Tigris Reload Speed

[R3DBelmont456]

To focus on the part I underlined, I just want a meaningful buff.  I seriously just don't think that a modification to the Tigris's reload time would really make the gun any more viable than it currently is.  But by this point I've practically said everything I can on the matter, so that's all I can do.  I'll leave it at that with a bit of another question;

 

Does anyone here that doesn't use the Tigris already, believe they'll suddenly start using it just because its reload time was shortened, let's say to a sharp degree and put it at 1.2?

 

PS;  I still despise the Embolist.  It's on the very short list of guns I'll never even give a second look.  I potato and keep everything because I'm a bit of a nutcase (including single variants of dual guns), but there are a few guns that even I look at and just groan.

Honestly, I would certainly enjoy using it a Helluva lot more if it had that reload speed just because I could add another mod to increase it's power rather than feeling obligated to equip a fast reaload mod on it which barely fixes the issue anyhow... I also feel that it's crit rate is a tad too low for it's already low pellet count, since 5% chance per pellet to crit at 7 pellets maximum still only gives you 5% chance per pellet, which still feels like every pellet does't pack enough punch to begin with...

[Cwierz]

I just want a meaningful buff.  I seriously just don't think that a modification to the Tigris's reload time would really make the gun any more viable than it currently is. 

 

This isn't exactally aimed at making it more viable, but rather at making it feel better to use and to increase usability in more situations.

Honestly, slash damage is probably the worst damage type for the shotgun... the enemies that are weak to slash damage are the ones that don't require burst damage, however the ones resistant to it are the ones where its burst damage could be appreciated. If all physical mods acted as pre-nerf accelerated blast, I feel like this weapon would instantly become better.

[SIDESTRE4M]

To focus on the part I underlined, I just want a meaningful buff. I seriously just don't think that a modification to the Tigris's reload time would really make the gun any more viable than it currently is. But by this point I've practically said everything I can on the matter, so that's all I can do. I'll leave it at that with a bit of another question;

Does anyone here that doesn't use the Tigris already, believe they'll suddenly start using it just because its reload time was shortened, let's say to a sharp degree and put it at 1.2?

PS; I still despise the Embolist. It's on the very short list of guns I'll never even give a second look. I potato and keep everything because I'm a bit of a nutcase (including single variants of dual guns), but there are a few guns that even I look at and just groan.

I would give it a shot most certainly. I think even most of Tigris owners wouldn't say no.

I'd rather see puncture instead of slash too or maybe an even distributed damage like Sybaris to make it more interesting?

Pleasedon't tell me now you like its slash damage type too because it's unique or something... ;)

Edited June 26, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Mak_Gohae]

I think the reload is fine since it's a one-shot weapon.

You are suppose to make the shots count.

Yes, in tremendously large groups it's not the best gun to have but you can solve that a bit with puncture.

[Cwierz]

I think the reload is fine since it's a one-shot weapon.

You are suppose to make the shots count.

Yes, in tremendously large groups it's not the best gun to have but you can solve that a bit with puncture.

Out of curiosity do you actually use the tigris and at least one other shotgun (discount phage)?

Why is this one weapon the exception as well? All other one shot weapons have short reload times (or charge). To compound this, the tigris is also a shotgun and has to worry about falloff (which means that in order to fight you need to be close to enemies, and reloading in an enemies face is pretty stupid). Add in the trigger system (which I actually like) and that totals up to a shotgun that can be a *@##$ to use. 

 

There is a difference between trade offs and just being a limitation that shouldn't be there.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

I would give it a shot most certainly. I think even most of Tigris owners wouldn't say no.

I'd rather see puncture instead of slash too or maybe an even distributed damage like Sybaris to make it more interesting?

Pleasedon't tell me now you like its slash damage type too because it's unique or something... ;)

 

I actually do like the Slash damage, but not due to uniqueness or effectiveness or anything of that sort.  There's nothing like bisecting a Corpus Crewman and watching his two halves sail through the sky after being pelted by a point blank Tigris shot.  The only actual useful parts of that from a gameplay perspective is its synergy with Nekros for Desecration spamming both halves to make a whole lot of loot, and Slash Procs.  Those alone aren't really enough to warrant leaving it like that in my opinion either.

 

But I'm not opposed to having its damage evenly distributed or changed, though for the record I would hate seeing it become puncture based.  The Tigris is partly a Status Chance weapon as well as a "hard hitter", and Puncture has a garbage/useless proc, being by a mile the worst of every possible proc type that currently exists.

 

Besides, I still never said "Don't decrease its reload time."  I've been saying "Don't just decrease its reload time."  For the most part, as much as I like DE, they've got a fairly poor track record for handling buffs on equipment thus far.  I honestly just believe that if they did decide to make some changes to the Tigris they'd see too many comments only harping on the reload time, change that, and call it done.

 

I also still think the biggest steps in the right direction would be to drastically increase or remove the damage falloff range, for all shotguns.

Edited June 26, 2014 by (PS4)Bobtm0

[SIDESTRE4M]

That's true for sure.

 

Somehow after all that discussion, I think after finishing Sybaris, I'll give Tigris a shot again and see how it works out for me.

[Tarille]

To pose a different question here to everyone who feels like answering;  What would be a good reload time to give the Tigris, in your opinion, to make it feel appropriately usable without modifying its other stats?

 

Well... To be on par with other one-hit-wonders, a 1 second reload would be in order (0.7 if modded) - This level is still slow enough where it'll feel sluggish unmodded when tackling multiples, but when modded it'd feel quite smooth (But still not "Who needs a fully auto-matic weapon anymore!" - Just like Vectis and Bows, it'd be a bit slow for really going to town on groups, but not punishingly so)

 

Though, with the fact it naturally has 2 shots per reload a 1.1 or 1.2 second reload might also be acceptable (0.77 and 0.84 when modded respectively) and be more balanced compared to the other 1 shot weapons (Though, their range advantage does mean I suggest this lower than what would objectively be the correct choice (Which is actually around 1.8 seconds...))

 

I'd rather see puncture instead of slash too or maybe an even distributed damage like Sybaris to make it more interesting?

Pleasedon't tell me now you like its slash damage type too because it's unique or something... ;)

 

Making it Puncture would likely make it too similar to the Hek in my opinion.

 

Slash damage is fun though, the Bleed proc doing instant tick of armour bypassing damage really helps out it's burst nature, unlike Impact and Punctures slower procs (Puncture being damage reduction and Impact being a stagger)

 

Evenly distributed damage would be unique though, currently we have Impact, Puncture and Slash shotguns (Sobek/Boar/Strun, Hek and Drakgoon/Tigris respectively)

[SIDESTRE4M]

Brakk for example has Slash and Impact.

 

Beats me, but is there a weapon with puncture that has a second physical damage type which is more or less on par?

(Excep those three type guns like Gremlins, Sybaris, Seer...)

 

For instance high slash and puncture.

[Mak_Gohae]

Out of curiosity do you actually use the tigris and at least one other shotgun (discount phage)?

 

No i have not used any shotgun ever.

 

Why is this one weapon the exception as well? All other one shot weapons have short reload times (or charge).

 

From wiki.

 

Sobek 4 secs,  Strun 3 secs, Drakgoon, Boar, Boar Prime 2.3 secs, Hek 2.2 secs, Phage 2 secs, Tigris 1.8 secs, Strun Wraith 1.5 secs.

 

Can anyone corfirm this in-game?

 

To compound this, the tigris is also a shotgun and has to worry about falloff (which means that in order to fight you need to be close to enemies, and reloading in an enemies face is pretty stupid).

 

It has the smallest pellet count which means it's the most accurate shotgun because falloff has the least impact when it happens.

 

Add in the trigger system (which I actually like) and that totals up to a shotgun that can be a $#*(@ to use.

Yes this can be annoying but since there are only two shot and you can get off it by pressing reload you dont really have to hold it for that long.

[Tarille]

From wiki.

 

Sobek 4 secs,  Strun 3 secs, Drakgoon, Boar, Boar Prime 2.3 secs, Hek 2.2 secs, Phage 2 secs, Tigris 1.8 secs, Strun Wraith 1.5 secs.

 

Can anyone corfirm this in-game?

 

I can confirm all those values aside from the Straith (I neither have it nor is it in the codex)

 

I'm unsure what this has to do with the quote? Unless you think 1.8 seconds is fast just because it's less than 2 seconds?

 

Other 1 shot weapons (Paris, Cernos, Paris Prime, Dread and Vectis) have 1 second charge/reload rather than 1.8.

 

1.8 is much more similar the the 2 second "Average" of 30-100 round magazine rifles than it is the the single round magazine weapons 1 second average.

 

 

It has the smallest pellet count which means it's the most accurate shotgun because falloff has the least impact when it happens.

 

Pellet count has no affect on falloff. It minimizes impact of spread, but does nothing for falloff.

 

Spread = The way the pellets travel outwards in a conelike shape, making the area they hit very wider the further they travel.

 

Falloff = Arbitrary distance where the damage shotgun pellets are reduced for "Balance Reasons"

[Mak_Gohae]

I can confirm all those values aside from the Straith (I neither have it nor is it in the codex)

 

I'm unsure what this has to do with the quote? Unless you think 1.8 seconds is fast just because it's less than 2 seconds?

 

Other 1 shot weapons (Paris, Cernos, Paris Prime, Dread and Vectis) have 1 second charge/reload rather than 1.8.

 

1.8 is much more similar the the 2 second "Average" of 30-100 round magazine rifles than it is the the single round magazine weapons 1 second average.

 

 

It's the fastest standard shotgun.

Why would you compare it to a bow? Specially when their full damage comes from charging which slows the shooting.

All snipers are one-shot weapons but the only that has a faster reload is the Vectis.

 

 

 

Pellet count has no affect on falloff. It minimizes impact of spread, but does nothing for falloff.

 

Spread = The way the pellets travel outwards in a conelike shape, making the area they hit very wider the further they travel.

 

Falloff = Arbitrary distance where the damage shotgun pellets are reduced for "Balance Reasons"

 

Tighter spreads mean you will have less pellets fly off to nowhere. It doesn't stop fallof but it's not as bad as the other shotguns. And since it has the most damage this shotgun does have a longer range than the other shotguns.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Mak_Gohae

[Cwierz]

 

Sobek 4 secs,  Strun 3 secs, Drakgoon, Boar, Boar Prime 2.3 secs, Hek 2.2 secs, Phage 2 secs, Tigris 1.8 secs, Strun Wraith 1.5 secs.

 

Can anyone corfirm this in-game?

 

 

 

It has the smallest pellet count which means it's the most accurate shotgun because falloff has the least impact when it happens.

 

 

 

Firstly, when I said "one shot" I literally meant weapons that had to fire "one shot" before reloading or charging.

That is the-

Vectis

and Bows

 

Both of these weapons/weapon types have a 1 second reload or charge time. The tigris, has a near two second reload time for a "single shot" clip. I was not comparing it to other shotguns, sorry for the confusion.

 

Also, small pellet count is not reflective of spread, spread is what determines accuracy, not pellet count. Aside from that, its still falloff. Falloff is falloff no matter what way you look at it, and it affects every shotgun making them ineffective at medium range.

[Tarille]

It's the fastest standard shotgun.

Why would you compare it to a bow? Specially when their full damage comes from charging which slows the shooting.

All snipers are one-shot weapons but the only that has a faster reload is the Vectis.

 

Yes it's the fastest standard shotgun. Though, Phage is practically the same value but can shoot a lot more before reloading (With no fire rate 1 full clip = 40 seconds of continual shooting, with damage per second being on par with Tigris double shot) and the Straith is apparently faster than the Tigris and has 4x the magazine capacity.

 

Why compare to bow? Because the Tigris acts very much like a 1-shot weapon. It's trigger mechanism means it can literally blow through its 2 shots in an instant, times where you don't do that you fire exactly 1 shot and then reload. It's essentially a 1 shot weapon where you can occasionally save a round.

 

What else is a 1 shot weapon? Vectis and all bows. Vectis has a single round magazine and a 1 second reload. Bows have a single round magazine and 1 second charge. It takes these weapons 1 second to refire their shots (Well, with a bit of delay on the Vectis after shooting before reloading and Bows 0.8/0.7 reload)

 

No other Sniper is a 1 shot weapon, only Vectis. The Vulkar and Snipetron have 4 round magazines, the Snipetron Vandal has a 6 round magazine and the Lanka has a 10 round magazine.

 

 

Tighter spreads mean you will have less pellets fly off to nowhere. It doesn't stop fallof but it's not as bad as the other shotguns. And since it has the most damage this shotgun does have a longer range than the other shotguns.

 

Tighter spread means you will have less pellets fly off to nowhere... Yes, I'm aware how spread works.

 

Having less pellets doesn't impact the spread, the spread of a shotgun is unique to the shotgun, not to the number of pellets. The only thing that affects a shotguns spread is mods (Vicious Spread increases it, Tainted Shell reduces it)

 

The only thing that number of pellets changes is how much spread will affect your shot, as the few pellets you hit with will be dealing a higher portion of your damage. Though, anyone good at aiming their shotgun will try to maximize their pellets hit anyway - Especially with something like the Tigris where it's crucial to kill your targets with the 2 shots you have otherwise you'll be blasted in the face while you reload.

 

As far as falloff goes, no. Tigris's higher damage doesn't give it extra range. Falloff is extremely harsh to the point where a couple of feet can turn pellets that deal hundreds of damage each into pellets that deal < 10 damage each. Falloff kills damage so much that it's practically doing no damage, regardless of how strong your shotgun is.

[Mak_Gohae]

Firstly, when I said "one shot" I literally meant weapons that had to fire "one shot" before reloading or charging.

That is the-

Vectis

and Bows

 

Both of these weapons/weapon types have a 1 second reload or charge time. The tigris, has a near two second reload time for a "single shot" clip. I was not comparing it to other shotguns, sorry for the confusion.

 

Ok but like i said above, i dont see the point in comparing them to bow when they need to charge their shots to be able to one-shot with their attacks which slows them down. And the shotgun has two shots so it's close to the Vectis but it's still not in the same group and even then the Vectis is the only weapon faster. So it's not like this weapon in the bad end.

 

 

 

Also, small pellet count is not reflective of spread, spread is what determines accuracy, not pellet count. Aside from that, its still falloff. Falloff is falloff no matter what way you look at it, and it affects every shotgun making them ineffective at medium range.

 

 

Tighter spread means you will have less pellets fly off to nowhere... Yes, I'm aware how spread works.

 

Having less pellets doesn't impact the spread, the spread of a shotgun is unique to the shotgun, not to the number of pellets. The only thing that affects a shotguns spread is mods (Vicious Spread increases it, Tainted Shell reduces it)

 

The only thing that number of pellets changes is how much spread will affect your shot, as the few pellets you hit with will be dealing a higher portion of your damage. Though, anyone good at aiming their shotgun will try to maximize their pellets hit anyway - Especially with something like the Tigris where it's crucial to kill your targets with the 2 shots you have otherwise you'll be blasted in the face while you reload.

 

As far as falloff goes, no. Tigris's higher damage doesn't give it extra range. Falloff is extremely harsh to the point where a couple of feet can turn pellets that deal hundreds of damage each into pellets that deal < 10 damage each. Falloff kills damage so much that it's practically doing no damage, regardless of how strong your shotgun is.

 

Well, outside of the Hek all shotguns seem to follow this pattern.

Anyway, let stay on topic and discuss the reload and not get sidetracked by something else.

 

 

 

 

Yes it's the fastest standard shotgun. Though, Phage is practically the same value but can shoot a lot more before reloading (With no fire rate 1 full clip = 40 seconds of continual shooting, with damage per second being on par with Tigris double shot) and the Straith is apparently faster than the Tigris and has 4x the magazine capacity.

 

Why compare to bow? Because the Tigris acts very much like a 1-shot weapon. It's trigger mechanism means it can literally blow through its 2 shots in an instant, times where you don't do that you fire exactly 1 shot and then reload. It's essentially a 1 shot weapon where you can occasionally save a round.

 

What else is a 1 shot weapon? Vectis and all bows. Vectis has a single round magazine and a 1 second reload. Bows have a single round magazine and 1 second charge. It takes these weapons 1 second to refire their shots (Well, with a bit of delay on the Vectis after shooting before reloading and Bows 0.8/0.7 reload)

 

No other Sniper is a 1 shot weapon, only Vectis. The Vulkar and Snipetron have 4 round magazines, the Snipetron Vandal has a 6 round magazine and the Lanka has a 10 round magazine.

 

 

When the term "one-shot" is universally means that amount of shots it takes to kill something.

This is the first time ever i have seen people refer "one-shot" as the amount of bullets in a clip/mag.

 

I categorize something as being "one-shot" as killing with one bullet. This is how i am discussing this.

And even if do accept bows, like i have said already, bows need a full charge to be able to one-shot enemies which extremely slows down their shooting which surely puts it on par with the trigis when i comes to the amount of shot they get to put out.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Mak_Gohae

[Cwierz]

Ok but like i said above, i dont see the point in comparing them to bow when they need to charge their shots to be able to one-shot with their attacks which slows them down. And the shotgun has two shots so it's close to the Vectis but it's still not in the same group and even then the Vectis is the only weapon faster. So it's not like this weapon in the bad end.

 

When the term "one-shot" is universally means that amount of shots it takes to kill something.

This is the first time ever i have seen people refer "one-shot" as the amount of bullets in a clip/mag.

 

I categorize something as being "one-shot" as killing with one bullet. This is how i am discussing this.

And even if do accept bows, like i have said already, bows need a full charge to be able to one-shot enemies which extremely slows down their shooting which surely puts it on par with the trigis when i comes to the amount of shot they get to put out.

Comparing reload speed without acknowledging clip size means that your point is now irrelevant. Those two factors are tied directly to each other. 

 

Discounting use of the word one shot,  bow charging is equivalent to their "reloading". And actually, bows end up firing about twice as fast as the tigris, considering I have both of them and speak from experience. The fact of the matter is, the tigris's trigger mechanic means that it is firing one shot , presuming we ignore bullS#&amp;&#036; semantics, before reloading. Every other weapon that does this that is comparable has a 1 second reload or charge time. Why is the one with falloff given a (practically) 2 second reload time? It doesn't make sense, and it feels terrible to use.

 

I love the tigris, but I want my love to be justified and I want to actually be able to use the damn thing.

[Mak_Gohae]

Comparing reload speed without acknowledging clip size means that your point is now irrelevant. Those two factors are tied directly to each other. 

 

Comparing the reload speed without acknowledging the charge mechanic to make the bow into a one-shot weapons makes your point irrelevant.

See, i can do this too.

 

 

Discounting use of the word one shot,  bow charging is equivalent to their "reloading". And actually, bows end up firing about twice as fast as the tigris, considering I have both of them and speak from experience. The fact of the matter is, the tigris's trigger mechanic means that it is firing one shot , presuming we ignore bullS#&$ semantics, before reloading. Every other weapon that does this that is comparable has a 1 second reload or charge time. Why is the one with falloff given a (practically) 2 second reload time? It doesn't make sense, and it feels terrible to use.

 

I love the tigris, but I want my love to be justified and I want to actually be able to use the damn thing.

 

P Prime 1 sec charge time to be one-shot+ .7 reload= 1.7 between shots.

Paris 1 sec charge time to be one-shot+ .8 sec reload = 1.8 between shots

Dread 1 sec charge time to be one-shot+ .8 sec reload= 1.8 between shots

Cernos 1 sec charge time to be one-shot+ .8 sec reload= 1.8 between shots

 

And this is ignoring the fact that aim is harder because the arrows arc.

 

Also ignoring the fact that there is no reason to compare a bow to a shotgun.

[Azamagon]

@ DE's whiteknight #1 Mak - Bows can have a near-instant chargetime with RoF mods, they deals TONS of damage (even uncharged they deal LOADS of damage, making them even more flexible in terms of speed than the Tigris), have huge potential range and has a form of punchthrough with their corpse ragdolling (and due to their insane damage, killing most enemies in one shot, this means nearly a constant punchthrough too)

 

Tigris has about double the reloadtime, RoF does pretty much nothing to it, it only deals good damage at close / medium range, has spread (good and bad I guess?) and has no innate punchthrough. Oh, and shotguns generally have far worse mods than rifles.

 

Tigris needs buffing, no doubt about it. I'd buff it by giving it:

1) Quicker reload

2) Some innate punchthrough

3) More damage (how about +50 or more Puncture damage?)

 

I really like the Tigris, it's probably my favourite shotgun. But it is so unsuitable and unpractical for actual combat compared to most other shotguns, which also removes a lot of its potential FUN factor (which is very important in a game you know?)

[Cwierz]

Comparing the reload speed without acknowledging the charge mechanic to make the bow into a one-shot weapons makes your point irrelevant.

See, i can do this too.

 

 

 

P Prime 1 sec charge time to be one-shot+ .7 reload= 1.7 between shots.

Paris 1 sec charge time to be one-shot+ .8 sec reload = 1.8 between shots

Dread 1 sec charge time to be one-shot+ .8 sec reload= 1.8 between shots

Cernos 1 sec charge time to be one-shot+ .8 sec reload= 1.8 between shots

 

And this is ignoring the fact that aim is harder because the arrows arc.

 

Also ignoring the fact that there is no reason to compare a bow to a shotgun.

The reload speed listed on the wiki and in the arsenal is not reflective of how a bow reloads. The "reload" is instant.

 

EDIT: Also, the shot is a pretty pathetic arc if it has one. Its hardly noticeable. Also, the reason we are comparing a bow to this shotgun is because they both operate in a similar manner. One shot, reload, one shot etc. However, in this case the tigris is left with severe underhandment for no discernible reason. Its grasping at straws and being unable/unwilling to see why we are comparing the two. Seriously, its pretty clear to everyone else active in the thread why the comparison is being made.

 

I shall outline again in case you missed it.

 

Why are the tigris and bow/vectis family so similar? The tigris is a weapon that fires one shot before it must reload. If we consider that charging is the bows form of reloading, the Bow family and Vectis also fall into this category. The tigris is considered to be awkward to use because of its lengthy reload time (in relation to clip size), something which the other weapons that share a similar state do not have (and are thus considered reasonable alternatives to the traditional choices).

 

As for why the fix? The weapon after this fix will be better suited to combat in the first place. It might not be the option that makes it befitting of how powerful it should be, but rather makes it actually (in comparison to the other weapons) usable in the first place.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Cwierz

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Wow, things really took off here while I was away.

 

I can back what Cwierz is saying about Bows and their reload.  Go back a handful of update versions and the Bows did not have instant reloads, however, a while back they changed Bows so that they no longer have a magazine size at all, subsequently that change caused them all to gain instant reloads.

 

Beyond that, to cover my opinion of Azamagon's suggested as far as buffs for the Tigris.

1) Yes

2) YES

3) YES (not Puncture though, since the Tigris is part proc weapon, puncture damage would be very detrimental)

 

Additional 4) Either remove all falloff from all Shotguns, or noticeably increase the range before it occurs, also giving the Tigris longer range than everything except the Hek.

[Mak_Gohae]

The reload speed listed on the wiki and in the arsenal is not reflective of how a bow reloads. The "reload" is instant.

 

EDIT: Also, the shot is a pretty pathetic arc if it has one. Its hardly noticeable. Also, the reason we are comparing a bow to this shotgun is because they both operate in a similar manner. One shot, reload, one shot etc. However, in this case the tigris is left with severe underhandment for no discernible reason. Its grasping at straws and being unable/unwilling to see why we are comparing the two. Seriously, its pretty clear to everyone else active in the thread why the comparison is being made.

 

I shall outline again in case you missed it.

 

Why are the tigris and bow/vectis family so similar? The tigris is a weapon that fires one shot before it must reload. If we consider that charging is the bows form of reloading, the Bow family and Vectis also fall into this category. The tigris is considered to be awkward to use because of its lengthy reload time (in relation to clip size), something which the other weapons that share a similar state do not have (and are thus considered reasonable alternatives to the traditional choices).

 

As for why the fix? The weapon after this fix will be better suited to combat in the first place. It might not be the option that makes it befitting of how powerful it should be, but rather makes it actually (in comparison to the other weapons) usable in the first place.

 

[Cwierz]

1 thing- are you firing the bow as fast as possible? It doesn't seem like you are. I play with a paris prime without a speed trigger, and the delay you have between your shots isn't present for me. As soon as the first arrow has left I am already drawing back most of the time. Of course if you wait for the .8 second long reload animation to finish it would appear to be the same, but I am not positive the animation has to occur in order to start charging.

Another person does agree with me, the reload time is not reflective of the current state of bows.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Cwierz

[Mak_Gohae]

1 thing- are you firing the bow as fast as possible? It does't seem like you are. I play with a paris prime without a speed trigger, and the delay you have between your shots isn't present for me. As soon as the first arrow has left I am already drawing back most of the time. Of course if you wait for the .8 second long reload animation to finish it would appear to be the same, but I am not positive the animation has to occur in order to start charging.

Another person does agree with me, the reload time is not reflective of the current state of bows.

 

I did it again keeping the fire button held down and the animation does occur but the shooting became faster.

It ended up gaining 2 seconds after 3 shots.

 

 

Still, i dont consider it a big deal given that it's easier to target with the shotgun than with a bow and you dont need the full charge to one-shot things.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Mak_Gohae

[Tar_Spit_Fire]

I can only quote one person, but this is a two parter.  Everything after the first underscore line is more in reply to SIDESTRE4M rather than the one I did quote.  The second underscore line just branches out into a general point not directed towards anyone at all.

 

 

Yeah, totally no reason.  Nope, not any reasoning at all.  Owait though, why would I post something and suggest alternate buffs to shotguns across the board!  Seriously, rather than bandwagoning thoughtlessly try actually adding something productive beyond a nearly pointless one liner.  I didn't make a longer than one line post for no reason.  While I said no-ish (I clearly wasn't outright against decreasing the reload time, if you read my post) I proposed other things which could be done, like increasing the Tigris's damage appropriately so that it hits hard enough to warrant its magazine limitations.

 

As it stands, Shotguns are inherently a poor weapon class, it's arguable to say which is weaker overall between them and Snipers at this given moment truthfully.  The only reason Snipers get more focus is due to them having another weapon class (Bows) which directly one-up them in their same niche.  Technically speaking, there isn't much else that encroaches upon the realm of the shotguns, so their overall weaknesses somehow just get ignored.

 

Prior to the status nerf which Shotguns received, they were at least monsters at abusing status procs.  Theoretically speaking, if that nerf were reversed and then Shotguns had their damage drop off ranges tweaked, they would all gain a fair bit of viability.

 

From my time spent using the Tigris, I just don't think decreasing its reload time would be a worthwhile buff.  This is why I've suggested other buffs that would be more appropriate, in my opinion.  Expressing different opinions is kind of what proper feedback is about.

 

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As much as I dig the Drakgoon, it doesn't have nothing but strengths.  Unless I'm suddenly daft or things have changed, the Drakgoon's normalized Spread, even at full charge, is greater than the Tigris's.  This can equate to a direct loss in damage per shot due to having some pellets not land upon the target.  It also has a rather slow projectile velocity and a forced delay between every individual shot, cause by the need to charge the gun.  The Drakgoon's uncharged shot is quite literally and totally pointless, no gains to it whatsoever.  If it wasn't for the innate punch through, the Drakgoon would (in my opinion) be a worse gun overall than the Tigris.

 

Both are Slash damage focused, so there's not much to say about that inherently.  Elemental focus has been the name of the game since Damage 2.0 rolled out, so that's not really anything surprising.  While Slash may not be the "best" of the physical damage types, it does have the strongest proc type amongst them without question.

 

Again, I'm not saying that the Tigris is perfectly fine and requires no changes, but I feel that its reload is in a fine place.  Polish what its focus is supposed to be, not just try and weaken its weak point.

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So, in summation what am I getting at here?  Yes, please do buff the Tigris and Shotguns in general while you're at it DE.  However, don't make it some half-rear ended slight change to reload time and call it a day.  Because at the end of that day, the Tigris won't have become any more viable.

 

Focus on meaningful buffs, not something tiny and minor.

are you a mother or something? i mean holy cow you can type so long to explain that your point is valid for a very short reply *you must be boring in the party... But im too lazy to read the whole article so yea... next time makes things shorter for us to read... this game is very easy to understands, and i have tried all the weapon and i understand all of the weapons mechanics so don't treat other player like they are dumb and needs you to teach them.. what i mean is simple. reduce the reload speed of the weapon and it will be very nice to use on every frame... *pls dun make another long reply man... 

[Cwierz]

I did it again keeping the fire button held down and the animation does occur but the shooting became faster.

It ended up gaining 2 seconds after 3 shots.

 

 

Still, i dont consider it a big deal given that it's easier to target with the shotgun than with a bow and you dont need the full charge to one-shot things.

I personally think that targetting with any gun in this game is relatively easy, so that point doesn't hold particuraly true for some people. However, what you need to consider now is the mods avaliable for each weapon to speed itself up-

Speed Trigger at 60%

Tactical Pump at 30%

In the end, the difference is quite large.