Alad V, Tyl Regor, And The Infested

[Casardis]

TL;DR: Read the conclusion at the end, but don't expect a satisfactory summary.

Note: "Grineer race" is used for convenience sake. I don't know if I can call that a race or not in the technical terms.

 

With recent events concerning Alad V and what changes DE brought to him, as well as what he brought to himself, it kept making me think of something related to the Grineer and Tyl Regor. I'm not asking for changes, but rather just discussing the subject.

 

I really love what DE's doing with the infested right now, having them evolved in a way we haven't seen as explicitly before (affecting non-organics to the point of making them "alive"). However, in terms of lore, I did ask myself a few things. It's not that I'm against what they did to Alad V necessarily (though I believe he could have been a good recurring villain without having to "evolve" in this way), but rather how I saw this plotline as a potential one, maybe more fitting one, for the Grineer instead, more specifically Tyl Regor.

 

Now let's compare Alad V and Tyl Regor in terms of the infested plotline, with what we (might) know about them.

 

Alad V

- Just like any "great" Corpus, his main goal is profit over all things, finding new ways to make their techs better (and therefore more money if they could sell the new tech)

- Though he was dissecting Warframes, it was mainly to understand the Warframe itself. He never showed interest in biotics.

- He used the infested once, but only like "bombs" by throwing infested cargos at their enemy Corpus ship, probably found from infested sources around Jupiter (since it was an infested node at first). It was never foreshadowed that he was studying them, and even less that he would use it on himself.

- The only logical explanation that I can find is that all his failure lead to desperation and madness, so after his "death" by the Tenno and his resurrection by the infested, he's sure they are the next step in evolution (I don't think it was ever suggested/foreshadowed that Alad V was trying to find a way to bring their race in the next step of evolution though)

- As a result, in a way we can sympathize with Alad, but at the same time, we can agree he really asked for it

- The infested plotline doesn't really add depth to the Corpus in a way, and only so much for Alad himself, since his goal seems to be nothing but revenge.

 

 

Tyl Regor

- Tyl Regor's been studying biotics all his life, so right from the start, we know he has a great interest in it, due to his main objective of saving the Grineer race from inevitable genetic deterioration

- His methods lack ethics, so it could mean that he went a lot of ways with his research in biotics. It won't be far-fetched to think that he studied the infested as well.

- As far as we know, he's the only leading Grineer figure that tries to find a way to stop the Grineer gene deterioration, someone who's trying to move their race forward through great effort.

- Even Lotus acknowledges his genius, so it wouldn't be surprising if he also found a way to make the infestation evolve into affecting more than living organism.

- The infested plotline, if it was applied to Tyl Regor, it would fit his research really well, as well as his objective, but it also adds depth to his character and the Grineer race (more of that on the next point)

 

Through this comparison, even though Alad V can fit into this plotline, it seems that for him, you have to stretch things a bit. Alad V takes quite an angle turn with what he's doing (even though he keeps talking about profit, I don't even see what he's getting at), but for Tyl Regor, it seems it would fit his storyline seamlessly, since it would continue on what his current lore is telling us.

 

 

So why do I bother thinking about this and the Grineer?

 

That's because, for me, the Grineer's lore has shown to have some very "mature content" in terms of story. Mature not in the sense of blood, gore and violence, but the questions of ethics they could bring, and are somewhat bringing already.

 

Despite the Grineer's evil nature, their very being is fated for an end due to their cloning. In a way, the Grineer are almost pitiable, since while they brought it upon themselves due to cloning. They don't seem to know what to do next, so they settle for dominance and destruction. The whole cloning was possibly due to something that happened during the Great Collapse, which makes it possibly another act of desperation.

 

I think most can't see this side of the Grineer, or justify this side as irrelevant, is because of their evil nature and how that's put forward much more (for good reason). Nevertheless, it gives them multiple layers of depth, and Tyl Regor's the one person who can bring that second layer more into play, to show more depth to the Grineer race (as opposed to a single character like Alad V).

 

In a certain sense, this kind of story almost reminds me of the Krogan in Mass Effect. They are considered a "brute race" who loves violence and wage war against each other, which destroyed the ecosystem of their own planet. Eventually, seen as too dangerous, other races developed a bio-weapon called the Genophage to slow down their reproduction. Even so, the Krogan's nature lead them to continue waging war, slowly killing themselves. Only a few Krogan seems to try making a change. Wrex, a character and ally from Mass Effect, shows genuine concern about the fate of their species, and hearing this old veteran "brute" talking about such a serious issue, brings you to sympathize with him and support him.

 

 

Tyl Regor as a symbol and martyr to the Grineer

 

Currently, he may be a comedic placeholder in terms of character dialogues and in-game model, but his "lore-character" actually has one of the most serious and "mature" lore/backstory revolving around him. His very goal has to do with that "second layer" I'm talking about, and his interests goes over himself and that of the usual Grineer (who simply wants straight-forward dominance and power). Therefore, Tyl Regor has the potential to bring the "tragic" side of the Grineer to the players, showing more depth in story than "that evil guy we must kill." He had the potential to be the Wrex of the Grineer, and possibly still does.

 

In fact, Tyl Regor could be a "tragic" character himself. We could have had some kind of event where it involves stopping Tyl Regor's advancements due to something new he discovered in his research (similar to stopping Hek from using Cicero toxin). After the event, ruining his plans, the Queens may get angry at him by pushing him to accelerate his research and restore what he did, which would be impossible since it came from years and years of that.

 

As a result, maybe through foreshadowing, he will proceed with "plan B" which has to do with the infested. This would lead to an outbreak which seemingly kills him, but he will receive the "Wesker treatment" like Alad V did, which would drive him to believe that genetically modified infestation is the key to survival. He will slowly lose his sanity and not see the errors of his ways, since he's already being unethical, which would make him even more of a pitiable character

 

In extension, the Grineer race will also feel pitiable after that, for certain. It will show the length of effort they would take simply to survive, and yet here we are, trying to stop this from happening, which would be akin to participating in a massing genocide. They may be evil, but they are also desperate. Is it in our rights, as Tenno, to destroy them like this? Maybe, but they may still be questions some Tenno will ask themselves.

 

 

Conclusion

 

Though I came to accept that Alad V basically became Wesker/Mezner, I still think Tyl Regor would have been a more fitting individual to have this plotline. The main reasons are how he brings serious and "mature" questions to the table and adds depth to Warframe's lore and story, while Alad V's situation is more about his individual/ego rather than the big picture. Tyl Regor also seems more fitting due to his story and lore that's currently established, making foreshadowing to infestation-as-evolution/survival to be more seamless to his story, while Alad V "shifts" a lot, in my opinion.

 

Share your thoughts, feel free to agree or disagree, and discuss things further.

 

 

EDIT 1

A fellow Tenno, gnat6, suggested below that I should include the fact that Tyl Regor being the main character of the infested evolution plotline would also allow for more infested Grineer units. Currenty, the only one we have is the charger, but if we follow the hypothetical infested Regor story, his modified infestation could create new infested Grineer units, maybe some that are more intelligent than the average infested unit.

 

These new ones would be similar to Tyl Regor: they will keep part of their consciousness, but twisted in a way that they believe they reached evolution. They will be units a bit more intelligent (in combat) than the bum rushing ones we see all the time. It would fit for the lore, and also allow for more infested Grineer variety.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Casardis

[Renegade343]

Yes. We are on the same wavelength about Tyl Regor researching the Infested in order to reverse the Grineer clone deterioration (which is why in one of my suggestions on resource drop relocation, I moved some Infested resources to Neptune). 

 

I would not really call Tyl Regor a tragic character (after all, he should have known the consequences of dealing with Infested research and the heat/consequences it would bring), but I agree on him being a martyr in the eyes of the Grineer. If there was an event with Tyl Regor as the main character and it gives him a small (maybe dying?) speech about his true intentions (maybe a true, yet relatively "naive" reason), then I may change my viewpoint of him. 

[gnat6]

I agree and another thing you did not mention was that there is only one infested grineer unit as opposed to the 5 or 6 corpus units so having tyl regor turn infested would have been a great opportunity to diversify the infested units instead of having them be 70% corpus with a few unidentified units.

[Casardis]

I would not really call Tyl Regor a tragic character (after all, he should have known the consequences of dealing with Infested research and the heat/consequences it would bring), but I agree on him being a martyr in the eyes of the Grineer. If there was an event with Tyl Regor as the main character and it gives him a small (maybe dying?) speech about his true intentions (maybe a true, yet relatively "naive" reason), then I may change my viewpoint of him. 

 

I don't know if tragic is the right word, so I edited to add quotation marks over the word. Even so, I think that the consequences of it, and how it ultimately would affect him (make him believe it's actually the right path and next step for the Grineer) is what makes him "tragic," because we know it's wrong, but stopping him also means stopping his ideals that, if isolated, is actually noble (wanting to save his entire race).

 

But yes, if we knew more about his character and not just the lore given by Lotus, it could help all of that, since right now he's still a joke.

 

 

I agree and another thing you did not mention was that there is only one infested grineer unit as opposed to the 5 or 6 corpus units so having tyl regor turn infested would have been a great opportunity to diversify the infested units instead of having them be 70% corpus with a few unidentified units.

 

I actually intentionally omitted that since I wanted to focus on story, but now that you mention it and I think about it, it can actually fitting. His modified infestation would also create new infested units when affecting Grineer since it changes their nature (and make them "evolve" or at least make them believe they do). This could create more intelligent infested units that are Grineer, rather than having so many "zerglings" swarming all the time. Good catch.

[YashiroSora]

In a sense, I agree with you, but what if Tyl Regor's study in biotics brought about this 'new faction' that DE mentioned?

[CBAROG]

Agreed. But when did DE care about such "minor" details?

Edited June 21, 2014 by CBAROG

[MartianJellyfish]

I don't completely agree with everything, since to me the Grineer are a bit too dramatic in their honour to even mess with the Infestation, unlike Alad.

But I also think that Tyl Regor needs more lore and a rework. As a scientist myself, I kind of want to take his character more seriously, and not just as another unremarkable boss in an unremarkable arena.

[Samoth95]

I think at this point Alad isn't in it anymore for the profit. He was removed from the Corpus Board, so now he's lost everything. His driving force at this point is revenge. He wants to get even with everyone who wronged him - specifically the Corpus Board (for kicking him out and removing the funding for what is more likely than not his life's work) and the Tenno (for causing his removal). He can't exactly fight the Corpus with their own tech; they would obviously have safeguards built in to prevent that sort of thing. And since he's Corpus, he can't exactly turn to the Grineer for help. There's no way the Tenno would ever help him after what he did. So where else would he turn but to the Infested? They have no leader, no organization. They are the easiest to control and manipulate to fit his own ends. If you listen, he sounds like he's preparing to attack the Corpus Board in some way. He's become more of a bioterrorist than anything else.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Samoth95

[Casardis]

I don't completely agree with everything, since to me the Grineer are a bit too dramatic in their honour to even mess with the Infestation, unlike Alad.

 

I believe that's exactly why Tyl Regor might perfect for that; he is already thinking quite differently from what we see of most Grineer because of his goal, and that alone may make him special. When Lotus says that his ways are unethical, it could extend to being unethical even by Grineer standards. In that sense, just like how Ruk believes flesh is flaw, Tyl Regor may think that flesh needs to be "fixed" and that the infestation may be the "cure." The infestation destroys, but also "changes" the genetic structure of the organism they infect, after all. A desperate scientist could potentially ask themselves what would happen if one was to turn this "change" into "repairing."

 

 

In a sense, I agree with you, but what if Tyl Regor's study in biotics brought about this 'new faction' that DE mentioned?

 

Can you clarify? Do you mean in the sense that his research will bear fruit and he gains followers, which creates a new faction? I thought that Vor already fits with that, due to the whole "Vor as a God" religious thing going on right now (Geoff also suggested that in the Design Council in response to the Xbox One Trailer, where the Grineer kneels to him). It's possible that the Oracles of Saturn is related to Vor's new ideals.

 

 

He's become more of a bioterrorist than anything else.

 

Exactly, and that's why I said he pretty much became Wesker, which I'm fine with that. However, that's also why I said this whole plotline focuses mostly on him, which isn't a bad thing in itself, but if this plotline was given to the Grineer, it would focus both on Tyl Regor and the Grineer in general, adding depth to the lore in a bigger scale.

 

 

Agreed. But when did DE care about such "minor" details?

 

If they didn't, they can start doing it now. I think DE does care about minor details, but not on enough aspects of the lore.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Casardis

[YashiroSora]

To answer your curiosity, I meant by what if by his research he creates a different form of humans, or even a new creature, like a new beast of war.

[Renegade343]

To answer your curiosity, I meant by what if by his research he creates a different form of humans, or even a new creature, like a new beast of war.

For my Grineer Eximi rework, I often make the flavour text reference or explicitly state Tyl Regor as the one of the creators of these Eximi (albeit accidentally), just so that players can see his handiwork. 

Edited June 21, 2014 by Renegade343

[Casardis]

To answer your curiosity, I meant by what if by his research he creates a different form of humans, or even a new creature, like a new beast of war.

 

I think creating an entire new faction would be a bit too much with juist that. I think another plot with a new form of creatures is not really needed besides the infested, but rather could be included in some of the existing factions. Like DE said, a new faction needs to be significantly different in many ways, and I feel that making it an extension of the Grineer may not be getting far enough.

 

 

For my Grineer Eximi rework, I often make the flavour text reference or explicitly state Tyl Regor as the one of the creators of these Eximi (albeit accidentally), just so that players can see his handiwork. 

 

Yeah I liked the idea personally. It also makes gameplay and lore intertwined in a way that could make sense.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Casardis

[YashiroSora]

If the creature created is full of scales or feathers its not really quite much an 'extension'. Biotics is also work on animals. What if the creature created is a wildlife of the old and not just some 'plagued undead'? Of course I guess it isn't really a new faction, but I guess an interesting enemy.

Edited June 21, 2014 by YashiroSora

[Casardis]

If the creature created is full of scales or feathers its not really quite much an 'extension'. Biotics is also work on animals. What if the creature created is a wildlife of the old and not just some 'plagued undead'? Of course I guess it isn't really a new faction, but I guess an interesting enemy.

 

True true. I think that Uranus could be Tyl Regor's whole lab, and new creatures (neutral like Kubrows and Skates?) would attack players and Grineer in some areas, or only if some of the lab tanks are broken, or multiple panels are hacked to release them all (release the Kraken!).

[YashiroSora]

Derp, I think it might be nice for Grineer to control these creatures, like how Corpus have Moas. Also they are already making a kubrow tamer as a grineer unit. Be fun to see more 'wildness'.

[Damuranashi]

Yes.

[Casardis]

Derp, I think it might be nice for Grineer to control these creatures, like how Corpus have Moas. Also they are already making a kubrow tamer as a grineer unit. Be fun to see more 'wildness'.

 

Ah, well I won't be against that either. DE did confirmed the Grineer Beastmaster after all. It wouldn't be far-fetched to think that Regor also breed new creatures to make an army for the Grineer while he's still researching on preventing genetic deterioration.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Casardis