Tigris Reload Speed

[SilverHazzes]

If you don´t like using it just don´t use it. You like the aesthetical design but not the function, this isn´t new in warframe or in any game. I know lots of people that like the tigris concept in all its aspects and they use it and like it anyway. So just find you another weapon and not complain about this because you don´t want all semi auto shotguns to be slightly different re-skins of the hek.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Tell me you like long reload speeds. I won't believe anyone, who states that.

 

I like the gun. Otherwise I would not build it up. But I do it because I can work arround it eventually.

[Cwierz]

If you don´t like using it just don´t use it. You like the aesthetical design but not the function, this isn´t new in warframe or in any game. I know lots of people that like the tigris concept in all its aspects and they use it and like it anyway. So just find you another weapon and not complain about this because you don´t want all semi auto shotguns to be slightly different re-skins of the hek.

Um, I do like the gun, but I don't like having to reload for almost 2 full seconds after it takes me less then a second to fire off my clip.

Weapons that have larger clips tend to have larger reloads because they don't have to reload as often. This weapon is up there with the weapons that need to reload the most, and its reload speed is to damn high.

 

The weapon is almost impractical in combat because you spend more time reloading then actually aiming and shooting by a large margin. Also, I fail to see how buffing the reload speed of the weapon would make it similar to the hek at all, it would still have the unique trigger.

 

Also, as Sidestream said, tell me how a long reload makes this weapon any more fun to use, or require a different playstyle. It doesn't, it just makes the weapon bulky and impractical to use. I would like to ,ya know, actually use a fun weapon that isn't impractical to use sometimes.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Tell me you like long reload speeds. I won't believe anyone, who states that.

 

I like the gun. Otherwise I would not build it up. But I do it because I can work arround it eventually.

 

I'm a fan of long reload speeds, when they're warranted.  Most of this games guns seem to have reasonable reload times, with a few outliers that don't make sense.  Like the Vulkar's 4.0 and Supra's 4.2, they should be, in my opinion, 2.1 and 3.0 respectively.

 

Weapons with smaller magazine sizes having reload times around 1-2 seconds is fine by me, with 3 seconds being the top end for large magazine weapons.  The Tigris is meant to be a hard hitting two-shot shotgun who's fire rate holds no bearing on its ability to fire two consecutive shots.  1.8 honestly feels like it's close to the right place for the gun in my opinion, I'd drop 0.3 off of that time at the most personally, leaving it at a base reload time of 1.5.

 

I'd rather see shotguns in general get their damage drop off ranges doubled, with the Hek's being tripled, and the Tigris's being at two and a half times longer than current.  Hek becomes the king of ranged takedowns, Tigris is his little cousin that also packs a powerful two-hit combo, while the Boar Prime is clearly the machine gun of the shotgun world.  Leaving the Strun as the beginner's standard.

[Tarille]

If you don´t like using it just don´t use it.

 

The issue is that I do like the gun.

 

I like the firing mechanism.

 

I like the damage type.

 

I adore the looks.

 

I even like the limited magazine making reloading after every shot mandatory.

 

The issue is that the reloading takes just that bit longer than I feel is acceptable. Having a 1 second base reload time instead of 1.8 wouldn't magically turn the gun into the Hek, but it would considerably increase the flow of using the gun. It would still be reloading more than firing (Since firing takes significantly less than a second - The 2 shots can actually be fired of so fast that it looks and sounds like a single shot), but it wouldn't be obnoxiously longer like it is currently.

[Paradoxbomb]

I recall the reload speed being the number one gripe about the Tigris since day 1 that it came out. When DE finally "buffed" it they just threw on a bit more damage, left the sluggish reload speed as is, and never looked back.

 

And then released the overall superior Drakgoon.

 

So I'm doubtful that DE has any intention of ever improving the utility of the Tigris, but you have my support nonetheless.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[Tar_Spit_Fire]

YES PLS... and no to that vauban guy. these guys just want to say no to everything you made up without a reason...

[SIDESTRE4M]

I'm a fan of long reload speeds, when they're warranted.  Most of this games guns seem to have reasonable reload times, with a few outliers that don't make sense.  Like the Vulkar's 4.0 and Supra's 4.2, they should be, in my opinion, 2.1 and 3.0 respectively.

 

Weapons with smaller magazine sizes having reload times around 1-2 seconds is fine by me, with 3 seconds being the top end for large magazine weapons.  The Tigris is meant to be a hard hitting two-shot shotgun who's fire rate holds no bearing on its ability to fire two consecutive shots.  1.8 honestly feels like it's close to the right place for the gun in my opinion, I'd drop 0.3 off of that time at the most personally, leaving it at a base reload time of 1.5.

 

I'd rather see shotguns in general get their damage drop off ranges doubled, with the Hek's being tripled, and the Tigris's being at two and a half times longer than current.  Hek becomes the king of ranged takedowns, Tigris is his little cousin that also packs a powerful two-hit combo, while the Boar Prime is clearly the machine gun of the shotgun world.  Leaving the Strun as the beginner's standard.

 

Except you mean not so hard hitting because Slash is crap against those units which need hard hitting guns (elementals help though)

And except the existance of Drakgoon which has higher magazine capacity, better damage, more crit... but less status chance.

 

I don't know, maybe it's just me but I still like the idea of lowering reload time for more fun.

 

Edited June 24, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[MirageKnight]

What I feel ultimately kills the Tigris is the need to reload after firing two rounds, an atrociously low pellet count, and a non-intuitive, gimmicky trigger mechanic.

 

And you all think that tweaking reload speed will honestly make the weapon shine?

 

1. I seriously doubt that DE will ever do that after so long.

 

2. Reload speed is the LEAST of the Tigris' problems.

[SIDESTRE4M]

It doesn't have to shine bright, just enough so more people can have fun with it.

[Cwierz]

What I feel ultimately kills the Tigris is the need to reload after firing two rounds, an atrociously low pellet count, and a non-intuitive, gimmicky trigger mechanic.

 

And you all think that tweaking reload speed will honestly make the weapon shine?

 

1. I seriously doubt that DE will ever do that after so long.

 

2. Reload speed is the LEAST of the Tigris' problems.

The pellet count hardly matters actually. Even if it had 8 pellets with the damage spread across it still wouldn't make much of a difference. I actually happen to like the trigger mechanic, and its not really gimmicky. Its a double barreled shotgun, you fire two shots and you can delay the second. Whats so gimmicky about it?

Tweaking the reload won't make it shine, it will make it not feel like garbage.

[VentiGlondi]

If Tactical Pump had a greater bonus that would help a lot

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

I can only quote one person, but this is a two parter.  Everything after the first underscore line is more in reply to SIDESTRE4M rather than the one I did quote.  The second underscore line just branches out into a general point not directed towards anyone at all.

 

YES PLS... and no to that vauban guy. these guys just want to say no to everything you made up without a reason...

 

Yeah, totally no reason.  Nope, not any reasoning at all.  Owait though, why would I post something and suggest alternate buffs to shotguns across the board!  Seriously, rather than bandwagoning thoughtlessly try actually adding something productive beyond a nearly pointless one liner.  I didn't make a longer than one line post for no reason.  While I said no-ish (I clearly wasn't outright against decreasing the reload time, if you read my post) I proposed other things which could be done, like increasing the Tigris's damage appropriately so that it hits hard enough to warrant its magazine limitations.

 

As it stands, Shotguns are inherently a poor weapon class, it's arguable to say which is weaker overall between them and Snipers at this given moment truthfully.  The only reason Snipers get more focus is due to them having another weapon class (Bows) which directly one-up them in their same niche.  Technically speaking, there isn't much else that encroaches upon the realm of the shotguns, so their overall weaknesses somehow just get ignored.

 

Prior to the status nerf which Shotguns received, they were at least monsters at abusing status procs.  Theoretically speaking, if that nerf were reversed and then Shotguns had their damage drop off ranges tweaked, they would all gain a fair bit of viability.

 

From my time spent using the Tigris, I just don't think decreasing its reload time would be a worthwhile buff.  This is why I've suggested other buffs that would be more appropriate, in my opinion.  Expressing different opinions is kind of what proper feedback is about.

 

__________________________

 

As much as I dig the Drakgoon, it doesn't have nothing but strengths.  Unless I'm suddenly daft or things have changed, the Drakgoon's normalized Spread, even at full charge, is greater than the Tigris's.  This can equate to a direct loss in damage per shot due to having some pellets not land upon the target.  It also has a rather slow projectile velocity and a forced delay between every individual shot, cause by the need to charge the gun.  The Drakgoon's uncharged shot is quite literally and totally pointless, no gains to it whatsoever.  If it wasn't for the innate punch through, the Drakgoon would (in my opinion) be a worse gun overall than the Tigris.

 

Both are Slash damage focused, so there's not much to say about that inherently.  Elemental focus has been the name of the game since Damage 2.0 rolled out, so that's not really anything surprising.  While Slash may not be the "best" of the physical damage types, it does have the strongest proc type amongst them without question.

 

Again, I'm not saying that the Tigris is perfectly fine and requires no changes, but I feel that its reload is in a fine place.  Polish what its focus is supposed to be, not just try and weaken its weak point.

_________________________

 

So, in summation what am I getting at here?  Yes, please do buff the Tigris and Shotguns in general while you're at it DE.  However, don't make it some half-rear ended slight change to reload time and call it a day.  Because at the end of that day, the Tigris won't have become any more viable.

 

Focus on meaningful buffs, not something tiny and minor.

Edited June 25, 2014 by (PS4)Bobtm0

[SIDESTRE4M]

Honestly speaking, I think the reload time is a serious flaw and not balancing it out.

You may be right, projectile speed and the needed charge on drakgoon may seem as a drawback. However since you normally don't shoot from a distance with shotguns, the projectile speed is not that important in my opinion.

I'm not that much into shotguns, because I usually prefer accurate semi automatic guns for headshots and flexibility.

However I had lots of fun using the Drakgoon. Not that I'm a scared Tenno to pick a challenge, but the Tigris reload speed seriously killed it for me, because in some areas with scattered enemies, it just sucks to be used. Later on you are just using CC to reload and with two shots, you have to reload very often. So in most cases I just thought damn it, drew my secondary and wrecked havoc.

The Sybaris is interesting, because of its design, the accurate semi-auto hard hitting style and an interesting evenly divided damage stats.

So the reload... at least I have 5 shots to make them count.

The Tigris does have none of that speciality. It's just a flawed shotgun for style, which may appeal to some people who prefer niche weapons to stick out from the masses. I can understand that and making it easier to use will spread its usage.

I don't see that this sort of balancing is needed for this weapon. I could work around it eventually... but for the most part I see myself reloading while another one wipes the rest of a room with one magazin.

We may have come to a point where saying this gun just wouldn't be for me, is probably correct.

[Viverim]

First, as was mentioned, the Tigris was buffed once to increase damage, so if you think it's bad now, you should have seen it when it first came out!  Yikes!!

 

@Bobtm0 - not gonna quote your whole post when I only wanted to address one thing:

On the Drakgoon, you can charge the weapon, however if you aim it you change the spread from wide to narrow, thus concentrating its fire.  It can actually be used for both close and longer ranges.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

I'm generally a major fan of anything semi-automatic or charge based, but something specific about the Tigris just grabbed me by the face and wouldn't let go.  Part of it is just the design style of it aesthetically, which combines with its unique trigger type which I happen to adore and hope to see on more things.  Back before the status nerf it really felt pretty crazy, and that was before even the cicero set came out if memory serves, back when I actually slotted Shotgun Savvy on a build and didn't consider it a "hipster" move.  I shelved the Tigris for the longest time when that happened and only recently picked it back up to be honest.  Still don't have Tactical Pump in my build either, but at the end of the day that's just my own, and obviously odd, opinion.

 

Basically, I'm just seeing the flaws which shotguns have inherently being amplified due to the Tigris's style, rather than the Tigris's style being flawed in and of itself.

 

To pose a different question here to everyone who feels like answering;  What would be a good reload time to give the Tigris, in your opinion, to make it feel appropriately usable without modifying its other stats?

 

@Viverim;  Wait, so aiming down the sight modifies the Drakgoon's Spread?  I honestly never noticed this at all while using the gun.  I was under the impression that the first gun to have any sort of spread/accuracy modification via ADS was the Synapse Phage.  If that's indeed what you're saying then that's just egg on my face for not using the Drakgoon near enough to know that.

 

Edit;  Infested guns are so confusing.

Edited June 25, 2014 by (PS4)Bobtm0

[Viverim]

Really not trying to hi-jack the thread, but yes.  when you start to aim you hear a whirring noise, and the "barrels" slide from a v shape to a forward shape.  The spread alters from wide to narrow.  Plus, on the Drakgoon, the pellets ricochet.

 

Personally I think they should probably up the damage a bit more and lower the reload speed to around 1.5 sec on the Tigris.  Even then, it will be highly questionable against something like the Infested, which give you no time to reload before they are on you.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Isn't that the charge mechanic you describe?

[R3DBelmont456]

Yes, I really REALLY wait either higher crit chance, more pellets and/or quicker reload speeds, I just wanna have fun with my baby man like this: http://youtu.be/xlZQnenQJTw?t=2m19s

[SilverHazzes]

Serously, I don´t think a 1 sec or 1.5 sec reload speed will make the difference in front a bunch of enemies because simply you have two rounds, that easy.A change in reload speed will only change it a bit but you still need to reload after two shots so if you figure out the situations you end in a bit different position.

The tigris won´t be a great shotgun for crowd control by itself, it requires modding and sinergizing with your warframe and gear to do that, and that´s not something bad because that´s what makes us capable to release the full potential of a weapon, a better playstyle isn´t all in stats.

For example when you use loki´s decoy and teleport for better sniping spots, or radial disarm to detroy the enemies with your melee, excalibur radial blind, vauban´s abbilities, ember accelerant...

Sometimes we forget about the fact that in warframe you are using more gear than just your primarie or secondarie floating around and killing enemies.

[RancidTurnip1603]

Tigris is something I've always wanted to forma just because it's so unique, but I can't get over how much forma I'd be using on something I couldn't even take to Pluto let alone T3 or T4.

 

So I just have a Tigris BP sitting in my foundry, hoping it either gets buffed or its prime comes out. A reduced reload would fix a lot of the guns problems, doesn't even have to be a significant amount.

[SIDESTRE4M]

I'm ok with situational weapons or niche.

 

However I don't think the small mag size in combination with a rather long reload time and ok damage is, what niche defines.

 

Embolist is niche for example. For most setups not very suitable, but with Volt shield its range becomes huge, or with Vauban and his ult.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Isn't that the charge mechanic you describe?

 

Yeah, checked and he was off point on that.  Only the charge decreases the Drakgoon's spread, aiming or a lack thereof doesn't change anything of it.

 

But anyways, back to the Tigris.  It still appears to have its old, old bug where manually reloading to swiftly causes its reload animation to double up on itself... could've sworn that was fixed eons ago though.  I'll try and replicate that more before actually making a post on it just incase I was seeing things.

 

1.8 seconds for a reload isn't really excessive, so I'm still a bit baffled that everyone is acting like it's a 2.3 or something even longer.  The Tigris, as it is, is the second hardest hitting shotgun, the fastest reloading shotgun, and one of the most accurate shotguns(forgot all their accuracy since looking at them last night).  On top of the "benefit" of having a lower pellet count.  An across the board rework and increase of the damage drop of ranges presented would make a huge difference, atop giving the Tigris a bit more damage to fit better into the hard hitter role.  I still think shotguns should all go back to the way they used to proc as well.

 

I've never had an issue at using the Tigris in a T3 mission, considering it's a place where CC is more or less close to a requirement if you're heading into either endless game mode anyways there will be CC present.  Can't say for T4 obviously, but I'm not overly concerned since it's got better damage than a lot of guns whilst still having a solid status chance.

 

As for the Embolist... I, I can't say I agree with you there SIDESTRE4M.  A weapon that basically only works at all with two frames is more limited than a shotgun that works with any CC at all.  Considering it's a reload heavy weapon, the Tigris does obviously synergize well with frames who can cast things that don't interrupt reloading animations.  Vauban, Sayrn, and Volt being the big three here, with a slight nod to Excalibur's Super Jump and Zephyr's Tailwind.  Additionally, A Loki Decoy nightstick party is all good times for a Tigris given punch through.

Edited June 25, 2014 by (PS4)Bobtm0

[SIDESTRE4M]

Embolist is something to behold.

 

I solo'd those hardcore lotus alerts (the prolog of the current event) a few weeks ago with it and a poison build.

 

I did use a CC and went with it straight into the horde. 

 

1.8 seconds are a group of enemies. Sure you can work around that flaw but at the end of the day, it's just your personal swag or something. :D

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Embolist is something to behold.

 

I solo'd those hardcore lotus alerts (the prolog of the current event) a few weeks ago with it and a poison build.

 

I did use a CC and went with it straight into the horde. 

 

1.8 seconds are a group of enemies. Sure you can work around that flaw but at the end of the day, it's just your personal swag or something. :D

 

To focus on the part I underlined, I just want a meaningful buff.  I seriously just don't think that a modification to the Tigris's reload time would really make the gun any more viable than it currently is.  But by this point I've practically said everything I can on the matter, so that's all I can do.  I'll leave it at that with a bit of another question;

 

Does anyone here that doesn't use the Tigris already, believe they'll suddenly start using it just because its reload time was shortened, let's say to a sharp degree and put it at 1.2?

 

PS;  I still despise the Embolist.  It's on the very short list of guns I'll never even give a second look.  I potato and keep everything because I'm a bit of a nutcase (including single variants of dual guns), but there are a few guns that even I look at and just groan.