Is Modding A Customization Process Or Optimization Process?

[Niryco]

Although I recently posted a thread on that fact that modding is limited and inhibits fun, i want to ask the general community in the forums what is modding to you?

 

Is modding right now as it stands a fully drawn out and limitless customization process for players to have unique weapons/warframe/sentinels/melee or is it simply an optimization process which simply draws out the full extent of a particular stat till it is overpowered or over kill.

 

If you chose the former, what makes up for a unique weapons/warframe/sentinels/melee and is there any way for DE to improve the customization process of modding within the game?

 

Also in your opinion if you chose the latter, what is limiting modding from being a customization + creative process rather than an optimization process?

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jacate

[Doughalo2]

a tech tree should be used for damage and modding (a few less slots) for utility or somefin

[Niryco]

a tech tree should be used for damage and modding (a few less slots) for utility or somefin

so with your suggestion, i suppose you chose the latter?

[Doughalo2]

Well I find it more fun to play low level content with reload time etc to make a weapon really fast and fun to use. But if im farming T4 survival for R5 cores :3 I build for boring killing as fast as possible. So both.

[Shion963]

Mostly Optimisation, IMHO.

 

I do customise for fun, but we all know that a Reflex Guarding, Reflecting Nekros would do less in a session than a Desecrating one.

[Doughalo2]

Oh but hell no this current system does not IN THE SLIGHTEST make builds between people unique!! just had to speak my mind on that one. 

[Rorgal_Sina]

To me it's a customization, although most players use it the other way.

 

Sad to say most of my builds aren't efficient, like my Gorgon Wraith: Crowd Control. It frequently procs blast and electric, stunning and causing crowd damage with either proc. That along with it's big magazine can keep a crowd of 30 on its knees until you have to reload. Hardly the best dps, but fun and somewhat helpful.

 

My Braton goes for a more versatile goal, with enough punch through to decimate crowds and enough crit chance to finish a heavy fast. It's also an all-round flesh killer, but weaker against others.

[Naftal]

Modding currently includes both the progression system and customization of weapons and frames, which really destroys the customization part of it.

[Niryco]

Mostly Optimisation, IMHO.

 

I do customise for fun, but we all know that a Reflex Guarding, Reflecting Nekros would do less in a session than a Desecrating one.

hahhahah that is actually an "optimized" build for conclave, just add damage deflecting shots in melee so they would lose instantly.

 

Oh but hell no this current system does not IN THE SLIGHTEST make builds between people unique!! just had to speak my mind on that one. 

Well I find it more fun to play low level content with reload time etc to make a weapon really fast and fun to use. But if im farming T4 survival for R5 cores :3 I build for boring killing as fast as possible. So both.

i agree to an extent it is both but as it stands which side does it devote itself to more in general?

 

To me it's a customization, although most players use it the other way.

 

Sad to say most of my builds aren't efficient, like my Gorgon Wraith: Crowd Control. It frequently procs blast and electric, stunning and causing crowd damage with either proc. That along with it's big magazine can keep a crowd of 30 on its knees until you have to reload. Hardly the best dps, but fun and somewhat helpful.

 

My Braton goes for a more versatile goal, with enough punch through to decimate crowds and enough crit chance to finish a heavy fast. It's also an all-round flesh killer, but weaker against others.

i see, so in your opinion a unique item is something that is not optimized? Also can the system be further improved? if so how?

[Doughalo2]

I beleive it mostly the latter, the sad truth :(

[Niryco]

Modding currently includes both the progression system and customization of weapons and frames, which really destroys the customization part of it.

What progression system, are you referring to mastery ranks or ranking of weapons to 30?

[Naftal]

What progression system, are you referring to mastery ranks or ranking of weapons to 30?

I'm referring to improving your frame/weapon. Meaning more damage, hp, etc. and not real customization.

[Inquisitioner]

Modding to be unique or custom? You guys make me laugh.

[Valfunde]

Funny you talk about a tech tree for the weapons.

Mods did not exist prior to U7 and the progression was made through tech trees.

[Thelonious]

What progression system, are you referring to mastery ranks or ranking of weapons to 30?

 

Just increasing your damage, in order to be able to face higher-level enemies, can take half your mod slots.

 

The higher level you go, the less agency you have customization-wise, since most of your mod slots will be dedicated to damage.

Base damage increase at first (multishot, serration, heavy caliber).

And then past a certain point, the obligation to make use of elemental weaknesses (2 to 4 more mod slots only for that).

 

Because anything else would absolutly murder your ttk, leaving you horribly at a disadvantage against the hordes of enemies we usually face: the slower you kill, the more they potentially damage you, whatever defensive mechanism you have. 

 

That's what the whole combat system is all about imho: kill them before they kill you.

 

That doesn't leave much room for "customization" of any kind.

[Niryco]

Just increasing your damage, in order to be able to face higher-level enemies, can take half your mod slots.

 

The higher level you go, the less agency you have customization-wise, since most of your mod slots will be dedicated to damage.

Base damage increase at first (multishot, serration, heavy caliber).

And then past a certain point, the obligation to make use of elemental weaknesses (2 to 4 more mod slots only for that).

 

Because anything else would absolutly murder your ttk, leaving you horribly at a disadvantage against the hordes of enemies we usually face: the slower you kill, the more they potentially damage you, whatever defensive mechanism you have. 

 

That's what the whole combat system is all about imho: kill them before they kill you.

 

That doesn't leave much room for "customization" of any kind.

I wholeheartedly agree with what you say.

 

Funny you talk about a tech tree for the weapons.

Mods did not exist prior to U7 and the progression was made through tech trees.

well people just used to keep increasing their strength because their overall strength potential had no cap. However that does not mean you couldn't implement a total say 75% efficiency cap like what mods do now even if their total efficiency value went over 100%.

 

Modding to be unique or custom? You guys make me laugh.

how so does it make you laugh? It makes me laugh that you are laughing with a reason that can be hardly comprehended.

[OnnaJReverT]

Just increasing your damage, in order to be able to face higher-level enemies, can take half your mod slots.

 

The higher level you go, the less agency you have customization-wise, since most of your mod slots will be dedicated to damage.

Base damage increase at first (multishot, serration, heavy caliber).

And then past a certain point, the obligation to make use of elemental weaknesses (2 to 4 more mod slots only for that).

 

Because anything else would absolutly murder your ttk, leaving you horribly at a disadvantage against the hordes of enemies we usually face: the slower you kill, the more they potentially damage you, whatever defensive mechanism you have. 

 

That's what the whole combat system is all about imho: kill them before they kill you.

 

That doesn't leave much room for "customization" of any kind.

this is quite right, and that is what makes me dislike the mod-system (not to speak of "obligatory" 10-ranks that require ridiculous amounts of cores to upgrade)

 

my idea would be to add the base-damage into the weapon rank (aka a rank 30 weapon gets equivalent damage to rnk 10 serration) so that's one modslot down already, and would also take the burden of farming the damage-mods or go cry in a corner from earth upward

[bejuizb]

Well, its all about min/max builds in this game atm

 

We don't get benefits for customization, optimization on the other hand gives you a LOT more benefits. Which really is a bummer. If the game didn't focus so much on mods being used to essentially create a progression system for weapons, we'd have a lot more fun and versatile builds. For example, you could add the Heavy Caliber mod to a rifle to make it spray bullets more, effectively making it into a high fire rate shotgun/rifle hybrid weapon, instead of it just giving you 100%+ more damage. 

 

If we could truly mod weapons to our own style, you'd see a lot more combinations out there apart from the usual Penta, Brakk, Soma, Dakra Prime, Ichors, and other "meta" weapons.

Edited June 27, 2014 by bejuizb

[bejuizb]

my idea would be to add the base-damage into the weapon rank (aka a rank 30 weapon gets equivalent damage to rnk 10 serration) so that's one modslot down already, and would also take the burden of farming the damage-mods or go cry in a corner from earth upward

[neKroMancer]

Optimization rules as long as we have pure stat mods (damage, shield capacity, power duration/strength mods).

The problem with the current system is that DE tries to use mod as a progression system. We can level any gun to 30 within a few hours but it takes a lot more investment to upgrade your mod to max rank (honestly, I don't even bother trying to max my serration since the return is too little compared to credit and core invested).

However, how many mods should be considered 'customization'?

- most mods don't alter the behavior of the weapon.

- most mods deal with direct statistics decrease/increase.

To be honest, customization mods in the game are very limited in number and most of them aren't really good. Hush, reflection, rage, and many channeling mods are what I consider true customization since they change how we play. Other mods like reload mod, clip size mod, max ammo mod aren't really change how you play since most of them involve in the process of squeeze maximum damage output.

Sadly, I doubt that DE will see the flaw in this design since it's been a glaring issue since the first week of U7. And without mods as progression tool, DE will have to find another mechanism to replace it. A hard task to do right, imo.

[TisEric]

Obviously this game values optimizing your build for pure damage over anything else.

Customizing? Fun builds? Gimmick Builds? if you want to do content past Earth then no you cannot deviate.

 

I for months have said pure damage and defense mods just need to be removed.

They do nothing , we might as well not have them and make every enemy that much weaker or less bullet spongy.

 

 

But that ain't happening , DE shows no inclination to support fun stuff or remove pointless mechanics like stamina which only slow the game down while adding no depth.

Edited June 27, 2014 by TisEric

[BoneMarksman]

Although I recently posted a thread on that fact that modding is limited and inhibits fun, i want to ask the general community in the forums what is modding to you?

 

Is modding right now as it stands a fully drawn out and limitless customization process for players to have unique weapons/warframe/sentinels/melee or is it simply an optimization process which simply draws out the full extent of a particular stat till it is overpowered or over kill.

 

If you chose the former, what makes up for a unique weapons/warframe/sentinels/melee and is there any way for DE to improve the customization process of modding within the game?

 

Also in your opinion if you chose the latter, what is limiting modding from being a customization + creative process rather than an optimization process?

 

For me its more of a optimization process than anything, but if there were visual changes to the weapon after applying the mods, say a silencer, extended magazine, elemental infusions into the weapon, similar to Mass Effect 3. I would have a good balance between both aspects in order to make my builds more unique and less similar to the rest of the players.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

@ OP

Optimization for sure, not customization. Will the focus system allow us to customize our weapons or will things remain as they are.

[Niryco]

@ OP

Optimization for sure, not customization. Will the focus system allow us to customize our weapons or will things remain as they are.

I hoe customize, but if DE believes there needs to be balance, then i believe we have yet another optimization system for sure.

[Zerrien]

Optimization, for sure.