Shield Bypassing Hp Damage - Unwanted

[Terrornaut]

4) It should be more rare. Reduce the amount of enemies that use it. 

I Hope that shield bypassing gets removed. Its annoying and not much of a challenge, whether I'm on Ember or on Valkyr.  Something that bypasses shields should be rare, and avoidable (IE not on hitscan weapons or radiate out of a mob).

DE. Abilities that don't compliment others and have no counterplay are not fun for people!  Where there is risk, there should be reward. 

I still haven't made that risk vs reward post to DE, but, its one of their weaker areas for design concepts.
 

[Rettycombine]

The first few pages really shows how bright and non-toxic the community has gotten!

 

Right guys?

 

Right?

[Archistopheles]

The first few pages really shows how bright and non-toxic the community has gotten!

 

Right guys?

 

Right?

 

Hey man, sometimes people argue just to argue :]

[jwya]

I agree with storm.

You just dont know how to play.

you specifically said "rush in a timely manner to complete objectives" when the point of the game is to stay with teamates, and obviouselly. since there was a new thret.

rather then go

"LOL ROFLZORENCOPTER THROUGH THE MAP IM OP FAST"

then die because you're to stupid to look where you're going first

Sadly it's these bastards who ROFLCOPTER (they don't even use dual zoren, how sad for the original copter) and press 4 every 2 seconds who rush ahead and finish first, leaving the other 3 guys to die in an ambush- if there are enemy survivors after their constant 4'ing

As for iron skin, I'd just say it's useful if ur team runs into magnetic mass proc (I.e. an eximus hiding close enough to proc, hekcopter's red thunder etc) but should stay there instead of being an absolute crutch (like rhinos who build themselves like a spellcaster with 450 shields, 300 health and an iron skin that survives even jackal's grenade spray, unless it no longer OHKOs ppl)

[jwya]

The only shield bypassing damage that isn't very easy to dodge with game play choices are random slash procs but I haven't seen a dangerously big slash proc in a long time, playing any content.

The proc end of stalker's dread isn't very nice

"But it's easily dodged"

Well sorry I have slow reflexes

"Then get punished"

K CAN

TLDR: dread's bleed is pretty pain imo.

Ignore the pointless banter

[pixelsafoison]

Are you kidding me? You're complaining about difficulty? This game is far too easy we need WAY more ennemies like that that pose a real threat - i'm tired of feeling like i'm in godmode all the time.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

To everyone saying to put health mods on shield based frames- What the flying F*** is wrong with you?

You don't build a Gorgon for crit damage, you don't build a Mag for ability duration. Why the hell would you build a shield based frame for high health? Why /should/ you? Because the devs can't build us a challenge without circumventing our defenses entirely? What rubbish is that?!

[Mak_Gohae]

To everyone saying to put health mods on shield based frames- What the flying F*** is wrong with you?

You don't build a Gorgon for crit damage, you don't build a Mag for ability duration. Why the hell would you build a shield based frame for high health? Why /should/ you? Because the devs can't build us a challenge without circumventing our defenses entirely? What rubbish is that?!

 

So you are not going to help yourself because you are not "supposed" to put vitality mods on Mag or Loki?

What kind of crazy idea is that?

[StrahlTiger]

Honestly, I like the danger of the toxic clouds. It makes the infested far more dangerous and makes you show them more respect. Both to the way you handle them, and the way you set your loadout, especially auras. Of course, I've been playing since back when toxic ancients left that frustrating green cloud upon death. It makes you think about bringing health packs, or maybe swapping out energy siphon for regeneration.

 

The bleed proc through shields is what frustrates me. The toxins are biological and I could see the possibility that the tenno are breathing them in or something. The shield is there SPECIFICALLY to deflect and absorb bullets, though. So how does a bullet or projectile blocked by my shield make me bleed? That just drives me absolutely nuts. Ontop of that, the bleed proc seems to be FAR more deadly to us than them.

[Renegade343]

The bleed proc through shields is what frustrates me. The toxins are biological and I could see the possibility that the tenno are breathing them in or something. The shield is there SPECIFICALLY to deflect and absorb bullets, though. So how does a bullet or projectile blocked by my shield make me bleed? That just drives me absolutely nuts. Ontop of that, the bleed proc seems to be FAR more deadly to us than them.

Have a solution for you about that. 

 

Link: 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/236973-some-suggestions-to-make-gameplay-more-engagingrewarding-edit-19-status-chance-rework/ (see EDIT 18). 

[Viverim]

Honestly, I like the danger of the toxic clouds. It makes the infested far more dangerous and makes you show them more respect. Both to the way you handle them, and the way you set your loadout, especially auras. Of course, I've been playing since back when toxic ancients left that frustrating green cloud upon death. It makes you think about bringing health packs, or maybe swapping out energy siphon for regeneration.

Honestly, no.  It doesn't make me think before I do a load out.  I just toss on Rejuvenation and be done with.  No thought involved.  Plus, toxic damage makes the other auras, for me, completely pointless.  Also, I don't respect the Infested one bit more than before.  Just the Osprey.  In fact, the Osprey is more dangerous, IMO, then the Ancients are.  Ancients are bigger, easier targets, and the go down faster.  Osprey are tiny targets that bob and weave and seem to have as many, if not more health than the Ancients do.

 

Something very wrong with a 'support' type who is more dangerous than the 'offensive' types it runs with.

[Naftal]

To everyone saying to put health mods on shield based frames- What the flying F*** is wrong with you?

You don't build a Gorgon for crit damage, you don't build a Mag for ability duration. Why the hell would you build a shield based frame for high health? Why /should/ you? Because the devs can't build us a challenge without circumventing our defenses entirely? What rubbish is that?!

By this logic, you also don't bring them into content where shield bypassing damage is a thing.

[K_Shiro]

Though the event showed the kinks of the new osprey and it was nerfed time after time, but it's among those certain things in the game that were managed to some point but ended up left midway. Or at least I feel it will get into that group.

 

I don't want a game without challenge but giving millions of hp to an enemy, invulnerability or damage that sends a maxed Rhino (with full iron skin) to the ground in a single hit won't end well, it happened before and never resulted in anything good.

To stay on spot, mentioned raise in HP drops wouldn't really solve the problem - namely because most of the time when we were hit by something too strong we went down WAY faster than to even be able to heal through inventory items (healing stuff when revive is need is not really helping) then the raise in hp globes would be meaningless (a dead person can't pick up health globes).

 

A sudden "you-are-out" situation is usually caused by one of the following:

- A poison cloud killing you in a single tic.

- You leave a poison cloud with barely enough hp just to notice that you were wrong when you didn't want to use heal items since the poison still lingers in your system and the last tic asks you nicely to lie down in a comfortable position.

- A surprisingly large bleeding effect (of course procced through shields - I will never get it how can someone Start bleeding when the cut never reached the body...) that you notice too late (or not at all).

- Knockdown, then get rushed down on the ground combo.

- High ranked grenade that you did not notice.

- Disruptor attack removing all your energy, shields, casting ability and even the information source about your status while in a tight situation (at this point you probably are if the enemies are not 20 ranks below you).

 

Most of these stuff are actual gameplay issues and cannot be addressed by adapting your playstyle.

Obviously the game does becomes "too easy" if there is nothing that can pose a threat to the player but having stuff that can outright harm you whatever you do is not a challenge, that's just annoying. It's fine if they are powerful and hard to protect against - just make it possible and refrain from plain trolling the players.

 

As for solutions just so I'm not just saying that stuff is bad but propose ways to solve the problems...

Poison: Doesn't damage at first, the longer you stand in it, the more the damage escalates (exponentially).

Knockdown: Allow movement on the ground. Nobody would try to actually get up when they know they can't. Let us crawl or something.

Bleeding: Allow bleeding to Continue after your shields have recharged (why would that close your wound?) but do not allow bleeding to start (proc) when your health wasn't affected by the attack.

Disruption: Disable casting, scramble ui. After effect pass, give us back our energy. Hell, at least disable picking up energy globes if it's meaningless anyways.

Forced stuff (like the getting up, the can-be-set-to-off-in-options vaulting move, climbing, rolling from falling, reload cancel on the slightest fall even if it's just a glitch when going down stairs, energy globe pickup when it's just a waste because you are disrupted, etc.) are always bad. It feels like we have less control.

Mainly that's my biggest problem with the "combo"/melee system, that we have no real control. You just smash E and the moves appear, without you ever doing them. A real combo system's combo is made up of your moves - different moves. Otherwise they are all the same combo and if the whole combo system only has one combo... Ah well, I'm already off the topic - and this I've already written about numerous times so why bother...

 

By the way, for non-poison related enemy weapons/abilities, incredibly powerful stuff brings up lore related questions - namely how are we so coveted by our enemies (our technology) if most of their stuff is actually better than ours?

[superhazevs]

chill

[FloraGreen]

Someone forgot about Life Strike? if you know you encounter poison why not equip it?

Besides Rhino needs a nerf, he is way too strong compared to most other frames. But really why not just taking Valkyr with rage and life strike, or invisability loki for that BG? worked for me and i didn't get downed once through the whole event.

 

on a sidenote the design council voted for enemies with the poison damage, and now the community who voted for it rant about it... i feel the masochism is strong within this community.

[Severuslanskerr]

Actually this whole situation finally gives our "hated" mods like rejuvenation and toxin resistance a good purpose (you got 3 different Warframe loadouts you could easylie make one especially against that toxic and hp damage (i know you have to throw out some more "ESSENTIAL" mods but if you have so much trouble dyingby direct hp damage i really recommend trying an alternative set of your mods

 

As for the above Rhino statements and hate/trolling im not playing rhino because i want "easy godmode" i play rhino because he has similyr abilities to my favourite anime charactere (and after a color job and wearing some weird glasses) he looks a bit like him too (XD)

 

You never truly know WHY someone plays a certain frame and you shouldnt think that warframe XY is always stereotype XY (like loki/Prime always being a troll)

[Xandis]

I like how OP just starts the topic and leaves to let everyone argue.

[(PSN)RocketPunch1221]

I only skimmed through this, but it seems you don't really know how to play. For one, you're using Rhino for everything. Noob mistake. Yes, he's op as hell, but those who JUST play rhino for Iron Skin really don't know how to play.

Secondly, the only Shield bypassing damage type is toxic, so you need to get rid of those things. If you aren't paying attention, you WILL die. So if everything is hitting your heath, get better mods, and pay attention to whats happening around you.

 

....but but but He's RANK12! FORMA'd GEAR! TOP RANK MODS! ......and you are telling me you can still die as a Rhino? *GASP*

Edited July 8, 2014 by (PS4)RocketPunch1221

[Schwood]

They really aren't that bad. 

 

 

P.S. - Unrelated but related...

Also, things seem to be getting more and more ridiculous in the damage department, and quickly getting out of balance. An osprey I didn't even know existed (behind me) zooms up and BOOOOM... wut happened? Am I dead? Or, sometimes something farts, and a barely visible green cloud appears, and most of my HP just melts away.  Or, I get shot by something, anything, and have to wonder if I got bleed procced or not, and cant really care, because there is nothing I can really do about it.

 

This actually bugs the !@#$ out of me. The invisible poison clouds from the toxic ancients. Seriously, it's the worst telegraphing (visible display of an enemy ability) of an enemy in the game.

 

 

Some people have no issue opening the menu and cycling between different things, but I find it extremely counter intuitive. It just doesn't... flow like the rest of the game does.

 

I'll agree with this. It's very unintuitive. 

[Kyenhael]

There are so many ways to deal with poison damage, ancients and ospreys. You can deal with it defensively, by using either a frame, mod (life strike) or gear that will heal you from the damage. By the way, you can assign hotkeys to your gear slots so you don't have to open the gear wheel every time you need to fight that poison tic. The other way to do it is offensively. Get a frame that has a AoE attack that can kill or immobilize it, or get AoE weapons such as the Ignis so you can hit the damn thing that won't sit still for a sec.

 

So there isn't only one answer to deal with this problem. There are several. You have the option to pick your poison (hehehe). If you want to play all missions with the same frame,weapons, and loadout, then you are handicapping yourself; you have to deal with it. You are a ninja, you pick the right tools for the job.