Is The Idea Of Mono-Tenno And Poly-Tenno More Obscure Than Ever?

[Legion-Shields]

I respect peoples opinions, but I find it boring to force social norms of today onto something that is affected by technology that alters the definitions of what it means to be human. Warframes art and design is magnificently unconventional, why should the character narrative be the same bland, and frankly unlikely sci-fi trope, recycled from romantic fiction. Why bother even having it set in the future and space if its basically going to be a conventional action adventure romance story? 

 

 I post these citation to suggest, my evolving theory that it is both a MonoTenno and PolyTenno combination that perhaps best explains the nature of the Tenno and the frames.

 

DevStream 25 at about minute 34 [DE]Steve says, the Tenno was human and a Tenno in the Warframe. That could mean that they aren't remote controlled, but I still hypothesis that a Tenno clone is built for the purpose of inhabiting the frame remotely. The Tenno clone is made when the frame is constructed. Its that or a single Tenno's body is morphed when putting on the suit, assuming that they aren't remote controlled. But, Steve definitely stated you are playing a singe Tenno. 

[DE]Steve, also said that he is intentionally keeping it vague as to keep the game accessible to as many people and cultures as possible. I read that as, he doesn't want to explicitly say that you play a character that potentially gender swaps. I find that funny because, even if you play many Tenno, you the player, immerse in the role of the opposite sex, unless you forgo using those frames.

https://www.youtube....h?v=CJbgkl1OnP0

 

DevStream 22 at about 17 minutes in, 17:45 is about where he says it, is where he refers to the player as, "What you are, your Tenno." Now, I agree this still leaves room for interpretation, but I find it strong enough to leave room for my hypothesis. And that hypothesis would help answer a lot of confusing issues. If the remote theory is true, then is possible that the void acts as a sort of stream of consciousness to the frame, and the frames are built, custom made to be receivers. Channeling the Tenno, and the power of the void, expressed in the form of the frames archetype, Excalibur, Rhino, Nyx, etc.

https://www.youtube....h?v=CNtzE7BTUV8

 

  I get that the change in perspective, and the social norm violations may be off putting and disruptive to your sense of immersion, but really the effort is worth it. If you think about it, we have been rehashing the same experience over and over, whatever the medium. Just consider the possibility of Warframe's narrative be as bold as its art and design.

I love how the mod's post on the first page has eleven upvotes.

[Blatantfool]

  That great and all. You and Blatantfool, and the zillions of others who feel the same way are entitled to do so. But, do you having anything to add that might point to one way or the other? It isn't particularly interesting to hear everyones preference, I am curious as to what is the likely answer.

 

  I don't think it is possible at this stage to have a definite answer without asking and DE loooooves to just say "Lore soon!" instead.

 

  We don't even have any hard facts that tell us exactly how the Tenno are made. My version of it is just me trying to sloppily tie lore scraps together into something that sounds about right.

 

 

Any sicker than being a gender norm murderer?

 

 I suppose it leaves your victim with at least one more question then usual. But really, no. No it isn't.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

-Comment Moderated-

 

  See, I wonder if this is what DE is trying to avoid. Is this really what is bothering most people? The science doesn't support your arbitrary moral statement about gender identification. It is precisely what is interesting about future science fiction setting and technology, to think about social/gender norms and how they are effected by change. I don't exactly blame DE for not wanting to be the ones to confront everyones ignorance and fears about exploring post/trans human topics.

[Blatantfool]

I love how the mod's post on the first page has eleven upvotes.

 

 I think I could have made a comment about butts and I probably would have gotten roughly the same amount of upvotes.

 

  See, I wonder if this is what DE is trying to avoid. Is this really what is bothering most people? The science doesn't support your arbitrary moral statement about gender identification. It is precisely what is interesting about future science fiction setting and technology, to think about social/gender norms and how they are effected by change. I don't exactly blame DE for not wanting to be the ones to confront everyones ignorance and fears about exploring post/trans human topics.

 

 I don't think it is important. Regardless of the route they take it as long as it is a route they're confident in then I'm gonna treat it like the right way to go.

 

 I'm definitely biased in favor of the plot featuring tropes and themes I like a whole lot but I'm open to whatever. 

 

Edit: I think I'm going to do something about that stupid post.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Blatantfool

[ValhaHazred]

Edit: I think I'm going to do something about that stupid post.

 

Thanks. That was immensely hurtful.

[Blatantfool]

Thanks. That was immensely hurtful.

 

 Yeah, well, I'd very much appreciate that response I saw from you just now not be a habit. I'm cool with being lenient this time but c'mon man. You've been here with us a long time. You know the rules.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

 I think I could have made a comment about butts and I probably would have gotten roughly the same amount of upvotes.

 

 

 I don't think it is important. Regardless of the route they take it as long as it is a route they're confident in then I'm gonna treat it like the right way to go.

 

 I'm definitely biased in favor of the plot featuring tropes and themes I like a whole lot but I'm open to whatever. 

 

Edit: I think I'm going to do something about that stupid post.

 

  This I can respect.

[ValhaHazred]

 Yeah, well, I'd very much appreciate that response I saw from you just now not be a habit. I'm cool with being lenient this time but c'mon man. You've been here with us a long time. You know the rules.

 

You're right, sorry. That comment just hurt like crazy. If anything like that pops up again I'll remember to report first, rage later.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

 

And to all those guys who think tenno are remote controlled proxys or the fact that you are a spirit, that is wrong, go to the faction info tab on warframe page, they are - suits- suits go into people not  into weird stuff...

 

  See, your not paying attention. Frames as proxies is just a possible solution. It is well documented that they are suits and that there is a Tenno wearing them. It isn't clear what the relation is between mechanics like Focus/Master Rank/Affinity, and DE's switching to singular subject about the player and Tenno when discussing those mechanics. So, their is likely something going on that effects the relation between the player and the Tenno. Weather it is a single shapeshifting Tenno, or a Master Tenno and its team, who knows, That is what we are speculating about.

  If this messes with your immersion, cool, I get that. If it tweaks you because your can't wrap your head around being that exist outside todays social norms, then fine, that is your bag.

 

  Oh, and as far as, "all those guys who think [T]enno are remote controlled proxys." It mostly just me. Its very lonely here.

Edited June 21, 2014 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[Chacalblack]

maybe, theTennos are gay Transgenders ... jajajajajaja

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

maybe, theTennos are gay Transgenders ... jajajajajaja

 

  You know, I was maybe foolish to think that games where the medium to explore interesting and different science fiction topics.

[ValhaHazred]

    Oh, and as far as, "all those guys who think [T]enno are remote controlled proxys." It mostly just me. Its very lonely here.

 

I don't see it as that unlikely. I'd definitely put that theory above lot's-of-separate-people.

 

 

maybe, theTennos are gay Transgenders ... jajajajajaja

 

A) So what if they are? But then Transgender is one to another, constant switching without settling would be genderqueer.

B) Gay and Trans are different things. They could also be asexual or straight.

Edited June 21, 2014 by ValhaHazred

[Hayzemet]

Ohh guys, im really sorry about that post, I apologize if I offended anyone, not my intention, it was not very, smart nor respectful or adecuate  from my part. I feel bad sorry agn.

 

Now back on track, I think that the devs are even thinking on frames as a single entity case, due to Valkyr experience, I always wondered if they treated her as a character or otherwise Alad V should've abducted a whole bunch of Valkyrs. So that is what convinces me the most about the poly-tenno

Edited June 21, 2014 by Hayzemet

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Now back on track, I think that the devs are even thinking on frames as a single entity case, due to Valkyr experience, I always wondered if they treated her as a character or otherwise Alad V should've abducted a whole bunch of Valkyrs. So that is what convinces me the most about the poly-tenno

 

  I am not positive, because Valkyr gives me a headache, but I think the idea is that Valykr was a lost frame design, that Alad V got his hands on and turned into the current Valkr we now know. That is why all constructed Valkyrs are like the one that Alad V messed with. It does mean an original and Prime version are either unlikely, or will be totally unique and different frames. Complicated. 

  However, it also doesn't serve as a smoking gun.

[ValhaHazred]

The Valkyr Codex entry says the "Original Valkyr" was caught by Alad V. This implies there are many.

 

I have a theory that the Warframes themselves are adaptive and capable of spontaneously altering themselves under special sircumstances. When the Tenno Alad caught went nuts, the torn and plundered Frame mutated to match them.

 

The other Tenno saw value in the rage warped Frame's new Void Skills and copied it.

[FalsePride]

i dont believe the poly tenno theory for a few main reasons.

 

1. this event. the "stink" stays with you no matter what your frame. so unless ur tennos get hot and heavy on each other. i vote one person.

 

2. many if not all the frames are materialzed base off mythological/ idealogical/ theoretcial things, them being in the shape of a man or woman could just show the respect and honor they hold for each one, going into battle weilding this honor. i dont think just cause its in a different shape  means it HAS to be mulptiple people.

 

3. u build the frames as suits. true they dont say another tenno comes along and takes a ride in it. but truthfuly they haven't said either way.

 

4.You start of with 1 of 3 frames, and then can immediately run with another frame without even so much as completing one mission. now where are u going to find another tenno just willing to join u that fast after near death?

 

5. and finally mastery rank requirements. why would u need a mastery rank to have a rhino, unless "he" thinks your so beneath him he wont even wear the suit u made "him". more likely u havent had enough discipline to control its power yet.

 

i also dont believe in possesion theories, but transferable consciousness its a more feasible perspective, even tho i dont like the idea of comatose bodies laying around. and remote controlled? what kinda ninja is too scared to go out there on there own, not one ide like to be.

Edited June 21, 2014 by FalsePride

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

The Valkyr Codex entry says the "Original Valkyr" was caught by Alad V. This implies there are many.

 

I have a theory that the Warframes themselves are adaptive and capable of spontaneously altering themselves under special sircumstances. When the Tenno Alad caught went nuts, the torn and plundered Frame mutated to match them.

 

The other Tenno saw value in the rage warped Frame's new Void Skills and copied it.

 

  Possibly. I don't think that just because the original Valkyr was captured means that many more where out in the wild. Most Tenno are released from Cryo without frames. In fact the only frame I can remember seeing that was unfrozen in a suit was an Excalibur in the cutscene where Captain Vor breaks in. This is another confusing point of interest. Point is, though, that Valkyr possibly wasn't a wide spread frame, but the original was discovered before the Lotus and Tenno could get to it and disseminate its design before Alad V interfered with it. Hence, why we have a modified Valkyr to base our designs from.

Edited June 21, 2014 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

i dont believe the poly tenno theory for a few main reasons.

 

1. this event. the "stink" stays with you no matter what your frame. so unless ur tennos get hot and heavy on each other. i vote one person.

 

2. many if not all the frames are materialzed base off mythological/ idealogical/ theoretcial things, them being in the shape of a man or woman could just show the respect and honor they hold for each one, going into battle weilding this honor. i dont think just cause its in a different shape  means it HAS to be mulptiple people.

 

3. u build the frames as suits. true they dont say another tenno comes along and takes a ride in it. but truthfuly they haven't said either way.

 

4.You start of with 1 of 3 frames, and then can immediately run with another frame without even so much as completing one mission. now where are u going to find another tenno just willing to join u that fast after near death?

 

5. and finally mastery rank requirements. why would u need a mastery rank to have a rhino, unless "he" thinks your so beneath him he wont even wear the suit u made "him". more likely u havent had enough discipline to control its power yet.

 

i also dont believe in possesion theories, but transferable consciousness its a more feasible perspective, even tho i dont like the idea of comatose bodies laying around. and remote controlled? what kinda ninja is too scared to go out there on there own, not one ide like to be.

 

  1. is a solid point.

 

  2. It is true that the godlike power of the Warframes is often compared to mythological and deific beings. That is a natural comparison when talking about post/trans-human subjects.

 

  3. This is part of what makes me think it is a mix of Mono/Poly-Tenno.

 

  4. Yup, thats a stumper.

 

  5. Mastery Rank and Master Rank Test, Affinity, and Focus System all suggest a single Tenno, at least as part of an explanation.

 

  As for the last point, possession is only a theory if a Prime Tenno is using a supernatural power or if their is some involvement with a Avatar Tenno, in the Void maybe. Consciousness transference, is not much different, just a little more pseudoscientific of an explanation. Remote Control is also a pseudoscientific explanation, but does make me wonder about what is suiting up. If your singular Tenno isn't a shapeshifter, morphing to conform to the body of the frame (Rhino to Nyx for example) then perhaps there are Tenno clones, that are either mindless drones, or could be willing conduits. Don't know, there are many possibilities.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Not really. It's still a placeholder, they just wanted Naked Nick out of there.

 

The easiest answer? Tenno are mild shapeshifters and don't give a crap about biological sex outside of aesthetics.

 

  Clearly before my time. Please post pic of or link to this, Naked Nick. Yes, I am aware of how silly that sounds.

[fatpig84]

  That great and all. You and Blatantfool, and the zillions of others who feel the same way are entitled to do so. But, do you having anything to add that might point to one way or the other? It isn't particularly interesting to hear everyones preference, I am curious as to what is the likely answer.

 

Until DE bothers to explain Warframe lore, don't waste your time creating such thread.

 

 

For now I Just treat every Warframe like every different character from a MOBA.

Each with their own behaviours and unique play style.

[Ja_man]

Could it be that within each frame is a mindless clone or of some sort? and that the player is usinga scifi form of astral projection into the body to experience or even control the person in each warframe? I would like to compare this to the crysis games (mostly crysis 2), where (you) Alcaraz, are put into the nanosuit by the man who wore it in the first game, prophet, who then kills himself. Throughout crysis 2, you can still hear bits of the first prohphet's voice within the suit, acting as a sort of conscience for the alcatraz. during the 3rd game, Prophet takes over your (Alcatraz) body, and in the final Cutscene shows the initial character's body rebuilt somehow from within the suit as he takes off the helmet to reveal his face.

 

I would recommend 3:28 of the Zero punctuation video for possible clarification, if you haven't played the crysis games.

 

transition from crysis 2 to 3 summary. starts at 1:02. (there is explicit language)

 

Back to warframe: what if the player is controlling the various other suits, which each have a different body inside to fit each frame. that way, the frame can die countless times, but be rebuilt by the suit from within and in turn, controlled by the player through some sci fi wizardry.

 

edit: added second video for further cyrisis backstory

Edited June 21, 2014 by Ja_man

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Until DE bothers to explain Warframe lore, don't waste your time creating such thread.

 

 

For now I Just treat every Warframe like every different character from a MOBA.

Each with their own behaviours and unique play style.

 

  This is the forum, a perfect place to speculate. You are welcome to ignore the topic if you like.

 

  Also, I don't play MOBA's. Do you aggregate experience into a pool that is applied to different character in the player account? Because the Mastery Rank applies across all frames, and the upcoming Focus System, so far, has indicated powers that are cross character in nature. What is it that manifest this aggregate of experience and powers? Could be a nebulous player account, and that would be kinda of disappointing, in my opinion.

 

Could it be that within each frame is a mindless clone or of some sort? and that the player is usinga scifi form of astral projection into the body to experience or even control the person in each warframe? I would like to compare this to the crysis games (mostly crysis 2), where (you) Alcaraz, are put into the nanosuit by the man who wore it in the first game, prophet, who then kills himself. Throughout crysis 2, you can still hear bits of the first prohphet's voice within the suit, acting as a sort of conscience for the alcatraz. during the 3rd game, Prophet takes over your (Alcatraz) body, and in the final Cutscene shows the initial character's body rebuilt somehow from within the suit as he takes off the helmet to reveal his face.

 

I would recommend 3:28 of the Zero punctuation video for possible clarification, if you haven't played the crysis games.

 

Back to warframe: what if the player is controlling the various other suits, which each have a different body inside to fit each frame. that way, the frame can die countless times, but be rebuilt by the suit from within and in turn, controlled by the player through some sci fi wizardry.

 

  That, or things like it are often called the remote control, or proxy frame theory.

Edited June 21, 2014 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[RespectTheInternet]

I support the idea that there exist  multiple Tenno. 

When you fight against the Lech Kril, Lotus specifically says something about an "endangered colony" which validates the existence of multiple tenno. (among others in the thread)

 

The suits, however, are another story. My guess is that multiple tenno can each wear a suit, but it's also possible for one tenno to wear multiple suits, but each suit has a personality of its own and preference. Sort of like a pseudo conscious, they're equipped with a highly advanced AI that exhibits limited choice (though we never get to see it).

 

Thus is my theory.

Edited June 21, 2014 by RespectTheInternet

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I support the idea that there exist  multiple Tenno. 

When you fight against the Lech Kril, Lotus specifically says something about an "endangered colony" which validates the existence of multiple tenno. (among others in the thread)

 

The suits, however, are another story. My guess is that multiple tenno can each wear a suit, but it's also possible for one tenno to wear multiple suits, but each suit has a personality of its own and preference. Sort of like a pseudo conscious, they're equipped with a highly advanced AI that exhibits limited choice (though we never get to see it).

 

Thus is my theory.

 

 

  Thats a fine theory. I however question the context that Lech Kril was speaking of, was he instead referring to the Human Colonies that DE has confirmed exist? 

  DE also said the suits have Tenno in them. So, an pseudo-conciousness is still a possibility, but is really just the pseudoscientific filler for the proxy theory. A fine theory, by the way.

[RespectTheInternet]

  Thats a fine theory. I however question the context that Lech Kril was speaking of, was he instead referring to the Human Colonies that DE has confirmed exist? 

  DE also said the suits have Tenno in them. So, an pseudo-conciousness is still a possibility, but is really just the pseudoscientific filler for the proxy theory. A fine theory, by the way.

It supports both theories. (and I think Lotus said "our colony", don't really remember)

 

Each Tenno comes into the game with one suit, and the Suit AI helps the Tenno pilot each different suit crafted by the forge (which can be considered piloting by proxy)

But also supports that each Tenno was in their own suit in the first place.

 

Edit: Just thought of this

 

The AI would also explain the whole "Mastery" Thing each suit has. At level 0 the AI does all the work for you, but as you get used to it, your 'mastery' increases until max, at which point you've literally mastered the use of the suit, and now the AI sits by and does other things, like manage all your mods on the suit (who else is redirecting energy into your shields all the time?)

Edited June 21, 2014 by RespectTheInternet