"the Sword Alone" Is A Lie!

[blackstraykitten]

thanks DE for telling us that melee only is now a viable game plan with the new melee system
we can now actually wield swords alone and NEVER beat a single flying enemy INCLUDING A NEW ENEMY THAT YOU MADE SURE THAT MELEE ONLY PLAYERS WILL LOSE TO

thanks a lot for saying that combos has uses like making cleave, radial damage, procs that i will never care about because mashing slash button will get my attack multiplier to X3 which pretty much kills anything whith or with out cleave/radial/proc whatsoever

also thanks for making us "make a single step forward" when doing melee strike that is so "single" of a step that it actually looks like rooted to the ground

/end rant/

they look good though.

edit: you should have said that melee 2.0 makes using melee alone a viable game plan SOON

Edited June 21, 2014 by blackstraykitten

[Aeithus]

They're aware of this problem, they stated it in one of their devsteams. In the last one, they said that they know Melee 2.0 isn't perfect, and that they'll keep working on it.

[Bazools]

Wow... chill! The Devs are aware of the issue and will work it out. 

[Rydian]

They haven't even added a "quick fire" button for taking out cameras and stuff when you have your melee weapon out, which was pointed out to them within 24 hours and has been repeated multiple times and even "forwarded" to the team.

[blackstraykitten]

i think they should pause the new content every Wednesday and turn it to new improvement on what we already have Wednesday

[CosyPigeon]

Sorry, Devs are too busy building Kubrows to help you. 'Cause fluffy dogs are more important than core game play mechanics. 

[Psroij]

They're aware of this problem, they stated it in one of their devsteams. In the last one, they said that they know Melee 2.0 isn't perfect, and that they'll keep working on it.

They've said that about a lot of core systems that have received absolutely no meaningful attention or fixes, so if Melee receives more than a slapdash patch to allow a single weapon swipe while jumping it would be the first system to not receive the Soon™ treatment.

[Mak_Gohae]

Wait... so because they adjusted melee to be more fun that now means that everything must revolve around the concept of only playing with melee weapons?

[Acos]

Wait... so because they adjusted melee to be more fun that now means that everything must revolve around the concept of only playing with melee weapons?

 

Seems like an extremely limiting method of approaching game design, doesn't it? 

[DalaiLlama]

"The Sword Alone." has gone the way of "Ninjas Play Free."  A simple marketing gimmick designed to show off a new feature or the game itself without much or any truth nor significance on the game itself.  

 

The melee system as it is now is largely purposeless and a set of nice-looking animation gimmicks, but what I've heard coming from DE is to decrease the length of some combos or make preexisting combos more evident, neither of which seem to solve the problem so long as developer focus is directed to the making of more combos.

 

Time will tell, however.

[blackstraykitten]

Wait... so because they adjusted melee to be more fun that now means that everything must revolve around the concept of only playing with melee weapons?

the system was made not just to make it fun to use

the system was made to make melee on par with other weapon type making it viable to complete mission with just melee weapons like how you do it with your primary or secondary weapons

this is where "the sword alone" tag line came from

making melee only a viable option in completing missions and not just fun to use

if fun to use was the purpose then melee weapons will be again be brought to high level missions but not be used

which was the problem of the first melee system

 

now as stated in the topic the new melee system is broken

and they say they are working on it, just like how they are working on parkour

if they are working on it then why add yet another flying unit?

why keep making broken systems and add game difficulty by exploiting the broken part?

 

•hey man they want the game more challenging

◘oh really? ok then what can they NOT DO?

•they cant reach flying units with melee

◘then lets tell them that melee only load outs will be viable and lets screw them

they know the system is broken so why didnt they add a ground unit instead?

[Mak_Gohae]

the system was made not just to make it fun to use

the system was made to make melee on par with other weapon type making it viable to complete mission with just melee weapons like how you do it with your primary or secondary weapons

this is where "the sword alone" tag line came from

making melee only a viable option in completing missions and not just fun to use

if fun to use was the purpose then melee weapons will be again be brought to high level missions but not be used

which was the problem of the first melee system

 

now as stated in the topic the new melee system is broken

and they say they are working on it, just like how they are working on parkour

if they are working on it then why add yet another flying unit?

why keep making broken systems and add game difficulty by exploiting the broken part?

 

•hey man they want the game more challenging

◘oh really? ok then what can they NOT DO?

•they cant reach flying units with melee

◘then lets tell them that melee only load outs will be viable and lets screw them

they know the system is broken so why didnt they add a ground unit instead?

 

Can you use a shotgun for long range?

When you equip a shotgun as a primary is your secondary also a shotgun type or is it a longer range type weapon?

[Acos]

-snip

 

They mentioned adding in aerial attacks to melee as a response to player concerns with not... being able to fly. You can actually hit flying enemies by the way, it's just that the amount of finesse necessary to do it makes it sort of impractical or at very least very precise. That said; Run, Jump, Crouch (Kick), Melee Attack. You will do a flying spin attack which is capable of hitting airborne enemies. You have to be perfectly parallel to them though, so more often than not you'll still probably miss. 

On the plus side, melee blocking completely negates poison clouds, giving you plenty of time to walk out of them at your leisure. So you have that. 

[ZzVinniezZ]

if only DE add in Ariel attack by Jump + E  combos then it would deal some damage to the flying enemy and replace slam by Jump + Down + E

Edited June 22, 2014 by ZzVinniezZ

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Am I the only person who can hit airborne units with moderately solid reliability or something?  Prediction here, but a standard "air attack" will likely be asininely clunky and entirely useless aside of "go smack that osprey".

 

While The Sword Alone was and still is a stellar name for an update, I'm really wishing they hadn't given the update that name as that's partly the only reason people are coming up with these complaints.  A sword isn't a gun, it's not going to be greatly capable at range.  Currently this game effectively lacks any true ranged units that, through numerous movement or other abilities, keep themselves out at longer ranges from players.  The closest things to that which we do have are the small number of flying (or more appropriately floating) foes.  Using melee adds defensive options that are otherwise inaccessible, however there are offensive drawbacks incurred by utilizing this mode.

 

Melee mode = Primarily defensive, allows stun-locking as well as many guaranteed procs/knockdowns/ragdolls across different weapon types.

Gun mode = Primarily offensive, some weapons are viable at utilizing status builds but generally it's all just stacking higher numbers to kill things.

 

Going either way has its gains and losses.  Melee 2.0 as it stands lacks the necessary fluidity to be on par with guns right now.  We need something like canceling or dashes which can allow a greater freedom of movement, even potentially allowing for combos to be picked up mid-branch after dashing to a new target.  Possibly even giving "grip bonuses" or something to players.  Stuff like drawing a dagger instantly increases movement speed, drawing a hammer makes you immune to knockdown, axes could buff DR, ect.  There are a lot of simple base variables which could be improved on weapon draw which just innately give you an extra oomph to offset your loss of ranged offensive capabilities.

 

Anyways, to un-sidetrack back to air foes;  Most osprey will hover just a few notches above head height.  Every melee weapon (I'm pretty sure) has a swing which can reach them, no fancy jump attack needed.  Just, y'know, align your character so that the arc of your weapon's swing crosses the osprey in question rather than staring straight at them and whiffing.

 

Melee 2.0 needs a good deal of further refinement and some good old fashion balance passes.  However, I personally do not want to see a gimmicky tacked on air attack.

[Viverim]

Not every mele weapon has an overhead reach.  Some have very large arcs, others have little-to-none.

[Hexagoros]

Sorry, Devs are too busy building Kubrows to help you. 'Cause fluffy dogs are more important than core game play mechanics. 

 

This.

 

Seriously, why are kubrows even a thing?

Edited June 22, 2014 by Hexagoros

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Not every mele weapon has an overhead reach.  Some have very large arcs, others have little-to-none.

 

I honestly can't think of a weapon that can't hit osprey from the ground with at least one of their available attacks.  Rather than me going through some long list and trying to sort things out, give an example or something if you wouldn't mind.  It's very possible that I'm forgetting something, especially so with the Ankyros/Furax as the hands only sparring weapons are just not fun for me at all so I have little experience with them.

 

That being said, I'm fairly sure their spin attack is an uppercut that works well versus osprey, so yeah.  What can't hit osprey effectively?

Edited June 22, 2014 by (PS4)Bobtm0

[Viverim]

I don't do pure melee a lot, so I can't cite specifics, however I am pretty sure dagger types don't have a good overhead reach.

 

And even weapons that have an overhead reach may be limited in its strike zone.  Ospreys aren't usually (in my eperience) all on their own, so you would have to take one of these narrow over-reach weapons and get to the Osprey while dealing with the Zerg Swarm/Junn Horde of other Infested swarming you at the same time.

 

Also, trying to take out security cameras with melee is extremely difficult in many cases.  I never go pure melee for this reason.

I'm not really passionate about "the sword alone!" thing.  Just putting my own observations out there.

 

Edit:

 

One exception.  I have used the Glaive as a pure melee mission run... but then, it's got range...

Edited June 22, 2014 by Viverim

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

On daggers both stances, the crappy and horribly poorly designed and slow as molasses Pointed Wind and the fast and well designed Homing Fang, can do swings which have the capability to strike Osprey.  Granted I'm not saying it's really fluid, it's specific strikes in specific combo chains so it lacks fluidity, but generally (Mutalist Osprey break this it seems) flying foes are effectively trash mobs to be dealt with at one's leisure.  They aren't a threat, so just deal with them when the opportunity arises.

 

When the update first dropped I ran melee mode constantly just to get a solid feel for it, in addition to making it my exceptionless goal to obtain every stance and utilize each stance at least once versus lvl 30 enemies.  They aren't notably tough of course, but they do provide a meaningful baseline for usability.  Outside of the Orokin Drones, which are actually bugged and have broken hitboxes, I never have had anytime where I was like "dang, I absolutely can't kill that foe with melee".  Of course that doesn't apply to bosses, so that's not something I'll even try arguing against.  I always brought guns though, because I see no point in not equipping guns.  Didn't have to use them, but the option was always there.

 

There's still a good ways to go till I'd personally consider running Melee only "viable", but that isn't due to an inability to strike flying foes by any stretch.

 

As far as cameras are concerned, wall attack baby.  It's a bit odd to get used to but they work surprisingly well since cameras are always mounted... well on a wall.  I'm not saying they're fluid, because they're about as fluid at a pile of gravel and maple syrup, but they get the job done.

[Viverim]

Both stances, of which I have exactly... none!

 

This is another problem with the Melee 2.0 update.  Stances are drops that you don't really know where or how to find (and it's just my opinion, but if I have to go outside of the game to find the information, then this is poor design).  I think I might, maybe have like, a third of the stances?  Maybe?  No sparring, no daggers, no polearms, only one for single handed swords, one for hammers, no nikana, etc, etc, etc.

 

Until/unless stance mods are easier to find, I pretty much ignore the new melee system in favor of guns.

 

Poor melee options... no stealth... running around gunning the bad guys down with sheets of lead... exactly how are we supposed to be "ninjas" again...?

[blackstraykitten]

you can zorencopter a drone? awesome
you can wall attack a camera? awesome

ok now lets go back to the issue where working on the melee 2.0 is now at the back of kubrow breeding and exploiting the broken parts of the game as part of the game's challenge

[blackstraykitten]

Can you use a shotgun for long range?

When you equip a shotgun as a primary is your secondary also a shotgun type or is it a longer range type weapon?

what does primary and secondary have to do with the viability of using melee only?

correct it makes melee only not a viable load out

which means the sword alone is not viable, ergo its a lie.

thanks for making my point right on

Edited June 22, 2014 by blackstraykitten

[Mak_Gohae]

what does primary and secondary have to do with the viability of using melee only?

correct it makes melee only not a viable load out

which means the sword alone is not viable, ergo its a lie.

thanks for making my point right on

 

All weapons have advantages and disadvantages is the point you missed. 

You are supposed to use all three to combat the enemy.

Melee being useful to 90% of the enemies in the game does turn anything into lie.

Stop being goofy about the name of an update, the game does not need to be balanced around one type of combat.

[Noobstein]

Next thing you know they'll be asking for sniper swords, rifle swords, shotgun swords and akogris prime-vandal-wraith swords.

On topic: a sword is... a sword. It's not meant to "shoot" things in mid air.