De = Corpus -Or- Why Intelligent Suggestions Mean Nothing

[MXultra]

Warframe is a product. DE is a business. F2P is a business model.
 

"But why do such long-standing issues go unaddressed? Why is there always some new junk in the market?"

It's pretty simple: Player enjoyment has no tangible meaning to shareholders. The only considerations are the time/money spent to create/fix content and the amount of plat purchases said content generates. You misunderstand the relationship if you think DE has any obligation to listen to the community.

 

"But shouldn't they care about PR?"

 

Fixing long-standing problems isn't likely to make old players go out and buy a bunch of plat. But you know what is going to make a butt-load of plat for DE? All the new players they'll get by launching on Xbox. If you were them, would your priorities be on new content or old content?
 

At this point the routine is to release an update, let the community rage about whatever the new RNG scam is, reap the plat purchases, hotfix marginal issues, and repeat. As long as the portion of the population that is getting burnt out and quitting is less than or equal to the rate of new players joining, they've got no incentive to change this formula.

 

In conclusion: Your gameplay improvements, RNG complaints, frame reworks, and weapons balances mean nothing because there is no profit motive.

Edited June 21, 2014 by MXultra

[grillv20]

Warframe is a product. DE is a business. F2P is a business model.

 

"But why do such long-standing issues go unaddressed? Why is there always some new junk in the market?"

It's pretty simple: Player enjoyment has no tangible meaning to shareholders. The only considerations are the time/money spent to create/fix content and the amount of plat purchases said content generates. You misunderstand the relationship if you think DE has any obligation to listen to the community.

 

"But shouldn't they care about PR?"

 

Fixing long-standing problems isn't likely to make old players go out and buy a bunch of plat. But you know what is going to make a butt-load of plat for DE? All the new players they'll get by launching on Xbox. If you were them, would your priorities be on new content or old content?

 

At this point the routine is to release an update, let the community rage about whatever the new RNG scam is, reap the plat purchases, hotfix marginal issues, and repeat. As long as the portion of the population that is getting burnt out and quitting is less than or equal to the rate of new players joining, they've got no incentive to change this formula.

 

In conclusion: Your gameplay improvements, RNG complaints, frame reworks, and weapons balances meaning nothing because that's not how Scott gets his yacht.

 

 

This is pretty much how I feel at this point. There have been no real core gameplay mechanics added in forever. The last big thing they did was damage 2.0 and now everything is just over-powered and ignored.

[Doughalo2]

sad but true

 

How ever I think the ppl at DE enjoy making a game for others to enjoy

[(PSN)Count_Dante]

Warframe is a product. DE is a business. F2P is a business model.

 

"But why do such long-standing issues go unaddressed? Why is there always some new junk in the market?"

It's pretty simple: Player enjoyment has no tangible meaning to shareholders. The only considerations are the time/money spent to create/fix content and the amount of plat purchases said content generates. You misunderstand the relationship if you think DE has any obligation to listen to the community.

 

"But shouldn't they care about PR?"

 

Fixing long-standing problems isn't likely to make old players go out and buy a bunch of plat. But you know what is going to make a butt-load of plat for DE? All the new players they'll get by launching on Xbox. If you were them, would your priorities be on new content or old content?

 

At this point the routine is to release an update, let the community rage about whatever the new RNG scam is, reap the plat purchases, hotfix marginal issues, and repeat. As long as the portion of the population that is getting burnt out and quitting is less than or equal to the rate of new players joining, they've got no incentive to change this formula.

 

In conclusion: Your gameplay improvements, RNG complaints, frame reworks, and weapons balances meaning nothing because that's not how Scott gets his yacht.

 

If I am to understand then the point of your post is to state that DE is a company that makes a game and to make money?

 

Under redundant, see redundant. 

[VKhaun]

You put it in a very negative light, but you're not wrong.

 

Their ability to make money is almost certainly a factor that they don't openly discuss.

 

I've long suspected they got in big trouble over the ability to rush items, where players were buying BP's and then rushing them (because they already had tons of spare mats) immediately, rather than buying the whole item for much more plat. That's why we got things like clan tech, Oxcium and Argon...

 

But to try and put a positive spin on this, lets remember that the heart of this are some very creative people with a great unique art style who WANT TO MAKE A GREAT GAME. Making money might be the only thing that's important to some of the bean counters, but for the devs I like to think they're here to make a game and the money aspect is about facilitation rather than lining their personal pockets.

[MXultra]

To be sure, there definitely are some talented artists working hard over there.

 

But I don't think I cast it in a particularly negative light, that's the just the current reality of the situation, and that reality is one that most people are going to find negative.

 

If I am to understand then the point of your post is to state that DE is a company that makes a game and to make money?

 

Under redundant, see redundant. 

 

My point was to answer the recurring question "Why is the community being ignored". Under failed to comprehend, see G{#@u@5%!!??!!

[Un1337ninj4]

This is pretty much how I feel at this point. There have been no real core gameplay mechanics added in forever. The last big thing they did was damage 2.0 and now everything is just over-powered and ignored.

I guess melee 2.0 wasn't something they were excited about? Certainly didn't line their pockets now did it? Probably cost quite the penny to get the hours in for those animations that they're now adding into the mods after the fact, surely more than the negligible boost in revenue from the trademarket and stances.

 

And the fact they have demonstrated CONSISTENTLY the devotion poured into this game, this is BETA, and if you try to say otherwise allow me to point to Playerships, Melee 2.0, Damage 2.0, HUD 2.0. Look at this game one year ago. TELL ME IT HASN'T CHANGED. The dev team is on here from 9-7 everyday and overnight on special occasion, you can even check the main forum page and see. Even the topics they post for giggles, during their open hours post a topic in the bug section and wait, sometime within the next hour or so depending on buisness you will likely see a [DE] tag there to take notes and move on.

 

Now look at igp (MechWarrior Online), SOE (PlanetSide 2) or Perfect World (Neverwinter). I certainly don't see these dev teams working anywhere near as effectively with their players.

 

Yep, there are still bugs, but then again, BETA, they fixed the God Ash bug in a timely matter with the event on their plate, the point in putting in new stuff is to keep the vets busy whilst working on the fixes as to keep a few more customers around and keeping the newer players happy as they experience less fiction than the vets themselves (though that's not currently the case with the new player experience, but that's currently a work in progress as you've seen in the devstream).

 

Let us remember, Sheldon wanted to bring back the game he knew Dark Sector could have been.

 

So now that I've rustled my jimmies, calm your $*.

Edited June 21, 2014 by un1337ninj4

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

  This doesn't really make sense. The Warframe F2P model is kinda of unique because it is practically the sole source of money for developing the game, that went public as soon as possible. That means instead of having the funding to remain behind closed development for years at a time, the public gets to enjoy a beta product in all its glory. Also, DE has the pressure to constantly pump out exciting new content, that can distract from doing some basic house keeping. Perhaps, also the developers are interested in making cool stuff, and less focussed, as much as they should be, on doing the house cleaning.

[(PSN)Count_Dante]

To be sure, there definitely are some talented artists working hard over there.

 

But I don't think I cast it in a particularly negative light, that's the just the current reality of the situation, and that reality is one that most people are going to find negative.

 

 

My point was to answer the recurring question "Why is the community being ignored". Under failed to comprehend, see G{#@u@5%!!??!!

 

Ah, i see! So you filled your diapers to make them all poopy and stomp your lil fingers on the keyboard.

 

So i will tell you that your answer is wrong. 

 

The community is being ignored because listening to the community is like listening to the wailing six year old child that cries because he wants another cookie.

 

In exemplifying that point, you have succeed. 

Edited June 21, 2014 by (PS4)Count_Dante

[grillv20]

I guess melee 2.0 wasn't something they were excited about? Certainly didn't line their pockets now did it? Probably cost quite the penny to get the hours in for those animations that they're now adding into the mods after the fact, surely more than the negligible boost in revenue from the trademarket and stances.

 

And the fact they have demonstrated CONSISTENTLY the devotion poured into this game, this is BETA, and if you try to say otherwise allow me to point to Playerships, Melee 2.0, Damage 2.0, HUD 2.0. Look at this game one year ago. TELL ME IT HASN'T CHANGED. The dev team is on here from 9-7 everyday and overnight on special occasion, you can even check the main forum page and see. Even the topics they post for giggles, during their open hours post a topic in the bug section and wait, sometime within the next hour or so depending on buisness you will likely see a [DE] tag there to take notes and move on.

 

Now look at igp (MechWarrior Online), SOE (PlanetSide 2) or Perfect World (Neverwinter). I certainly don't see these dev teams working anywhere near as effectively with their players.

 

Yep, there are still bugs, but then again, BETA, they fixed the God Ash bug in a timely matter with the event on their plate, the point in putting in new stuff is to keep the vets busy whilst working on the fixes as to keep a few more customers around and keeping the newer players happy as they experience less fiction than the vets themselves (though that's not currently the case with the new player experience, but that's currently a work in progress as you've seen in the devstream).

 

Let us remember, Sheldon wanted to bring back the game he knew Dark Sector could have been.

 

So now that I've rustled my jimmies, calm your $*.

 

melee 2.0 didn't actually change anything because nobody uses it. on top of that even if you did want to go "derp derp SWORD ALONE" you cant because there are still enemies flying around and things that are out of reach of melee. period.

Edited June 21, 2014 by grillv20

[MXultra]

un1337ninj4, you're confusing the issue. No one is saying DE has not made any progress in the past year.

 

Clearly they have, I would like to applaud their Art team and their Environment team first and foremost.

 

But you can't use them as human shields to defend repeatedly ignoring the community and implementing horribly annoying monetization strategies.

[Un1337ninj4]

melee 2.0 didn't actually change anything because nobody uses it. on top of that even if you did want to go "derp derp SWORD ALONE" you cant because there are still enemies flying around and things that are out of reach of melee. period.

Alright, you've knocked down 1/9 of my arguments.

 

And that's saying IF I said I never use M2.0, in which case I say I truly do.

In late game? No, that's like saying I use Ember in T4 Def, but I DO use my Ember, and I DO use M2.0 on a regular basis as most of my time is spent helping newbs get past the beginning of the game and even handing out starter packs as I don't have anything left to do even in lategame.

 

To respond to MXultra above me, they've recognized the issues with Argon and the like. even toned down loot tables considerably with the new tier (as always still a work in progress, not that I'm expecting goodies now). What new issues are you having?? 

Edited June 21, 2014 by un1337ninj4

[MXultra]

 

The community is being ignored because listening to the community is like listening to the wailing six year old child that cries because he wants another cookie.

 

In exemplifying that point, you have succeed. 

Yeah blame the community, act like there have been no valid points, it's all just whining and entitlement right?

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

melee 2.0 didn't actually change anything because nobody uses it. on top of that even if you did want to go "derp derp SWORD ALONE" you cant because there are still enemies flying around and things that are out of reach of melee. period.

 

  I melee 2.0 but that is because I haven't reached a point where all I have to do is play endless defense waves into stratospheric levels and expect the game to compensate for unlimited exponential growth. If DE has come up with an alternative to that by the time I have maxed out all the rare cool mods, I'll take a break, maybe pick up a foreign language, go outside, or something.

[(PSN)Count_Dante]

Yeah blame the community, act like there have been no valid points, it's all just whining and entitlement right?

 

Nailed it!

 

I hate to tell you, but it is a business. Dont like the business? Dont contribute to the business. But yes, this, and every community is full of people that care too much about something that is not worthy of care. 

 

Case in point:

 

 

Warframe is a product. DE is a business. F2P is a business model.

 

"But why do such long-standing issues go unaddressed? Why is there always some new junk in the market?"

It's pretty simple: Player enjoyment has no tangible meaning to shareholders. The only considerations are the time/money spent to create/fix content and the amount of plat purchases said content generates. You misunderstand the relationship if you think DE has any obligation to listen to the community.

 

"But shouldn't they care about PR?"

 

Fixing long-standing problems isn't likely to make old players go out and buy a bunch of plat. But you know what is going to make a butt-load of plat for DE? All the new players they'll get by launching on Xbox. If you were them, would your priorities be on new content or old content?

 

At this point the routine is to release an update, let the community rage about whatever the new RNG scam is, reap the plat purchases, hotfix marginal issues, and repeat. As long as the portion of the population that is getting burnt out and quitting is less than or equal to the rate of new players joining, they've got no incentive to change this formula.

 

In conclusion: Your gameplay improvements, RNG complaints, frame reworks, and weapons balances meaning nothing because that's not how Scott gets his yacht.

[Un1337ninj4]

-snip-

I don't think your helping the case any....

[Un1337ninj4]

What money grabs have you most recently experienced? What ails you?

 

Be specific, I wish to fully understand where this notion came from.

Edited June 21, 2014 by un1337ninj4

[DoomFruit]

To respond to MXultra above me, they've recognized the issues with Argon and the like. even toned down loot tables considerably with the new tier (as always still a work in progress, not that I'm expecting goodies now). What new issues are you having?? 

They've recognised argon problems by doing what, exactly? It still decays, so I don't see any improvement.

 

And if you think that loot tables have been toned down considerably, then you have neither read the drop lists nor gone to the void. 2014-06-11: 85 non-Forma duplicate items in 198 total listed drops (84 discrete prime parts). 2014-06-12: 69 non-Forma duplicate items in 177 total listed drops (85 discrete prime parts).

 

This does not count all the worthless crap like void keys, fusion cores and resources in the "reward" tables, nor does it say anything about the vastly inhomogeneous probability distribution for items - giving you 13 boar prime blueprints and zero rhino prime chassis, for instance.

[Un1337ninj4]

As I said, still a work in progress, they discussed how once again they've shot themselves in the foot for the T4 errors and are obviously working to address them as you've seen in the recent stream.

 

They acknowledge the S#&$. But the tables themselves are not half bad. I can see why there'd be frustration from a rare 5 pack of five, but DE still wants it to where prime parts still have value, aka, not every time five minuets rolls around you get a Prime. T1 and the like are addressed accordingly as the rewards scale as the targeted audience is newbs. It's like reading a kids book and expecting a Tom Clancy cliffhanger.

 

Newbs will need those O cells.

Edited June 21, 2014 by un1337ninj4

[Brahmastra]

The best thing is when people actually do some research before they play the game, they only see negative feedback.

And who's gonna play a game with nothing but bad feedback and flame on the forums? People are actually telling others to stay away from Warframe.. how sad is that?

 

They better hurry up and save what's left to save before its too late. It will just look like another money hungry grab.

[kimahn]

i understand the feeling. and the whole shame about talking of pure economic matter do not help.

 

but i think this is much more simpler than that. these products keep DE running. no shareholding, no ferraris.

 

just paying employees and structures, and growing.

 

behind this whole super pro facade and stuff, finally, they re a small studio trying to get to the next gen.

 

 

i hope one day they'll take the time to clarify where they are on this point, but i'm pretty sure they put these grossly inflated price price because they have to, and not because they want to.

[(PSN)Count_Dante]

I don't think your helping the case any....

 

My case?

 

My case is this is just another whining post that has no other point than to *@##$ randomly because a company wants to make money. To validate this thought with placation is just as pointless.

[Un1337ninj4]

My case?

 

My case is this is just another whining post that has no other point than to $#*(@ randomly because a company wants to make money. To validate this thought with placation is just as pointless.

I understand this, truly, but this is a rising trend. I imagine we both parties (being the OP and those against his notion) reside in some form of common sense. It's best to attempt to understand the situation.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

  Iteration is crucial to development of a game. The f2p early development of Warframe compromises this by pushing the need for new content to keep the game fresh for players. If all we got was month after month of tweaks, players would revolt. In the scheme of things, DE has done a good job of balancing the need to push both of these requirements, while having beta product be criticized brutally. As a paying player you do have a right to have your word, but try it as a partner. Put in useful QQ reports and quality suggestions. 

Edited June 21, 2014 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[MXultra]

un1337ninj4, it's an ongoing thing. This business model made DE antagonize the players. Whatever the new content is, they have to put it behind an exremely repetitive and annoying process. The idea is to get enough people to just cave in and buy it.

 

I'm arguing that it doesn't have to be that way.

 

My case?

 

My case is this is just another whining post that has no other point than to $#*(@ randomly because a company wants to make money. To validate this thought with placation is just as pointless.

So why do you care so much? It's clear you support every decision DE has made, but to mindlessly defend a company like it's your momma... are they slipping you plat under the table?

Edited June 21, 2014 by MXultra