Is The Idea Of Mono-Tenno And Poly-Tenno More Obscure Than Ever?

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

It has always been one Tenno wearing many frames and they have never said other wise.

I dont understand where this idea came from becasue DE has never stated this.

All information about this subject revolves around one Tenno.

 

They have not explained what Tenno and that brings up some questions but the idea that you are one Tenno wearing frames is pretty set in stone.

 

  I am one of the strongest proponents of MonoTenno but I don't even say that it is set in stone. Citations would be useful, even desirable in my case, that underline this to be so. If it is one Tenno wearing different frames, then is this Tenno a shapeshifter? That is an expectable solution to me, but that is something that to my best understanding has not been provable. 

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

See, I'm still gonna have to disagree. I find it more interesting to explore the absolute limits of the human condition. What's so interesting about just another human in a powersuit? Transhumanism is fascinating, that's all I'm saying.

 

  ^ This, this is what I am talking about. Thank you.

[VegetableBasket]

A hell of a long time ago - and only once - Steve discredited the Gender-swap Frame skins request by saying that each Tenno is their respective Gender because that is the Gender of the person in the suit.

Right I specifically remember that comment, I am tempted to say Steve said the frame had a certain gender, not the Tenno, and the reason not to have gender swaps was more to keep a consistent character to the frames. The elegance of nyx might be lost on the male version, as a quick example. I'll dig around for that comment because I'm that bored right now and we'll see.

Edited June 21, 2014 by VegetableBasket

[Mak_Gohae]

  I am one of the strongest proponents of MonoTenno but I don't even say that it is set in stone. Citations would be useful, even desirable in my case, that underline this to be so. If it is one Tenno wearing different frames, then is this Tenno a shapeshifter? That is an expectable solution to me, but that is something that to my best understanding has not been provable. 

 

Like i said, this a different problem that doesnt really have to do with the question.

They said it plenty of times on the streams when explaining Affinity.

The Affinity is you, you and only you gaining experience.  

[ValhaHazred]

The elegance of nyx might be lost on the male version, as a quick example. 

 

Funny you should use Nyx as the example, since Excalibur has a masculine version of the same armour, just a different helm.

[-skimmer-]

Right I specifically remember that comment, I am tempted to say Steve said the frame had a certain gender, not the Tenno, and the reason not to have gender swaps was more to keep a consistent character to the frames. The elegance of nyx might be lost on the male version, as a quick example. I'll dig around for that comment because I'm that bored right now and we'll see.

 

Bad example. Nyx was created from a scraped genderswap of Excalibur.

 

edit: ninja´d

Edited June 21, 2014 by -skimmer-

[Shelldor]

See, I'm still gonna have to disagree. I find it more interesting to explore the absolute limits of the human condition. What's so interesting about just another human in a powersuit? Transhumanism is fascinating, that's all I'm saying.

That was already done no? maybe iam remembering wrong(the game is old) but omikron the nomad soul is exactly what your describing.

[ValhaHazred]

That was already done no? maybe iam remembering wrong(the game is old) but omikron the nomad soul is exactly what your describing.

 

Eclipse Phase too. The same character can go from being a man, to a woman, to a giant war mech, to a cybernetic octopus, to a hermaphroditic alien plant hybrid in the course of their lives. The limits of their bodies is literally their imagination.

 

If you are arguing against it because it's been done before, remember person-in-power-suit has been done a thousand and one times before. Originality is just clever remixing at this point.

Edited June 21, 2014 by ValhaHazred

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Right I specifically remember that comment, I am tempted to say Steve said the frame had a certain gender, not the Tenno, and the reason not to have gender swaps was more to keep a consistent character to the frames. The elegance of nyx might be lost on the male version, as a quick example. I'll dig around for that comment because I'm that bored right now and we'll see.

 

 

Funny you should use Nyx as the example, since Excalibur has a masculine version of the same armour, just a different helm.

 

 

Bad example. Nyx was created from a scraped genderswap of Excalibur.

 

edit: ninja´d

 

  Yeah, Nyx was the result of a design attempt to make alt gender for frames, and was scrapped. Since then Nyx became a unique frame with new powers. Also, Nyx is similar of the Nemesis frame in Dark Sector.

 

Eclipse Phase too. The same character can go from being a man, to a woman, to a giant war mech, to a cybernetic octopus, to a hermaphroditic alien plant hybrid in the course of their lives. The limits of their bodies is literally their imagination.

 

That was already done no? maybe iam remembering wrong(the game is old) but omikron the nomad soul is exactly what your describing.

 

  For every example you can come up with, their is x1000 as many that are just rehashes of the typical social norms. I know that this is conducive to simple player immersion, but seriously why be half hearted with the exploration of science fiction themes in Warframe?

 

Like i said, this a different problem that doesnt really have to do with the question.

They said it plenty of times on the streams when explaining Affinity.

The Affinity is you, you and only you gaining experience.  

 

  That has been my thinking too, but it isn't exactly concrete, and the only thing DE has really said on the subject is that they don't want to say. Check the video links in my first post, in this thread.

[Shelldor]

Eclipse Phase too. The same character can go from being a man, to a woman, to a giant war mech, to a cybernetic octopus, to a hermaphroditic alien plant hybrid in the course of their lives. The limits of their bodies is literally their imagination.

 

If you are arguing against it because it's been done before, remember person-in-power-suit has been done a thousand and one times before. Originality is just clever remixing at this point.

I wasnt argueing but trying to understand by thinking of an example.The only thing Id say about all this is what vision does digital extreme have for the warframe and whats inside.They mentioned specific genders then they mentioned is up to the player, I dont think they even know at this point lol.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I wasnt argueing but trying to understand by thinking of an example.The only thing Id say about all this is what vision does digital extreme have for the warframe and whats inside.They mentioned specific genders then they mentioned is up to the player, I dont think they even know at this point lol.

 

  Thats cool, I am just concerned with people saying that the topic is covered, and dismiss the idea outright. People play games, gotta be on top of it. I am fully willing to accept that DE either does or doesn't know for sure what the nature of the Mono/Poly-Tenno issue is. I we can do is speculate.

[ValhaHazred]

I wasnt argueing but trying to understand by thinking of an example.The only thing Id say about all this is what vision does digital extreme have for the warframe and whats inside.They mentioned specific genders then they mentioned is up to the player, I dont think they even know at this point lol.

 

Fair enough, just wanted to cover my bases :)

[kardel88]

So, I'm not entirely informed of the mono-tenno or poly-tenno discussion, but; does the it boil down to "Do the mind define the body, or does the body define the mind?" 

 

Forgive me if that sounds like a gross over-simplification or entirely nonsense. I would just like to know more about both sides of the debate.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

So, I'm not entirely informed of the mono-tenno or poly-tenno discussion, but; does the it boil down to "Do the mind define the body, or does the body define the mind?" 

 

Forgive me if that sounds like a gross over-simplification or entirely nonsense. I would just like to know more about both sides of the debate.

 

 

  Poly-Tenno is the idea that you play a host of characters, one for each frame. Mono-Tenno argues that you are a single Tenno that uses multiple frames.

 

  I personally think that Warframe is some mix of both, but I lean toward (aka champion) Mono-Tenno. Reasons for their being a single Tenno is that the Mastery Rank, Affinity, and Focus System all lend to a definition of a singular character. However, their are DE quotes that indicate that the multiple frames have Tenno in them. So, some form of both Mono and Poly Tenno is the solution, in my mind. I like remote controlling Tenno clones, or at least a TennoPrime avatar, perhaps still in the void that normal Tenno bond with. Could be any number of things, but I am becoming convinced that neither by itself can adequately explain the player relationship to the character.

[-skimmer-]

Personaly I think that the recent transcedence of Vor into pure energy that just switches between his clones is a huge setup for when they release a lore about what tenno trully are. I mean, we know that tenno were born when they were exposed to the void and survived it somehow. Well guess what? Vor did just that, got shiny new powers and I would guess he basically became a grineer tenno. Considering his backstory of reverse engineering warframes and making it work with grineer tech(Seer lore) I would say it only fits him.

 

Now using the quote from arid fear that OP used:

 

Every time we tear a Tenno corpse from its metal womb we find nothing to explain their power.

 

 

how crazy would it be if all tenno were also just an energy that serves as a source of power and the "human" bodies were cloned to fit the frame?

[Blatantfool]

See, I'm still gonna have to disagree. I find it more interesting to explore the absolute limits of the human condition. What's so interesting about just another human in a powersuit? Transhumanism is fascinating, that's all I'm saying.

 

 That's fine. I can't possibly expect to push my own Sci-Fi preference on you as if I'm the authority.

 

 For me the idea that Tenno are still very human in Form underneath is neat. They're likely mutated and it wouldn't even be too crazy to say they're in poor shape without the aide of their suit - but I still enjoy when that connection is still there.

 

 For me the Tenno are mass produced Soldiers. Created when the Orokin learned they could fling people unprotected into the void and turn any survivors into demigods. Why are there so many Excalibur? Extensive and masterful cloning. Cloning developed specifically for the Tenno. A new, ready to fight Soldier is out the oven in three days. The hardest part of making a Tenno is having the right parts for the suit.

 

 This appeals to me. To me it shapes the Tenno up as characters without it being necessary for them to suddenly show more character as individuals.

 

 But again, I can't stress enough - That's just the kind of stuff I like to read or watch. It's all just personal preference.

 

Right I specifically remember that comment, I am tempted to say Steve said the frame had a certain gender, not the Tenno, and the reason not to have gender swaps was more to keep a consistent character to the frames. The elegance of nyx might be lost on the male version, as a quick example. I'll dig around for that comment because I'm that bored right now and we'll see.

 

 I think it is fair of you to argue that. I agree. It isn't enough on it's own to give this question a specific answer.

 

So, I'm not entirely informed of the mono-tenno or poly-tenno discussion, but; does the it boil down to "Do the mind define the body, or does the body define the mind?" 

 

Forgive me if that sounds like a gross over-simplification or entirely nonsense. I would just like to know more about both sides of the debate.

 

 At it's most basic level the question is:

 

 Are you a single spirit inhabiting multiple Forms (The different Frames) or are you playing Individual character each wearing their own Frame?

 

  This is one of the weird grey areas DE has managed to either intentionally or accidentally (could be either) avoid.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Personaly I think that the recent transcedence of Vor into pure energy that just switches between his clones is a huge setup for when they release a lore about what tenno trully are. I mean, we know that tenno were born when they were exposed to the void and survived it somehow. Well guess what? Vor did just that, got shiny new powers and I would guess he basically became a grineer tenno. Considering his backstory of reverse engineering warframes and making it work with grineer tech(Seer lore) I would say it only fits him.

 

Now using the quote from arid fear that OP used:

 

 

 

how crazy would it be if all tenno were also just an energy that serves as a source of power and the "human" bodies were cloned to fit the frame?

 

 

  The energy void connection, I think could be key to understanding the Tenno-frame connection. Both the way the powers work and possibly the Poly/Mono-Tenno question.

[fatpig84]

I consider every Warframe to be unique individuals.

But they can use Prime armor obviously.

[Legion-Shields]

The easiest answer is DE put almost no forethought into the lore and just created WARFRAME on the sole premise of "Space ninja kewl lolol".

Occam's razor.

[Hayzemet]

iu i dont want to be a transgender murderer, thats just sick. lol

 

Now on a more serious note, I think that the reason they declined to do a male-female version of each suit is that one of, each warframe being a given character, including the tenno, it would be quite stupid that you have to respect your suit gender, they have no intelligence they are exo suits, Why manipulate my gender rather than building a suit that fits me correctly. Logic goes polhy-tenno way ...

 

 

And to all those guys who think tenno are remote controlled proxys or the fact that you are a spirit, that is wrong, go to the faction info tab on warframe page, they are - suits- suits go into people not  into weird stuff...

Edited June 21, 2014 by Hayzemet

[Legion-Shields]

[citation needed] No, for real, show me where that happened. "One of the streams" is not a valid answer, either. Also where do all the people come from to wear my warframes immediately after they're built? Tenno aren't a crafting component in the suits after all. I really dislike the poly tenno thing. It makes me feel like I am not taking the role of a space ninja, but instead playing space karl marx coordinating an ever increasing amount of space communists who all have the same clan, the same name, the same XP, the same weapons, and the same pools of currency. All of these belong to 20 some people who decided they can run around in my warframes without my permission. I don't even know who these people are, because they certainly aren't me, right? There's only one of me.So, yeah, that's me being dramatic, but, that's how I see it.

this is a very appealing perspective. My tenno are now space communists. Thank you.

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

I prefer the simplest answer, as it's the most plausible; many Tenno control many Warframes, and each Warframe is a model, not a particular Tenno or callsign.

Edited June 21, 2014 by (PS4)Hooligantuan

[Blatantfool]

  The energy void connection, I think could be key to understanding the Tenno-frame connection. Both the way the powers work and possibly the Poly/Mono-Tenno question.

 

 Though it is important to note one of the few consistent pieces of information we have to work with is the knowledge that there IS a body inside the suit. We don't know what state of mutation it is in - if any - but multiple times over the course of Warframe's lifespan that's shown up as a reoccurring thing.

 

 Regardless of whether it turns out to Mono/Poly take on this is true I feel like that'll probably remain a thing as well. Whatever the Tenno are they aren't purely energy and the Warfames are definitely suits - not cybernetic dolls.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I consider every Warframe to be unique individuals.

But they can use Prime armor obviously.

 

 

  That great and all. You and Blatantfool, and the zillions of others who feel the same way are entitled to do so. But, do you having anything to add that might point to one way or the other? It isn't particularly interesting to hear everyones preference, I am curious as to what is the likely answer.

 

iu i dont want to be a transgender murderer, thats just sick. lol

 

Now on a more serious note, I think that the reason they declined to do a male-female version of each suit is that one of, each warframe being a given character, including the tenno, it would be quite stupid that you have to respect your suit gender, they have no intelligence they are exo suits, Why manipulate my gender rather than building a suit that fits me correctly. Logic goes polhy-tenno way ...

 

  Any sicker than being a gender norm murderer?

 

The easiest answer is DE put almost no forethought into the lore and just created WARFRAME on the sole premise of "Space ninja kewl lolol".

Occam's razor.

 

  Naturally, that could be the answer. But watching the devstream, like the one I linked, it seems like DE has given this a lot of thought. I don't think they know how to approach it because they want to keep the game accessible and have concerns. Just read some of the reactions to the idea of being a transhuman being and you get the idea.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

 Though it is important to note one of the few consistent pieces of information we have to work with is the knowledge that there IS a body inside the suit. We don't know what state of mutation it is in - if any - but multiple times over the course of Warframe's lifespan that's shown up as a reoccurring thing.

 

 Regardless of whether it turns out to Mono/Poly take on this is true I feel like that'll probably remain a thing as well. Whatever the Tenno are they aren't purely energy and the Warfames are definitely suits - not cybernetic dolls.

 

 

  That is why I now subscribe to a mixed theory of Poly/Mono-Tenno. [DE]Steve said that their is a Tenno in the suit, and that the Warframes are suits, but evades the issue on how that relates to the Focus System, Affinity, and Mastery Rank, where the language changes to a more singular subject. There could be any number of ways that their is a singular master subject that controls or associates with multiple subjects. One extreme or the other, however seems to break down when examine all the lore and mechanics together.