Dragazer Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) As most of you already know there has been changes to the AI to react to invisibility, smoke screen, and radial blind. I do like most of the changes, enemies should be able to detect where you if you fire with a weapon that isn't silent, should be able to know if they are being melee attacked and be aware of your presence if you bump into them. The only two problems I have the changes is with silent weapons and the stealth damage multipliers. First off though firing a silent weapon doesn't alert the enemies, but hitting an enemy will alert that enemy. That isn't bad by itself, silent or not enemies should be able to react to being shot at. The problem is the enemy can track you down to your exact location. If a weapon is silent the enemy should not know where it came from. They should be able to react to it but not pinpoint your location if you are using a silent weapon. Secondly to the stealth damage multipliers. I really think that no matter what, if you are touching them or not you should always get the melee dmg boost from the abilities. Weapons like fists and daggers will make the stealth bonuses useless because you will always be in contact with the enemy. This mechanic also defeats the purpose of melee 2.0. If you have to stop your combo so you can get the stealth dmg boost again you might as well just bring charged attacks back, because combos aren't going to work well with this new change. Other then those two problems, I think the AI changes are great TL;DR: Enemies shouldn't be able to pinpoint your location after being hit with silent weapons and the stealth dmg boosters should apply whether or not you are in contact with the enemies. Thoughts on this? Edited June 27, 2014 by Dragazer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marthrym Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Wait, enemies can pinpoint your location EVEN when you use silent weapons? Then this should change, because it doesn't make any sense.^^' Losing the stealth bonus as soon as you get close and hit with melee weapon is a bit harsh IMHO. Kinda defeats the purpose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerohades Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Yes they find you and even follow you when you fire at them with silent guns (tried with bow and bow with silence mod just to be sure.) And sometimes they even finds you when you are not il line of view or behind doors... Perhaps tenno's need to take a shower ? Zerohades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Agreed on all points. I would like a developer to comment on this at some point, since this change was rolled out without any prior discussion or warning and largely guts a core mechanic of loki and ash builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Well, for example, if someone threw a rock and hit me on my back, I would naturally turn around - even though the projectile was silent. If there is only one person behind me when I turned around, and he was clearly visible, I would know his exact location instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolake Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Now you get instakilled by grenades in T4 if you are invis Edited June 27, 2014 by Monolake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Well, for example, if someone threw a rock and hit me on my back, I would naturally turn around - even though the projectile was silent. If there is only one person behind me when I turned around, and he was clearly visible, I would know his exact location instantly. And when you turn around and the person is invisible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Well after being in war for 10,000 years even the dumb grineer can guess about where theyre being shot from when shot at That aside i think the stealth thing is fine with silent weapons If distant silent weapons kept the old ways of never being detected then there wouldnt really be much point in the change in the end... As for melee i dont quite understand where youre going with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragazer Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Well after being in war for 10,000 years even the dumb grineer can guess about where theyre being shot from when shot at That aside i think the stealth thing is fine with silent weapons If distant silent weapons kept the old ways of never being detected then there wouldnt really be much point in the change in the end... As for melee i dont quite understand where youre going with it For silent weapons it does make a difference. Before the change it didn't matter if you used a silenced weapon or not all sounds you made were muffled. Now silent weapons have a use even for frames with cloaking abilities. I'm not saying they should not detect you. I'm saying they should be aware of your presence but not be able to pinpoint your location with a silent weapon while cloaked when being shot at. As for melee, ever since the change, stealth dmg multipliers don't work when in physical contact with the enemy, therefore weapons with short range such as the fists and daggers will not get any dmg boost because using them will almost always put you in contact with the enemy. This change messes up melee 2.0 as you might know the combos are always pushing you forward therefore to get the dmg boost you have to stop the combo and back up stopping the flow. For melee I'm all in for the enemies knowing you're there while hitting them, but the steath dmg should stay no matter what while cloaked Edited June 28, 2014 by Dragazer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 For silent weapons it does make a difference. Before the change it didn't matter if you used a silenced weapon or not all sounds you made were muffled. Now silent weapons have a use even for frames with cloaking abilities. I'm not saying they should not detect you. I'm saying they should be aware of your presence but not be able to pinpoint your location with a silent weapon while cloaked when being shot at. As for melee, ever since the change, stealth dmg multipliers don't work when in physical contact with the enemy, therefore weapons with short range such as the fists and daggers will not get any dmg boost because using them will almost always put you in contact with the enemy. This change messes up melee 2.0 as you might know the combos are always pushing you forward therefore to get the dmg boost you have to stop the combo and back up stopping the flow. For melee I'm all in for the enemies knowing you're there while hitting them but the steath dmg should stay no matter what while cloaked Can you confirm that melee part? It could have something to do with being close to an enemy making you detectable and no longer stealthed Not sure if that would be a bug or intended feature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragazer Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 Can you confirm that melee part? It could have something to do with being close to an enemy making you detectable and no longer stealthed Not sure if that would be a bug or intended feature Yes I can here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkJayn Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 the being spotted with silent weapons sounds like a bug, the no stealth melee dmg boost if you run into enemies makes sense, infact, i like it, makes stealthing to kill take some skill now as you cant just charge around blindly and if your having difficulty with melee range im pretty sure theres a mod to fix that ... laters Monk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Yes I can here: Bo prime? Seems about right with 4x damage Seriously though That needs to be fixed I have no problem with enemies finding you after being shot though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 And when you turn around and the person is invisible? I'd run for the alarm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragazer Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 I'd run for the alarm. I agree this would be a lot better than the enemy knowing your exact location while cloaked with a silent weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigcc Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Yeah I also think the new mechanics for stealth needs a few more tweaks. It makes no sense that enemies can track down silent weapons and the multiplier changes really cripples some weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayzemet Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 This totally killed my excaliber and loki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marthrym Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I'd run for the alarm. Well, enemies already do that a lot, so it wouldn't be hard to make it happen I guess.^^ Would be tedious though... All that hacking... >< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Just keep using ze ogris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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