Valkyr Vs Rhino

[TrinityPrime]

Keep in mind, Valkyr is next on the nerf list.

[Ishki88]

Keep in mind, Valkyr is next on the nerf list.

 

Where are you getting this from Trinity?   

[Pirate_Shark]

Keep in mind, Valkyr is next on the nerf list.

Show some proof? The only thing they would do with hysteria if anything is to remove the i-frame and add more life steal to hysteria to compensate. She is a berzerker frame designed to survive in melee as long as she is killing stuff.

[TrinityPrime]

"Valkyr rework" was mentioned in one of the last two devstreams.

[Tarille]

"Valkyr rework" was mentioned in one of the last two devstreams.

 

In this case the "Rework" is referencing the brand new Hysteria animations, combos and such.

 

Rework =/= Nerf in all cases.

[Ishki88]

"Valkyr rework" was mentioned in one of the last two devstreams.

>Rework

 

So you basically pulled that comment out ya lobster tail.

 

The only possible nerf is her ULT not being able to utilize Blind Rage + Intensify.  And DE has stated they are "testing" her out with said combo.   Ironically, they disabled those mods when they released Melee 9.032432.   And I haven't seen to many players complain yet so......maybe they'll add them back..or just leave them out and slowly walk away....

[TrinityPrime]

In this case the "Rework" is referencing the brand new Hysteria animations, combos and such.

 

Rework =/= Nerf in all cases.

 

My bad, I misunderstood that.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Waifu always wins.

[Pirate_Shark]

>Rework

 

So you basically pulled that comment out ya lobster tail.

 

The only possible nerf is her ULT not being able to utilize Blind Rage + Intensify.  And DE has stated they are "testing" her out with said combo.   Ironically, they disabled those mods when they released Melee 9.032432.   And I haven't seen to many players complain yet so......maybe they'll add them back..or just leave them out and slowly walk away....

I never noticed a nerf in damage with them on since I last tried she still does a max of 12,500 damage per slash in hysteria with dual Ichor's. I may test that.

[Tarille]

I never noticed a nerf in damage with them on since I last tried she still does a max of 12,500 damage per slash in hysteria with dual Ichor's. I may test that.

 

U13 stopped Power Strength and also any mods to weapon damage (Pressure Point, Spoiled Strike and Steel Charge) from affecting Hysteria's damage.

 

I did some test a while back (Also there was a bunch of threads the day U13 dropped when people noticed a damage drop and was figuring out exactly what had happened) and these just don't do anything to Hysteria's damage these days.

 

Fury and Crit Mods do still carry over though, so decent damage crits are still possible.

[Ishki88]

I never noticed a nerf in damage with them on since I last tried she still does a max of 12,500 damage per slash in hysteria with dual Ichor's. I may test that.

Let me know your results.  As far as I know BR + INT only effect Warcry and her third power (name slipped my mind) now.

[Cleesus]

A better comparison would be warcry with max power strength vs iron skin with the same. The are both powers that add to tankyness. Of course Valk would still come on top but still.

 

I see someone already did it

Edited June 24, 2014 by theclinton

[Azawarau]

Okay, so a friend and I did the correct math, and we pretty much found out that Valkyr is better than Rhino in terms of "tanki-ness". This is all assuming both characters are using the Energy Siphon Aura Mod, though the Valkyr could get away with it by using the Steel Charge Aura Mod.

At maxed out Steel Fiber and maxed out Vitality mods, the Valkyr gets "effectively" 4700 hp, disregarding shields.

At maxed out Steel Fiber and maxed out Vitality mods AND power strength maximized, the Rhino gets "effectively" 4748 hp, disregarding shields.

 

 

Now, you realize that the Rhino has 48 more hp, however... the problem with this, is that you're using an ability, and you're using 77.5 energy to just barely PEAK over the Valkyr's bonuses with mods alone.

However, if the Valkyr uses Hysteria, which costs 100 energy, she restores 5% of the damage she does, as health and with power duration mods, increases it to 77.1 seconds of invincibility and health restoration attacks.

 

The only thing Valkyr has to worry about is gaining back the health she loses while she's in Hysteria by doing damage.

Im laughing a bit

 

You didnt add Warcry to this

 

When you do youll know theres simply no comparison

 

EDIT

 

Also trinity is tankier than rhino...

Edited June 24, 2014 by Azawarau

[Zubaz]

Warframe which can Stomp hard enough to break time versus the "victim" waframe which has the ultimate power of suffer a personality disorder at will.

 

I still don't see why she is not completely dropped yet and grappling hook became a consumable item like it should be. You can talk all you want but Valkyr is just "grappling hook frame" no matter how much effort goes into her animations melee as ultimate just doesn't cut it.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Zubaz

[Pirate_Shark]

Let me know your results.  As far as I know BR + INT only effect Warcry and her third power (name slipped my mind) now.

Hysteria is as far as I can tell no longer affected by power mods. However with melee 2.0 they gave hysteria channeling and any mods on your melee weapon will all affect hysteria. I am doing exactly the same damage with my swords as I am with hysteria. Same crits and simiar DPS. The highest crit I ever got was 35k. Hysteria's average damage is 7K-8K per slash. My swords will do more damage overtime as I get more damage modifiers from killing a bunch of enemies in a row. Hysteria has actually been buffed. I will test what channeling mods can do for hysteria. You can use channeling in hysteria now! 

[Kartumterek]

Rhino is for lazy ezmode play. Valk is for more advanced play. You can guess which the vast majority of players go for.

[Pirate_Shark]

Warframe which can Stomp hard enough to break time versus the "victim" waframe which has the ultimate power of suffer a personality disorder at will.

 

I still don't see why she is not completely dropped yet and grappling hook became a consumable item like it should be. You can talk all you want but Valkyr is just "grappling hook frame" no matter how much effort goes into her animations melee as ultimate just doesn't cut it.

I don't agree because I can come out on top in most defenses as killing more then AOE frames or be on par with them getting hundreds of kills in 15 waves. All I use is dual ichors and hysteria. Thing is my valkyr is potatoed, with 7 forma and maxed out mods! LOL My build is heavily based on speed, tank, and melee DPS. I only have 5 free power left out of 60 power at level 30. This build is very power hungry.

[Tarille]

Also trinity is tankier than rhino...

 

Trinity is tankier than even Valkyr (If my Math is right):

 

860 shields - Equates to 3440 with Link up. Which when doubled due to Guardian proccing is 6880 Effective Shields.

32 armour

951 Effective Health - Equates to 3804 with Link up.

 

Total Effective Health = 10684

 

With possible Blessings fully restoring health and shields every 1.2 seconds (Though, a normal build would drop Steel Fiber and get some Duration to make Link more usable - Continuity + Narrow Minded = 21s Link and Blessing every 5.4 seconds. Continuity + Constitution + Narrow Minded = 24s Link and Blessing every 6.2 seconds)

 

This doesn't account for the fact that Blessing can give damage reduction, nor the fact that a lot of the damage you take (Also status effects) are reflected to enemies to boot.

 

Yes, Trinity is that damn ballin'... And people wonder why she needed nerfing...

[Azawarau]

I don't agree because I can come out on top in most defenses as killing more then AOE frames or be on par with them getting hundreds of kills in 15 waves. All I use is dual ichors and hysteria. Thing is my valkyr is potatoed, with 7 forma and maxed out mods! LOL My build is heavily based on speed, tank, and melee DPS. I only have 5 free power left out of 60 power at level 30. This build is very power hungry.

I do the same with warcry and dont need invincibility for it...

 

Trinity is tankier than even Valkyr (If my Math is right):

 

860 shields - Equates to 3440 with Link up. Which when doubled due to Guardian proccing is 6880 Effective Shields.

32 armour

951 Effective Health - Equates to 3804 with Link up.

 

Total Effective Health = 10684

 

With possible Blessings fully restoring health and shields every 1.2 seconds (Though, a normal build would drop Steel Fiber and get some Duration to make Link more usable - Continuity + Narrow Minded = 21s Link and Blessing every 5.4 seconds. Continuity + Constitution + Narrow Minded = 24s Link and Blessing every 6.2 seconds)

 

This doesn't account for the fact that Blessing can give damage reduction, nor the fact that a lot of the damage you take (Also status effects) are reflected to enemies to boot.

 

Yes, Trinity is that damn ballin'... And people wonder why she needed nerfing...

Trinity doesnt feel as tanky as Valkyr when i play her but i know she is especially after blessing

 

I really dont know why people think shes bad now

 

Shes liek a Valkyr that isnt melee dependent

 

Though i still prefer Valkyr for the speedy melee buff

 

If only Hysteria were useful

[Lost_Cartographer]

Hysteria's multipliers last for the duration of hysteria last I checked.  That means after 30 seconds of constantly punching something, nothing is really going to survive her next ***** slap.  It doesn't really adopt the weapon's damage, but it is influenced by the weapon's crit rate, damage mods, and attack speed.  Otherwise, it's a default 300 damage per attack that just grows and grows and grows...

 

Invulnerability, life steal, and a quickly growing power modifier - might be an OP combo, if it worked well in a defense without a team or helped a team at all beyond bludgeoning bad guys one by one with reckless abandon.  

 

Warcry is overall the better group buff and crowd control utility.  Hysteria is more a solo survivalist ability.  Both are extremely useful, but also expensive to cast, and the former is on a shorter duration that the latter (which in my opinion seems backwards, honestly.)  Spec wisely.  A Valkyr having hysteria when there is ample healing going around is wasting a mod slot.  Paralysis would be a better ability just due to it's brief stun and ridiculous spam potential (5 energy per pop, and you're certainly not using it for the meager damage.)

Edited June 24, 2014 by Littleman88

[Azawarau]

Hysteria's multipliers last for the duration of hysteria last I checked.  That means after 30 seconds of constantly punching something, nothing is really going to survive her next ***** slap.  It doesn't really adopt the weapon's damage, but it is influenced by the weapon's crit rate, damage mods, and attack speed.  Otherwise, it's a default 300 damage per attack that just grows and grows and grows...

 

Invulnerability, life steal, and a quickly growing power modifier - might be an OP combo, if it worked well in a defense without a team or helped a team at all beyond bludgeoning bad guys one by one with reckless abandon.  

 

Warcry is overall the better group buff and crowd control utility.  Hysteria is more a solo survivalist ability.  Both are extremely useful, but also expensive to cast, and the former is on a shorter duration that the latter (which in my opinion seems backwards, honestly.)  Spec wisely.  A Valkyr having hysteria when there is ample healing going around is wasting a mod slot.  Paralysis would be a better ability just due to it's brief stun and ridiculous spam potential (5 energy per pop, and you're certainly not using it for the meager damage.)

Do i need to pull out a tanking video on you again?

[Ishki88]

Hysteria is as far as I can tell no longer affected by power mods. However with melee 2.0 they gave hysteria channeling and any mods on your melee weapon will all affect hysteria. I am doing exactly the same damage with my swords as I am with hysteria. Same crits and simiar DPS. The highest crit I ever got was 35k. Hysteria's average damage is 7K-8K per slash. My swords will do more damage overtime as I get more damage modifiers from killing a bunch of enemies in a row. Hysteria has actually been buffed. I will test what channeling mods can do for hysteria. You can use channeling in hysteria now! 

Could of sworn Channeling didn't boost Hysteria O.O  Seems like I have to do more testing myself...

[Pirate_Shark]

I do the same with warcry and dont need invincibility for it...

 

Trinity doesnt feel as tanky as Valkyr when i play her but i know she is especially after blessing

 

I really dont know why people think shes bad now

 

Shes liek a Valkyr that isnt melee dependent

 

Though i still prefer Valkyr for the speedy melee buff

 

If only Hysteria were useful

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/795187630832403104/59A6983082855861C8B3B92B280FF8259DCC3B5D/

 

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/795187630832801987/797C03E96ABBADCB423A3F5ECF41D5799B117501/

 

These screenshots are really old but I did this with a perma hysteria build. I never died but the pod imploded because the waves DPS was doing like 10k DPS on the pod. 

 

Let me know if you are able to get past wave 45 with level 81 enemies with a warcry/life steal build. I might try it because my tank is way stronger then it was when I made those screenshots. But I don't think it will hold up at that level like hysteria does. 

[Azawarau]

Against infested it certainly will

 

Use either the Lecta or Serro with lightning Gas combo and youve got a stun parade going thatll kill and cover the pod

[Beas7ie]

I did the comparison of the armor advantages of both characters. My friend argued that the Rhino is better because of Iron Skin... but that's not true, because the Valkyr HAS as much health as the Rhino, even with Iron Skin.

 

 

Except you have nothing to counter the Valkyr's invincibility, so... not really the male version at all.

 

 

But keep in mind that Rhino's Iron Skin also gives him CC immunity.  Shockwave Moas, Nope!  Bombard rocket going off next to you blowing you away? NOPE!   Disruptor mucking up your energy?  NOPE!   Plus with Vanguard helmet or Rhino Prime, he is faster.   There is more to "tanking" than just building as much health as you possibly can.  

 

 

Besides a lot of this is just "on paper" stuff.  When you get in game, does anyone really notice?  I compare this to people putting 4 or 5  forma's and making the "perfect setup" for all their weapons.  Sure they have the very best DPS but unless you're in wave 25  or 40 minutes in a T4 Defense or Survival, you're not really going in with a huge advantage with someone who has a "more basic" setup.  Really all you're getting is just more overkill.