using the "open beta" excuse, then one needs to give feedback in forums such as this one so that the DE team can see what concerns the community has.

[Renegade343]

Vitality solves the Toxic/Bleeding problem. Whilst I'm aware not everybody has a maxed one, for me personally I do - I've sat in the fart-clouds from start to end and been absolutely fine. I main Trinity these days (I love the heal build she has now), but also am competent on almost every frame, and even if you don't have a maxed Vitality, Excal's Radial Blind for example renders the farters inert, Embers Accelerant cast once every...3-4 seconds? To keep the enemies stunned, Hydroids Cannon to cause knockdown etc.

 

Know your abilities, know your enemies

No more "Know your abilities", "get X frame", "get X weapon", "use X mod" answers. 

 

Tackle the core of the problem (toxic scaling damage + scaling DOT) instead of covering it with weak solutions. 

[Naftal]

Vitality does not solve the problem.  It merely prolongs it.  Trinity, as a heal-bot, can overcome Health which does not regenerate.  Pausing the damage does not prevent it from happening again.  And the tendency for 3+ disruptors to appear at the same time as Ospreys means there is a good chance you will have 0 energy to cast with anyway.

 

This could be done much better.  Being insufficiently impressed with one aspect of the game does not imply disliking the game or the DE team, but if one notices what one sees as a deficiency, especially if people wish to keep using the "open beta" excuse, then one needs to give feedback in forums such as this one so that the DE team can see what concerns the community has.

Just as using a better weapon/mods doesn't solve the problem of you not doing enough damage, merely prolongs it. DE pls remove hp from enemies because there is no solution to that problem.

 

There are not supposed to be solutions that make the situation disappear, there are solutions that help you deal with the situations.

 

Also, if you get hit by Disruptor magnetic proc, you just failed against the infested and will be punished for that failure.

[DeadX65]

I only skimmed through this, but it seems you don't really know how to play. For one, you're using Rhino for everything. Noob mistake. Yes, he's op as hell, but those who JUST play rhino for Iron Skin really don't know how to play.

Secondly, the only Shield bypassing damage type is toxic, so you need to get rid of those things. If you aren't paying attention, you WILL die. So if everything is hitting your heath, get better mods, and pay attention to whats happening around you.

actually you don't know how to play, bleed proc bypasses shields as well. shields are there for a reason, somehow they protect us from the vacuum of space, bullets, energy weapons, radiation, etc...but a gas cloud just goes right through? not to mention bleed procs, how can you get bled if the shield stops the projectile?

 

space magic >.>

 

warframe is an absolute mess of logic holes, lore and game play mechanics inconsistencies, doesn't mean it can't be fun, but unless you have your head in the sand the game is an absolute train wreck in many areas.

Edited June 25, 2014 by DeadX65

[Viverim]

Just as using a better weapon/mods doesn't solve the problem of you not doing enough damage, merely prolongs it. DE pls remove hp from enemies because there is no solution to that problem.

 

There are not supposed to be solutions that make the situation disappear, there are solutions that help you deal with the situations.

 

Also, if you get hit by Disruptor magnetic proc, you just failed against the infested and will be punished for that failure.

Mindless response #1.  Good job.  Now, level up your sarcasm skills a bit and I *might* become impressed.

 

And you've never, ever been hit by a disruptor?  Wow.  how long have you been playing?  You've never been in the middle of a 20 man infested mob and been whacked from 5 yards away by that Disruptor that just walked in through the door behind you?  Dang you're awesome!

 

In the real world, however, you cannot dictate the terms of what happens just by wishing it were so.

[Naftal]

Mindless response #1.  Good job.  Now, level up your sarcasm skills a bit and I *might* become impressed.

 

And you've never, ever been hit by a disruptor?  Wow.  how long have you been playing?  You've never been in the middle of a 20 man infested mob and been whacked from 5 yards away by that Disruptor that just walked in through the door behind you?  Dang you're awesome!

 

In the real world, however, you cannot dictate the terms of what happens just by wishing it were so.

The first paragraph was using the same reasoning you use. Yes it was sarcasm and I'm sorry I'm not better at that but it is irrelevant. It was to show how bad your own argument is. The second paragraph explained more.

 

Of course I have been hit by a Disruptor. I make mistakes too. But if I make the mistake of getting hit by that very easily dodged attack, I expect the punishment of not being able to use my energy for a while.

 

There are plenty of solutions to shield bypassing damage in form of mods, abilities and gameplay choices. If you don't want to use those solutions it's your choice.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Naftal

[Viverim]

Requiring someone to use Rejuvenate because they are fighting Corpus/Gerneer and are going to get hit with stacking bleed procs isn't a good solution. There is no mod that will prevent you from having you energy drained by Disruptors/leech eximus.  Gameplay can. to an extent, mollify this, but when you take an elevator up to the next floor and there is a mob of disruptors / Leech Eximus standing in your face, there's not much you can do about it.

 

If the game is about choice, and the number of weapons and frames would seem to indicate that the DE team does, in fact, want us to have interesting choices, then requiring the use of Rhino, etc to survive certain gameplay mechanics isn't very intuitive.

 

You like the current system and think it's great.  I'm not trying to dissuade your opinion.

Don't automatically dismiss mine just because it diverges from yours.

[Otaiken]

The problem with restores is that they're stationary and slow. This is fast paced game.. you need to move around especially against infested. Stopping every minute to stand around and wait for the restore to finish is tedious at best.

 

Restores are essentially made for defense modes, everywhere else they're annoying to use. BTW the more you stand around, the more enemies will spawn around you and hence your chance of getting yet another bleeding proc on you increases. Many times I left a room after restore only to get hit by another bleed right away... well, might as well stand around a little longer.

 

Also, forcing players to use specific mods is not exactly a solution. Every faction has direct to HP damage. So it's not like you built to counter specific faction. High shield low HP frames get screwed.. and can't really counter this... since armor and HP mods are multiplicative, while armored frames get even more trivial to play as they get heaps of survivability from those mods.

 

Imho at this point at least armor mods should be additive. OMG I increased my 15 armor by 80%.. IM INVINCIBLE!! 

Edited June 25, 2014 by LocoWithGun

[Mak_Gohae]

No more "Know your abilities", "get X frame", "get X weapon", "use X mod" answers. 

 

Tackle the core of the problem (toxic scaling damage + scaling DOT) instead of covering it with weak solutions. 

 

Everything scales, if scaling is a problem then people would be flipping out about every type of damage.

But they are not, why? This is the real question here.

 

 

Requiring someone to use Rejuvenate because they are fighting Corpus/Gerneer and are going to get hit with stacking bleed procs isn't a good solution. There is no mod that will prevent you from having you energy drained by Disruptors/leech eximus.  Gameplay can. to an extent, mollify this, but when you take an elevator up to the next floor and there is a mob of disruptors / Leech Eximus standing in your face, there's not much you can do about it.

 

If the game is about choice, and the number of weapons and frames would seem to indicate that the DE team does, in fact, want us to have interesting choices, then requiring the use of Rhino, etc to survive certain gameplay mechanics isn't very intuitive.

 

You like the current system and think it's great.  I'm not trying to dissuade your opinion.

Don't automatically dismiss mine just because it diverges from yours.

 

The game doesnt require you to do anything. But it does provide tool to help you if you are having some difficulty. If you dont want to use those tools then it's up to you to figure out a solution for what you have. I dont run shields most of the time i play this game so it's up to me to not get his as often. The game has the ability to lets you switch stuff on the fly, if you dont want to use it you cant blame the game.

[Archistopheles]

Everything scales, if scaling is a problem then people would be flipping out about every type of damage.

But they are not, why? This is the real question here.

 

Because, title of the thread, Mak. Lol.

 

If our health recovered like our shields did, this thread would never have been written.

[Mak_Gohae]

Because, title of the thread, Mak. Lol.

 

If our health recovered like our shields did, this thread would never have been written.

 

Exactly.

People are complaining because they are not provided with an easy out.

If it was easy like this easy thing, everything would be cool.

Seriously, people dont even want to spend a few braincells thinking they just want to run through.

It's time to start to adapt and put a little brainjuice to the situation.

The game it's trying to kill you so you have to counter it.

[Archistopheles]

Exactly.

People are complaining because they are not provided with an easy out.

If it was easy like this easy thing, everything would be cool.

Seriously, people dont even want to spend a few braincells thinking they just want to run through.

It's time to start to adapt and put a little brainjuice to the situation.

The game it's trying to kill you so you have to counter it.

 

The problem is that you're looking at it from a player's point of view - as an in-game challenge to be overcome.

 

Look at it from a game designer's point of view - Is random damage that bipasses shielding fair for players when there is no reliable way of recovering health?

 

Is it fair at level 1?

 

Is it fair at level 25?

 

Is it fair at level 50?

 

I can see arguments being made for top-tier of play, but you're still killing players by random procs, and not for making poor decisions.

[Viverim]

A minor health regeneration isn't an "easy out".  If the enemy has the means of reducing your Health, then you need a means of restoring it.  Health orbs are one way to do so.  Heal-bot frames are another.  If there is no means to recover health, then survivability suffers badly.  Since health orbs are highly uncommon, an alternative means is being asked for.

 

6,828 posts must mean you've been around a while.  So, I am assuming 90% of the mods, most of them maxed out.  Good for you.

Not everyone has access to your level of resources.

 

It's easy to champion how simple things are when you are at the heights of superiority.  The guy who just started, however, isn't going to have that level of l33t ubreness.  If the game becomes overpopulated with toxic/knockdown/leech/ etc enemies without a means of balancing those enemies, the new player isn't going to stick around.  If you value the game you should *want* new people to enter and enjoy the game.  it promotes growth.  Instead most of your replies sound like "you suck, git gud", and that isn't helpful at all.

[letir]

Exactly.

People are complaining because they are not provided with an easy out.

If it was easy like this easy thing, everything would be cool.

Seriously, people dont even want to spend a few braincells thinking they just want to run through.

It's time to start to adapt and put a little brainjuice to the situation.

The game it's trying to kill you so you have to counter it.

Counter with skill? Nope, counter with right frame (tanky one) and Rejuvenation.

It's S#&$ty gamedesign.

[Steelfeathers]

Instead of dumbing the game down, why not take the extra 0.5 seconds to, quoting Nick from Left 4 Speed 2, "Guys, we're going around it!"

[Arunafeltz]

Meh. I just switched from Redirection to Vitality after Damage 2.0 and when I die I pretty much just suck it up. I still use Rejuvenation a lot lately though since I kinda switched to masochistic Rage builds. Toxin clouds are one thing, but the magnetic clouds in Breeding Grounds are the real killer since you get damage to health right after it saps your shields.

[Liminal]

I think shield ignoring damage is too common. It should be saved for a special occasion :P

[Viverim]

Most traps (excluding arc traps) are static and able to be dodged.  You are going to get shot by a greneer or corpus at some point, and every single shot seems capable of putting a bleed effect on you.  The chance may be low, but you are getting shot at a LOT, so the chance increases slightly just by the law of averages (one has to proc at some point if the % is over 0). 

 

There are a bunch of auras out there.  You shouldn't have to ignore them all because you need Rejuvenation on your Mag to help you survive toxic damage.

 

As was stated earlier, some frames are built with low shield/high health and some with the reverse.  Toxic/bleed punishes low health frames with a random (or, in the Osprey's case, not so random) proc that could either kill you on its own or leave you practically helpless with no means of in-mission recovery. 

 

If the game is intended to favor only high health frames, then they should just hand everyone a Rhino or a Zephyr and toss all of the low health frames out of the game completely.

[Viverim]

I think shield ignoring damage is too common. It should be saved for a special occasion :P

I completely agree with this.