Take Mutalist Ospreys Out Of Infested Missions

[StylishKill]

Bad pathfinding, something to deal with.

 

Giving us something new to think about instead of standing on high ground shooting explosives for 50 waves is definitely a good change.

 

Verdict: No.

Well i dont know what you mean with standing high ground and shoting pentar or angstrum or using stupid nova or ogris to deal with invested? Not realy everyones style. I would rather make that explosive weapons and killstealing nova dissaper from this game together with this drones since i am used to meele fighting and i cant do that anymore. I play this game for over a year now and the last update sucks me so hard i dont know what to do. I tried fighting them on distance but it sucks i pretty much like to use the Paris but it is comepletly useless against this enemie since the hitboxes are S#&$ty as hell and they dodge every single shot only option for me was spraying around with my soma but even then only every 3th shot connected. So i would say take off Pentar,Ogris,Angstrum and Nova from this game along with this drones or at least do something about the big area they spread they vemon farts. I so cant meele now. And thats for you there are pplz out there who enjoy a diffrent playingstyle. Besides if you go on high lvl mission this drons just kill 100 HP from you each second makes even rhino pretty much useless. Not even Oberons Healing skill can keep up with the HP draining this drons make. for 9 seconds u lose like 100-120 hitpoints even with Antidot on your warframe so Hell yes they are overpowered.

[Bernkastal]

Whining hasn't solved world hunger and it won't solve the mutalists in your ODD runs.

Keep the ospreys. Look at hitboxes, damage output and the roving AI, but keep the ospreys.

[vicwarrior]

The idea behind Mutalists is fantastic really, it gives crawlers a reason to exist and makes infested something more than mindless zombies that run at you and can be trivialized by staying out of their reach and shooting AoE at a single thing left to bait he infested (althought for some that might have been the infested's charm).

 

However i do agree that at the actual moment Mutalists are way overpowered, i find them way too common, farting out poison clouds way too large and too often that linger for way too long.

[MeduSalem]

I wouldn't say take them out, but the toxin proc is rather ugly to say at least. Probably worse than the Toxic Ancients were last year before they got nerfed.

 

I don't care about getting to wave 50 in ODD or something, but while joining random teams on the star chart most of the time I ended up having to revive lower ranked people in a 30-40 second pattern because they don't have the endurance mods to survive being ganged by 5 or more of that Ospreys. Especial true in Defense/Survival at a certain point, most of the guys disconnect from the session before wave 5 is completed and even if they don't they will leave in fear at wave 5. That's no fun, rather than frustrating, even for more experienced players like myself.

 

They are no real challenge if you know what you are doing... Just don't melee anymore and keep your distance if you are about to expect those bastards. Keep your firearms loaded and spam your skills. That is if they are actually able to catch them - which I find pretty much near to impossible with World on Fire for example, probably because they move too fast and at irregular patterns for the fire pillars to catch up with them. Stunlocking them with Accelerant works wonders though.

 

They need to be better balanced, especial on lower planets because some of those low level missions feel like doing highlevel no-shield-nightmare missions.

Edited June 21, 2014 by MeduSalem

[DJ_Redwire]

Nothing in there mentions them being difficult, only that they make the game less fun for him and make OD missions take longer.

 

It's like you're not even reading what you're quoting. Literally the first line you quoted...

 

 

... Mutalists single handedly make what was once feasible nearly impossible.

 

If a unit gets stuck on the other end of the map or in the floor - yeah it's annoying, but even with these ospreys that are noticeably buggy and needs some tweaks, they do not prevent you from progressing unless they kill you. Ergo, the OP is therefore having difficulties dealing with these units. They pose an apparent challenge. 

 

Reading comprehension is important.

[Tulzscha]

Thread title edited for clarity and moved to the proper section.

[0zryel]

Infested where pushovers for far too long I am happy they are a real challenge now, I really hope DE continues to do this for the different factions.

 

So, sorry NO, leave it as it is, learn to adapt, mod/gear up properly yourself if you cant do it on skill alone, be a space ninja! XD

Edited June 21, 2014 by 0zryel

[Siekier]

Mutalist Ospreys need to stay.

Because of them infested aren't just a cannon fodder anymore, they can make things quite intense.

 

If you have eyes and you know what you're doing, you can actually avoid their toxin clouds successfully.

I haven't died because of them even once.

Not even once.

 

Keep your eyes open, keep moving and get out of their way.

[Romalic]

they are something infested has needed for a long time, an air unit, but their pathing is terrible atm, they spawn in ceilings and walls on defence maps, sometimes wander around the edge of the map, some defences can really drag when having to look for them

[Verre]

Aww... They made the almost criminally easy ODD mission tough?

 

I'm sorry.

[TheStag]

How about confine them to corpus tile sets and lower the poison cloud dmg, time, and AoE a little bit? Really, previously corpus ospreys in Grineer tile sets is dumb.

[MeduSalem]

How about confine them to corpus tile sets and lower the poison cloud dmg, time, and AoE a little bit? Really, previously corpus ospreys in Grineer tile sets is dumb.

 

Yay... Lets have toxic rollers instead on Grineer Tilesets! :D

[Dawntess]

Can i just say that all i'm reading here is a whole bunch of boohoo and crying?

The game finally becomes a challenge and you poop out like some kind of tool?

 

Sure it should be hidden behind a level in the 20s, but S#&$ son, build and bring some health packs with you if you don't know how to DEAL. i single handedly dealt with the infested in the alert mission, 15 waves of that S#&$e and i found it the most fun i've ever had.

 

How about you pick and chose a tailored build for this scenario for once, Trying your little cookie cutter build in everything is bad practice and makes for a boring way to play this game.

 

Don't even get me started on people that'll say "but but.. melee only" because i'll karate chop their &#! in half.

[Acos]

Time to stop relying on ogris/penta to get you through ODD :|

 

I can still hit them with Penta. Just explode it in the air. 

To the topic at hand: while I do want more challenging enemies, I do not want more challenging enemies that are common. Common enemies should be problematic when a single challenging entity (such as the upcoming juggernaut) is on the field. Make their hitboxes bigger, make them a bit noiser or more obvious, and reduce the toxic proc chance and you'll have a pretty good common enemy that still performs the role of creating areas of denial. 

While their certainly is a bit of lrn2play associated with the buggers, I would generally agree that a single common enemy should not be able to suddenly drop you to 0 HP. Scale back the proc chance and I think you'd have a nice balanced common enemy that will mesh nicely with future infested enemies. 

They aren't that bad if you have a way to actively recover HP, but newer-moderate players who have not farmed every mod in existence are probably finding them excessively difficult because they aren't prepared to recover from hits to health. Life Strike, Equilibrium, Team Health Restore and that's kind of it. If you are going to keep adding toxic enemies we need better recovery options to deal with them. 

 

Edited June 22, 2014 by Acos

[DaftMeat]

Oh hey, you didn't want all that Health, did you?

[Joyfulmama]

Well i dont know what you mean with standing high ground and shoting pentar or angstrum or using stupid nova or ogris to deal with invested? Not realy everyones style. I would rather make that explosive weapons and killstealing nova dissaper from this game together with this drones since i am used to meele fighting and i cant do that anymore. I play this game for over a year now and the last update sucks me so hard i dont know what to do. I tried fighting them on distance but it sucks i pretty much like to use the Paris but it is comepletly useless against this enemie since the hitboxes are S#&$ty as hell and they dodge every single shot only option for me was spraying around with my soma but even then only every 3th shot connected. So i would say take off Pentar,Ogris,Angstrum and Nova from this game along with this drones or at least do something about the big area they spread they vemon farts. I so cant meele now. And thats for you there are pplz out there who enjoy a diffrent playingstyle. Besides if you go on high lvl mission this drons just kill 100 HP from you each second makes even rhino pretty much useless. Not even Oberons Healing skill can keep up with the HP draining this drons make. for 9 seconds u lose like 100-120 hitpoints even with Antidot on your warframe so Hell yes they are overpowered.

 

I am talking about the playstyle you need to adopt to reach high waves in ODD, which the OP was talking about.

 

Hmm. I think you ought to say that on a different thread. This one is about wholeheartedly removing mutalist ospreys. What I am saying is that it is perfectly good to add aerial units to infested faction. What you are talking about is how difficult they are to hit.

 

Basically you want to suggest a balance to mutalist ospreys, don't tell me that, tell the community that and see what they think. In my opinion I too feel that their hitboxes are small.

[Taranis49]

And they should also implement infested that shoot darts of poison or something.

 

BUT... right now those mutalist ospry arent well balanced, they provoke, way way way too much damage, insta-kills are happening everywhere.

And, they should rework the way they move, its too frenetic, too random, hard to aim, hard to scan, no other osprey in the game moves like this one.

 

They're called Lobber crawlers - only problem is that they're so stupidly rare most people almost consider them to be the Sasquatch of Warframe (to say nothing of the Eximus variant). :-P Just make them more common. Hell, allow them to shoot while being carried by the Ospreys (if they can't already) so that the whole "carries crawlers in combat" bit is something other than an irrelevant gimmick. For all of the talk about new enemies "synergizing" it's still not the case - the crawlers are simply supplanted by the Osprey rather than supported by it; they're just as irrelevant as they were beforehand.

 

Anyhoo... while I personally haven't had too many problems with the new Ospreys since I main a Rhino (don't judge me!), fact is they are kinda broken. It can basically be impossible to avoid the clouds depending on either a.) the number of Ospreys b.) the tileset, particularly in confined spaces like the new Infested ship tileset or the old Corpus ship tileset, and doubly so if they're camping an elevator.

 

Long and short, they suffer from much the same issues Magnetic Eximi do - i.e. it's not actually challenge if player skill doesn't make a difference.

 

It doesn't help that toxic damage is in and of itself kinda broken and the opposite of fun, since it ignores a major component of the player's defenses. It's not an engaging challenge that you overcome, at the best of times, it's just another gear-check like Prosecutors.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Taranis49

[DaftMeat]

Long and short, they suffer from much the same issues Magnetic Eximi do - i.e. it's not actually challenge if player skill doesn't make a difference.

 

+1

[Aggh]

I can still hit them with Penta. Just explode it in the air. 

To the topic at hand: while I do want more challenging enemies, I do not want more challenging enemies that are common. Common enemies should be problematic when a single challenging entity (such as the upcoming juggernaut) is on the field. Make their hitboxes bigger, make them a bit noiser or more obvious, and reduce the toxic proc chance and you'll have a pretty good common enemy that still performs the role of creating areas of denial. 

While their certainly is a bit of lrn2play associated with the buggers, I would generally agree that a single common enemy should not be able to suddenly drop you to 0 HP. Scale back the proc chance and I think you'd have a nice balanced common enemy that will mesh nicely with future infested enemies. 

They aren't that bad if you have a way to actively recover HP, but newer-moderate players who have not farmed every mod in existence are probably finding them excessively difficult because they aren't prepared to recover from hits to health. Life Strike, Equilibrium, Team Health Restore and that's kind of it. If you are going to keep adding toxic enemies we need better recovery options to deal with them. 

 

So why exactly do you want their hit boxes larger then?

 

 

They're called Lobber crawlers - only problem is that they're so stupidly rare most people almost consider them to be the Sasquatch of Warframe (to say nothing of the Eximus variant). :-P Just make them more common. Hell, allow them to shoot while being carried by the Ospreys (if they can't already) so that the whole "carries crawlers in combat" bit is something other than an irrelevant gimmick. For all of the talk about new enemies "synergizing" it's still not the case - the crawlers are simply supplanted by the Osprey rather than supported by it; they're just as irrelevant as they were beforehand.

 

Anyhoo... while I personally haven't had too many problems with the new Ospreys since I main a Rhino (don't judge me!), fact is they are kinda broken. It can basically be impossible to avoid the clouds depending on either a.) the number of Ospreys b.) the tileset, particularly in confined spaces like the new Infested ship tileset or the old Corpus ship tileset, and doubly so if they're camping an elevator.

 

Long and short, they suffer from much the same issues Magnetic Eximi do - i.e. it's not actually challenge if player skill doesn't make a difference.

 

It doesn't help that toxic damage is in and of itself kinda broken and the opposite of fun, since it ignores a major component of the player's defenses. It's not an engaging challenge that you overcome, at the best of times, it's just another gear-check like Prosecutors.

All you have to do to avoid taking damage from them is kill them.  They spend most of their time floating in the air doing nothing and they telegraph their toxic attack by swinging back before they charge forward.  They're only a problem if you let them become one.

 

I'm not a big fan of toxic damage either, but I think a lot of people are exaggerating how much of a problem these things are.

 

My problem with them has less to do with how easy they are to deal with and more to do with the massive amount of area denial they can provide, especially if they spawn in numbers.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Aggh

[Renegade343]

So why exactly do you want their hit boxes larger then?

Because apparently a full shotgun blast aimed at the osprey less than 3m away missed (I was using a Strun without +spread mods). All the bullets passed through it and hit the wall behind it.

 

Not to mention rifle bullets also pass through their wings, making them take no damage (which it should).  

[Aggh]

Because apparently a full shotgun blast aimed at the osprey less than 3m away missed (I was using a Strun without +spread mods). All the bullets passed through it and hit the wall behind it.

 

Not to mention rifle bullets also pass through their wings, making them take no damage (which it should).  

Then aim at the body?  They're no harder to hit than corpus osprey and yet I've never seen anyone complain about the hit boxes on them.  I'm hitting them with my dread just fine.  Rifles and shotguns make them even easier to kill.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Aggh

[Stakhanov]

I partially agree here.

 

I feel they have no place in Defence missions, not because of their strength or such (well, partially), but they have the most god-awful pathfinding skills which simply have them making circles and farting insta-death gas everywhere.

 

But even on Wave 5, even maxed out gear that isn't a Rhino get's insta-deathed by this poisonous fart gas, and on Defence missions you don't really have any place to play a rhino, especially if you're solo, you're focused more on Vaubans, Trinities and the like.

 

Also, their hitboxes are screwed.

 

I think they need to fix their core mechanics before we can decide where they need to be placed/removed etc.

[Renegade343]

Then aim at the body?  They're no harder to hit than corpus osprey and yet I've never seen anyone complain about the hit boxes on them.  I'm hitting them with my dread just fine.  Rifles and shotguns make them even easier to kill.

The wings. The hit-box is missing on the wings, which makes shotgun blasts sometimes pass through them without making them take damage. That is different to the normal ospreys, which is weird. 

[Aggh]

I partially agree here.

 

I feel they have no place in Defence missions, not because of their strength or such (well, partially), but they have the most god-awful pathfinding skills which simply have them making circles and farting insta-death gas everywhere.

 

But even on Wave 5, even maxed out gear that isn't a Rhino get's insta-deathed by this poisonous fart gas, and on Defence missions you don't really have any place to play a rhino, especially if you're solo, you're focused more on Vaubans, Trinities and the like.

 

Also, their hitboxes are screwed.

 

I think they need to fix their core mechanics before we can decide where they need to be placed/removed etc.

 

The idea that they suddenly make defense a rhino only game is silly.  Piles of different frames have abilities that can kill them or immobilize them with little effort.

 

 

The wings. The hit-box is missing on the wings, which makes shotgun blasts sometimes pass through them without making them take damage. That is different to the normal ospreys, which is weird. 

Then.aim.at.the.body.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Aggh

[Renegade343]

Then.aim.at.the.body.

In which I also do it, and the bullets sometimes pass through that as well (although not as much as the wings). 

 

Is it really that hard to tweak the hit-box to match the model of the osprey?

Edited June 22, 2014 by Renegade343