Is Modding A Customization Process Or Optimization Process?

[Niryco]

Optimization, for sure.

so how to improve it?

[RancidTurnip1603]

Really depends on how many abilities I'm running.

 

If I'm only running 1 or 2 optimization is the way to go because I both have the mod slots and I don't have to worry about detracting from my other abilities.

 

However if I'm running 3 or 4 I usually focus on more customized builds so I can effectively use each ability in a way that suits my style.

 

I don't think DE needs to fix the mods, they just need to add enough utility to some certain abilities to make them worth using. Which they already said they were working on.

 

Like if they made Nova's Null star reduce/block/absorb damage depending on how many orbs you had flying around, there'd be a reason to build her for something other than optimization. Though, bad example because people would just build minimum range and maximum duration anyway, but hopefully you get the idea.

 

Oh, and in the case of weapons, unless I'm using them for utility like a melee with lifestrike, optimization all the way.

Edited June 27, 2014 by RancidTurnip1603

[CandyDragon]

You either Optimize or you make a useless gun.

 

There are not many reasons to try making some beautiful snowflake of a gun.

 

Wow you reload faster and waste 2x more ammo trying to kill the same guy.

Wow you do more status but to the point that the status effect is too weak to matter.

Wow you have more ammo to not kill the target.

 

They honestly need to have some form of utility slot aside from the normal mod slots.

Things like ammo count, reload speed, magazine size should fall into that category.

 

Basically you are just mixing iterations of a Shibe reaction. 

Customization should be cosmetic at best though. No one is going to recognize your "strategy" for what it is if it is a waste of time.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Nariala

[RancidTurnip1603]

Customization should be cosmetic at best though. No one is going to recognize your "strategy" for what it is if it is a waste of time.

Nobody will notice but me, and I'll feel all warm and fuzzy when my strategy keeps me alive while other players are being downed.

[Zerrien]

so how to improve it?

 

Start over.

 

But they can't do that, because people paid for their mods with platinum, and there'll be a big outcry if Serration is nerfed 1% after someone had paid 300plat for it.

[CandyDragon]

Nobody will notice but me, and I'll feel all warm and fuzzy when my strategy keeps me alive while other players are being downed.

being unable to aid them the entire time and becoming a detriment the entire while.

 

Being unique is nice, but doing it for the sake of doing it is a mistake.

[Niryco]

being unable to aid them the entire time and becoming a detriment the entire while.

 

Being unique is nice, but doing it for the sake of doing it is a mistake.

why so?

[CandyDragon]

why so?

Well as he seemed to agree with, he has sacrificed killing potential to be "strategic"

Where simply killing large numbers of enemies faster would have helped his team to start with by removing the threat.

Instead he opted to have whatever he chose instead and sacrificed actually contributing. Causing the other three players to have to carry his weight as he wasn't doing anything to help with the threat.

 

This is the core problem with the odd mods that sacrifice DPS potential for "more ammo" or "Moar reload"

They simply make you into a more selfish player the higher up you go. You can't contribute so you expect others to carry you.

The harder the mobs get, the worse off you are.

[Niryco]

Well as he seemed to agree with, he has sacrificed killing potential to be "strategic"

Where simply killing large numbers of enemies faster would have helped his team to start with by removing the threat.

Instead he opted to have whatever he chose instead and sacrificed actually contributing. Causing the other three players to have to carry his weight as he wasn't doing anything to help with the threat.

 

This is the core problem with the odd mods that sacrifice DPS potential for "more ammo" or "Moar reload"

They simply make you into a more selfish player the higher up you go. You can't contribute so you expect others to carry you.

The harder the mobs get, the worse off you are.

the worse off you are or the team is?

[Methanoid]

warframe weapons are about Optimization, weapons in ME3-MP are imho about modification.

[Phatose]

Customization and optimization are the same thing.  What would a customization that doesn't actually increase your effectiveness be?  Cosmetic.

[SV1231]

Modding is what separates the noobs from the veterans. 

A noob can have the same gear as a veteran player, but it will never be as strong because of their lack of mods and forma. 

[Cabadath5]

The latter.

 

I doubt it will change until they release a mods 3.0.

At this point even if they remove +damage and +health/shields mods and made them scale with frame/weapon level(which I doubt will happen after hearing about the plan of adding things such as a more common version of serration that new players will easily get), people will still go for damage on both abilities and weapons.

 

30% clip size will never compare to to adding more damage to a weapon.

 

Here are a few great suggestions regarding this topic: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/137875-a-complete-rework-of-the-foundation-of-warframe/

Edited June 27, 2014 by Cabadath5

[Sasquatchias]

Start over.

 

But they can't do that, because people paid for their mods with platinum, and there'll be a big outcry if Serration is nerfed 1% after someone had paid 300plat for it.

 

Perhaps DE could hand out more Legendary Cores, or perhaps a fair amount of plat (like maybe 200, 225)?

 

If they do decide to do that then they would have to pay/give out for only 1 so that people don't exploit (does it count as an exploit?) it like they did with the Steel Charge.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Sasquatch180

[SirSlayer]

The sort of mods released so far make it an optimisation process.

Very few frames should deviate from the standard mod layout.

 

For a more customisational game check eve online "fitting".

[Niryco]

The sort of mods released so far make it an optimisation process.

Very few frames should deviate from the standard mod layout.

 

For a more customisational game check eve online "fitting".

Why so very few frames deviate? If they don't wouldn't they all be the same?

[Paprika]

I find few people that actually like the mod 2.0 system. The problems are far and many. Of course, I don't speak for everyone, and I'm not looking to upset people, but I just don't see how this current setup is conducive to specialization and unique gameplay.

 

The problems that bother me the most are as follows:

 

- Because of the simplistic nature of the upgrades, how each of them are plain vanilla stat boost upgrades means that the diversity of mods is lost. The The stat-boost nature of the mods means that it all really is an optimization process. 

 

- The necessary mods like vitality take up spaces in the same area as warm coat. If the fundamental stat boost mods were put on an upgrade palette separate from the behavioral mods like handspring and warm coat, we may have some diversity develop. The stat-based nature of mods, while not helping create diversity, does not preclude it when implemented well. If these two types were separated, the mods affecting in-game mechanics and warframe reactions could be customized independent of the fundamental stat mods. This isolation of the fundamental stats allows for min-maxing to occur while removing the elements that currently discourage the usage of Diamond Skin and the like.

 

- Upgrades are cash based and the efficacy of fusion cores is logarithmic. I find that quite few veterans have maxed out their redirection. I think a shift from cash-based leveling to stack-based leveling may be the best way to go. Credits really aren't in the game for much else. I find it silly that that credit farming occurs not for the sake of acquiring warframe booty, but rather for the sake of leveling up mods. 

 

- In PvE games like diablo, the drops of a particular location help in fighting enemies of that particular location. Because the mods are split between enemy types and enemy levels, there is no justice in the mod distributions. Also there is only a minimal passive stat boosts as you level up. The players are at the mercy of mod drops. DE knows this is an issue, but I don't see "give the new players th basic mods" as a solution because of how dependent we are in this game on min-maxing. There is no room for succeeding by virtue of being clever. That, of course, is another story for another time.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Paprika

[SirSlayer]

Why so very few frames deviate? If they don't wouldn't they all be the same?

Because for most frames there is a cookie cutter build.

Only a few like reverse-nova are okay off without it.

[Shion963]

The sort of mods released so far make it an optimisation process.

Very few frames should deviate from the standard mod layout.

 

Why so very few frames deviate? If they don't wouldn't they all be the same?

 

I take it as: The mods currently available favours min-maxed builds rather than reward creative play. Hence why there's widely considered only a few 'viable' build for every equipment (and even then some equipment are considered trash, etc) if you decide to go past a certain level in the game. 

 

Only way I can think of rewarding custom builds is to remove/penalise progression mods, or separate progression from modding. And both are quite serious changes which also involves rebalancing enemy levels.