So, Basically Every New Item Is Going To Be Clantech Or Platinum Gated?

[Klazik]

Stop whining. Srsly. I'm a solo player most of the time. Want to know what I did? I build my own god damn dojo, and researched everything. So stop whining and start grinding!

[Shousa]

Stop whining. Srsly. I'm a solo player most of the time. Want to know what I did? I build my own god damn dojo, and researched everything. So stop whining and start grinding!

I did exactly the same, research everything on my own. Well my dojo is bare naked visualy, but i have all what can be build. I have no use for solar rail, but i have built it. If only I could deploy for my own pleasure.

[DirkDeadeye]

Stop whining. Srsly. I'm a solo player most of the time. Want to know what I did? I build my own god damn dojo, and researched everything. So stop whining and start grinding!

 

That's nice, that's not what this thread is about. It's more about the burden it puts on Warlords for revolving door players. Thanks for being callous though.

 

I mean do any of you people even read the "god damn" op? You think I'm that stupid. Come on.

Edited June 26, 2014 by DirkDeadeye

[RealPandemonium]

Join any of the random clans that spam Recruit chat and use their lab.  If you're a dedicated player you can build your own clan/dojo, but that will take time and formae.

 

If people are joining your clan for the research and then bailing that means there was no incentive for them to be in your clan besides that.  You are not entitled to having a huge roster for your clan.  That is something you have to build up through recruitment efforts or whatever circumstance that might end up in long-term enrollment.  Currently the gameplay incentive for clans is the research labs, so that's what the vast majority of clan recruits will care about necessarily.

Edited June 26, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[DirkDeadeye]

Join any of the random clans that spam Recruit chat and use their lab.  If you're a dedicated player you can build your own clan/dojo, but that will take time and formae.

 

Im done.

 

Fuckin insert table flip gif.

[InForWar]

You're just asking the solo minded individuals to join clans? There's a lot of turnover due to people joining clans and leaving for their research.

 

Let me put this in more simpler terms. Not everyone is going to make their own dojo. I mean, to me, and a lot of us 10 or so forma and the handful of plastids and polymer bundles are nothing my alt has a fully built dojo. I do agree it is a solution, more of a bandaid to the particular problem by gating all this new content all the sudden through clantech.

 

The problem now is, there's a huge influx of people who want in clans, to get the research and leave. It sucks for warlords who want active clans, it's gonna force them to go through tighter recruitment regiments and ultimately harm their desire to do so. It kinda bugs me that I have to edit my OP because there are so many people assuming i'm whining about not getting clantech items. I'm thinking in broader terms. Although I was kind of nebulous, or even incomprehensible in my original OP which is below.

 

 

Flesh that part out first before gating new content through research...cause you're just making the task of a warlord or officer that much harder right now..which burdens them into a sense of not wanting to gel their respective niches in the community and furthermore disperse the people interested in actually playing this game with a sense of fellowship.

There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be in a clan, even not actively. 

They want you to play in a group, and they are right. 

I think the way they're doing it is correct.

 

They are calling it an MMORPG.

If they were to consider it as a TPS, you'd see everything in the market.

Edited June 26, 2014 by InForWar

[DirkDeadeye]

There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be in a clan, even not actively. 

They want you to play in a group, and they are right. 

I think the way they're doing it is correct.

 

They are calling it an MMORPG.

If they were to consider it as a TPS, you'd see everything in the market.

 

Yes, lest the problem of revolving door players.

 

I mean, if they would just make it to where people had to wait a week? To get clantech equipment that would be great for the warlords who want an active clan, edit: but then you got the ghost bros who will throw a damn fit.. Maybe actually get people to try playing in a clan. But as it is now, and as I've said before, it promotes a system where clans are constantly dealing with in and out players, and it can be frustrating.

 

Maybe gate clantech through the guild tab somehow. Which I mean, is kind of already there, initiates are barred from joining the dojo unless someone else is there. Maybe don't allow them to access the equipment, or the warlords the ability to gate that privilege. (but make it default :P)

Edited June 26, 2014 by DirkDeadeye

[Mak_Gohae]

You're just asking the solo minded individuals to join clans? There's a lot of turnover due to people joining clans and leaving for their research.

 

Let me put this in more simpler terms. Not everyone is going to make their own dojo. I mean, to me, and a lot of us 10 or so forma and the handful of plastids and polymer bundles are nothing my alt has a fully built dojo. I do agree it is a solution, more of a bandaid to the particular problem by gating all this new content all the sudden through clantech.

 

The problem now is, there's a huge influx of people who want in clans, to get the research and leave. It sucks for warlords who want active clans, it's gonna force them to go through tighter recruitment regiments and ultimately harm their desire to do so. It kinda bugs me that I have to edit my OP because there are so many people assuming i'm whining about not getting clantech items. I'm thinking in broader terms. Although I was kind of nebulous, or even incomprehensible in my original OP which is below.

 

 

Flesh that part out first before gating new content through research...cause you're just making the task of a warlord or officer that much harder right now..which burdens them into a sense of not wanting to gel their respective niches in the community and furthermore disperse the people interested in actually playing this game with a sense of fellowship.

 

 

I guess they can make it so new members cant replicate BPs until they have been in a clan for a week?

That's really the only solution to this if you dont want to put more work into invites.

[Gigaus]

it is a Coop driven game

 

Could have fooled me with how many players ignore their team mates and let them die with no enemies around.

 

@mak: That would just piss off people who want to get into a clan with their friends and get going fast [i.E. Half my friends who join]. It wouldn't stop people from leaving the minute they get the clan tech; It just means they'd be there for longer is all.

 

And OP does bring up a good point besides the Clan tech one...We really haven't had a non-clan tech weapon that can just be bought on the market in a while....OR, conversely, a clan tech weapon that can't just be skipped by paying real money....ATM, the new weapons just have an extra level of grind AND A wait time for anyone who doesn't pay-- You didn't pay?...Well you get to wait three days and spend twice as much as normal...On top of having to farm for S#&$ that normally costs $5 and has a 2% drop rate [1 in 50 chance].

 

Are we just going to be getting weapons gated like this from now on?.....And worse yet, is there going to be a new level of gating where you have to triple pay in game just to get a weapon? Mean, Argon and Clan tech is bad enough, what else are they going to add?

[DiBBz]

Ah! Ah! I'm not talking about new players. There are plenty of people around that aren't new that don't involve themselves with clans, who just hop in and out of clans to grab the research. May I remind you of that element of my post. Solo does not equate new.

again whats the problem here ?

 

if they are a solo player and are just wanting to get into a dojo and obtain BP for weapons well thats that. there is nothing you can do about it - so just let it be or dont just go inviting willy nilly all random people - have restricting or dont promote them to a rank that can get into the dojo

 

either way if your clan is open to all and invites all then you better expect to get a couple of clan hoppers or solo players joining once in a while. so again this argument is invalid

[Pizzarugi]

I agree that most content shouldn't be gated behind clans, it seems like an unnecessary obligation to force players to join a clan in order to access these things. What if players don't want to be in a clan? What if they're not active enough to stay in a clan? What if they show no interest in engaging in clan-based activities? They have to jump through hoops in order for them to obtain shiny new gear, meanwhile clan officers+ have to deal with the influx of people coming, going, or generally not doing anything at all besides obtaining weapons/warframes.

 

A bandaid solution? During solar rail conflicts, players can have a chance of getting warframe/weapon clantech BPs at random as rewards (based on whichever side you chose has the tech unlocked or not). This would allow non-clan players to get stuff without forcing them to join clans to get it then leave or linger and not do anything worthwhile.

 

 

Stop whining. Srsly. I'm a solo player most of the time. Want to know what I did? I build my own god damn dojo, and researched everything. So stop whining and start grinding!

So your solution: Grind to the point you no longer enjoy the game, grab all the forma, and then blow it all away making rooms/labs/warframes/weapons, or spend a buttload of platinum to reduce the time and effort?

I'm sure lots of players are as dedicated/rich as you, and will be more than happy to go through all that tedium to make a forever-empty dojo JUST to get the clantech.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Pizzarugi

[Archeyef]

I think the bottom line here is that this problem with players clanhopping is a problem with the players and will most likely always be. They're the people who aren't interested in joining a clan for any reason beyond "I want the fancy new stuff" and pretty much the only thing you can do to fix that is to make lab access into a privilege giving based on member rank. But then it becomes an issue of keeping track of how long every new member has been in, and then going through the memberlist and manually raising their rank. And even that won't work in the long run, you'll still have clanhoppers, they'll just be slower. Which would probably compound the problem, because you'll have clan leaders thinking "Oh, we have enough members, let's upgrade our clan tier" and suddenly they're down however many players in a tier in which they are now underpopulated for.

 

It doesn't matter how appealing you make clan membership, it doesn't matter how appealing the clantech is, and it doesn't matter how long you make them wait. There will always be people like this. The only way to keep them out of clans is to figure out some way of spotting them and not allowing them to enter in the first place.

 

Anything DE can do is going to be a blanket change, and that will affect people it probably shouldn't. MAYBE the clan tracker system I suggested earlier (you asked for constructive feedback and I tried coming up with a couple ideas, I can see how much conversation that generated) could work with minimal harm, if it's calibrated right. But it'd have to be done perfectly, and being barred from joining another clan for as long a time as it would take to make it effective just seems... wrong. You'd definitely get people complaining about that, and frankly I'm against it myself.

[RealPandemonium]

It's like OP is complaining that the people he wants to pad his clan's roster with don't actually care about his clan.  That's the definition of roster-padding.  If you want people to care, give them a reason to care and maybe they'll stick around.

[DirkDeadeye]

It's like OP is complaining that the people he wants to pad his clan's roster with don't actually care about his clan.  That's the definition of roster-padding.  If you want people to care, give them a reason to care and maybe they'll stick around.

 

I'm not running an active clan.

 

I will soon, perhaps, but don't make assessments about me like that, it's kind of rude. Just ask what my motivation is.

[DirkDeadeye]

I think the bottom line here is that this problem with players clanhopping is a problem with the players and will most likely always be. They're the people who aren't interested in joining a clan for any reason beyond "I want the fancy new stuff" and pretty much the only thing you can do to fix that is to make lab access into a privilege giving based on member rank. But then it becomes an issue of keeping track of how long every new member has been in, and then going through the memberlist and manually raising their rank. And even that won't work in the long run, you'll still have clanhoppers, they'll just be slower. Which would probably compound the problem, because you'll have clan leaders thinking "Oh, we have enough members, let's upgrade our clan tier" and suddenly they're down however many players in a tier in which they are now underpopulated for.

 

It doesn't matter how appealing you make clan membership, it doesn't matter how appealing the clantech is, and it doesn't matter how long you make them wait. There will always be people like this. The only way to keep them out of clans is to figure out some way of spotting them and not allowing them to enter in the first place.

 

Anything DE can do is going to be a blanket change, and that will affect people it probably shouldn't. MAYBE the clan tracker system I suggested earlier (you asked for constructive feedback and I tried coming up with a couple ideas, I can see how much conversation that generated) could work with minimal harm, if it's calibrated right. But it'd have to be done perfectly, and being barred from joining another clan for as long a time as it would take to make it effective just seems... wrong. You'd definitely get people complaining about that, and frankly I'm against it myself.

 

My solution is simple. Initiates do not have access to clantech.

 

And

 

Knock it off with the relentless clantech weapons. I think the last BP sold in the market was the angstrum. Or Nami Solo?

 

[Archeyef]

My solution is simple. Initiates do not have access to clantech.

 

And

 

Knock it off with the relentless clantech weapons. I think the last BP sold in the market was the angstrum. Or Nami Solo?

 

 

Your solution is simple but what it entails for leaders of large clans is tedious. It just creates another problem:

 

 

But then it becomes an issue of keeping track of how long every new member has been in, and then going through the memberlist and manually raising their rank. And even that won't work in the long run, you'll still have clanhoppers, they'll just be slower. Which would probably compound the problem, because you'll have clan leaders thinking "Oh, we have enough members, let's upgrade our clan tier" and suddenly they're down however many players in a tier in which they are now underpopulated for.

 

 

I agree about the clantech though, they really need to slow it down and/or stop making the research times so damn long. I know you're doing it as a purchase incentive, but don't punish us THAT MUCH for not buying with plat, DE. That's ridiculous. Especially with the frames.

[SSC-47]

It is entirely possible that DE will implement a fix for this in U14 with the player ships and foundry revamp the Tenno weapons might be made more available as they could allow the ship to a limited extent to function as it's own mini-dojo with research and to do so without rendering the dojo research completely meaningless.

[DirkDeadeye]

Your solution is simple but what it entails for leaders of large clans is tedious. It just creates another problem:

 

 

 

 

I agree about the clantech though, they really need to slow it down and/or stop making the research times so damn long. I know you're doing it as a purchase incentive, but don't punish us THAT MUCH for not buying with plat, DE. That's ridiculous. Especially with the frames.

 

It's not that hard to keep track. Hell I help run one of the top WoW guilds on my server..and that's a lot of the same. Plus, a lot of organization within the game, montioring class chats, educating people. IF you're not up to task to do something this simple, might want to reconsider doing it.

[Archeyef]

It's not that hard to keep track. Hell I help run one of the top WoW guilds on my server..and that's a lot of the same. Plus, a lot of organization within the game, montioring class chats, educating people. IF you're not up to task to do something this simple, might want to reconsider doing it.

 

Alright. So maybe it's not that hard to keep track. Or may not be when DE reworks the clan management a bit more (weren't they gonna do some of that in this update?). A rank filter would definitely speed up the process, too. The issue I had wasn't so much keeping track as it was scrolling through the list of members to find a specific name. Or to look at the membership lengths. I don't have a large clan (shadow tier) but I can see how scrolling through an endless list of names can be incredibly annoying. Even if you are up to the task. So, yeah. Add a rank filter to make it more feasible.

 

I'm not entirely against withholding privileges from new members either, but I don't think it should be enforced by DE. Add it as a toggle for the clan leaders to manage, and I'd have no complaints about it.

 

If it hasn't become glaringly obvious (and a bit repetitive) by now, I prefer that if DE implement measures to prevent clanhopping, the clans should have the final say in whether they make use of it. Absolutely removing the option for clans to dictate their member's privileges, to any degree, is just wrong in my opinion. A hybrid of clan management and system implementation is best.

 

Either way, it's not just as simple as withholding lab use from initiates. There's a little more to it, but it's totally doable for DE. What they need to do is provide the tools for the clans to handle the problem effectively, not just ban an entire membership tier from accessing what is at least one of the main points of dojos, without the say of the clans.

[DirkDeadeye]

That's what I was suggesting under privileges in the warlord menu you can customize what ranks are entitled to. All you have to do is add a clan tech tick there. If you want initiates to have access just tick the box otherwise you wait till their probation is over and you promote them. Same as usual for any clan.

Also another idea is if clan members do not have said access they would have to pay a tax at the purchase same mechanic exists in the trading post. That would be acceptable.

Edited June 27, 2014 by DirkDeadeye

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

I just wish we could rush Clan weapons with platinum. 3 days for an OK weapon is annoying after a while

[Otakuwolf]

There is also the problem of the mastery points.

If all the new weapons are platinum or clantech locked that means that unless you join a clan or pay with real money you cannot proceed beyoind a certain point of the mastery ladder because to get exp points you need weapons, no weapons no exp.

 

Besides, i may understand DE wants to encourage socialization and clans growth but one thing is "encourage" people to do so, another thing is "force" them to.

Even if meeting new people and stuff is a good thing it still doesen't feel as good when you are "forced" to do it, i am in a nice clan myself and we do void runs and stuff like that so i don't have this problem, but there are many players i know that do and they are getting more and more frustrated seeing at every update the game becomes less and less friendly for them who prefer to play solo or with precise people or anyway don't feel like joining/making a clan "just for the new weapons and stuff", some of those are even planning to leave to play other games or have done so already too because of this.

 

And i agree with OP:

Making more and more clantech based weapons is basically changing the purpouse of the clans themselves from something about extra features and socialization, to something players are forced to join or do to can build new weapons if they want to progress on the ranking just for the sake of it.

 

And on final thought, this is a Co-op game but why is there a "solo" option too then ? If the game gives an option to the players this should be a viable one, otherwise is worthless.

 

To me, with every update they should include two features: A clantech and a non-clantech, so people in the clans will have the "extra" toy, but those who are not will still get something which is not a middlefinger just because of theyr playstyle.

[SirAuron]

Clan Tech is rubbish now that rarely delivers. All it doing is encouraging joining and quitting for the sake of clan tech. Even if they impose a 3 day ban from joining other clans upon quitting, people shall still do it anyway.

 

Clan Tech is suppose to produce and unique and powerful weapons. that is the point of research and development. It's also to obtain enemy weapons and you know how powerful they are...Ogris or example.

 

But these days clan tech has been subpar as they say. And they are literally tossing anything in clan tech, any trash, w/o any thought. Clan tech use to mean something. Now it means rubbish for a high price.

 

So are them claws all looks and no bite?

[RealPandemonium]

3 days for an OK weapon is annoying after a while

God forbid, although having another reason to support DE that isn't pay2win is a good thing, so I support having the option to rush clan tech.  

Edited June 27, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Archeyef]

There is also the problem of the mastery points.

If all the new weapons are platinum or clantech locked that means that unless you join a clan or pay with real money you cannot proceed beyoind a certain point of the mastery ladder because to get exp points you need weapons, no weapons no exp.

 

And i agree with OP:

Making more and more clantech based weapons is basically changing the purpouse of the clans themselves from something about extra features and socialization, to something players are forced to join or do to can build new weapons if they want to progress on the ranking just for the sake of it.

 

And on final thought, this is a Co-op game but why is there a "solo" option too then ? If the game gives an option to the players this should be a viable one, otherwise is worthless.

 

To me, with every update they should include two features: A clantech and a non-clantech, so people in the clans will have the "extra" toy, but those who are not will still get something which is not a middlefinger just because of theyr playstyle.

 

Mastery points have already been brought up. And adding a clantech and non-clantech will not fix this unless they are made truly exclusive ("you're in a clan so you can't build this"), and if they are then people will complain about exclusives. Unless they are exactly the same in every respect. And if that's the case then there's no need to add the clantech.