For The Upcoming Valkyr Changes.

[Vanhline]

these are just a few ideas to help valkyr out with her changes coming in U14.

 

i want to talk about two abilities, hysteria and warcry.

 

first,

hysteria,

the upcoming combo stance rework on her looks outstanding, im vary excited. but, in the interest of balancing her and making her actually fun to use i have a few ideas. first of all the invincibility needs to go. i might get some hate for saying that but its not fun or challenging to just 'press 4' and be unkillable for a minute or more. i think that hysteria needs a higher quality life tap combined with an additional mitigation check, not more armor but another layer of armor, the strength of both being relative to power strength.

 

additionally, the strength of the ability needs to not be contingent on the mods of your melee weapon. or at least not with crit stats. the strength of her hysteria needs to be balanced with power strength as such to where you can use any melee weapon you want without killing the damage of hysteria.

 

lastly, i think that hysteria would make a good 'continuous' ability. but rather then costing energy when active, it should cost health when active. this together with the life tap would allow you to stay in hysteria for as long as you wanted but with a looming cost vs reward.

 

 

second,

warcry,

since melee 2.0 this ability as been in just as much ruin as hysteria. the slow in near useless, the one off shot vs the duration is vary lop sided. the slow should either fallow her like a surrounding aura or stick to an area on the ground but either way would be active for the full duration of the ability. also, if the effect of hysteria stays duration based then war crys duration should be changed to match that of hysterias. 

 

lastly, the ability essentially is a straight increase to melee damage by boosting attack speed. however this boost in attack speed now that timing matters with melee 2.0 can be as much a hindrance as a blessing allot of the time. to alleviate this i would recommend that the boost in attack speed should be changed to a boost in melee damage. this would offer the same potential damage bonuses as before but without messing with peoples combo timings. 

[Erelas]

Whelp, I have no qualms here.  Agreed and.../signed.  

[Azawarau]

The animations added to Hysteria will probably lower Valkyrs DPS potential by a ton if DE treats it like th rest of melee 2.0

 

Without elemental CC or attack AoE its really not useful from what i can see but whoi knows

 

As for warcry

 

Again

 

Combos right now are better as E spam rather than actual combos damage wise sadly so unless thts fixed it wont matter

 

The other thing is adding straight damage would be a nerf to Valkyr surprisingly

 

With speed shell end up with the same DPS but shell proc twice as often

 

Electric and Viral and Blast and such wouldnt be near as effective

 

I havnt had trouble landing combos myself with warcry

 

Youve just gotta get used to inputting in a different way and much faster

[Vanhline]

The animations added to Hysteria will probably lower Valkyrs DPS potential by a ton if DE treats it like th rest of melee 2.0

 

Without elemental CC or attack AoE its really not useful from what i can see but whoi knows

 

As for warcry

 

Again

 

Combos right now are better as E spam rather than actual combos damage wise sadly so unless thts fixed it wont matter

 

The other thing is adding straight damage would be a nerf to Valkyr surprisingly

 

With speed shell end up with the same DPS but shell proc twice as often

 

Electric and Viral and Blast and such wouldnt be near as effective

 

I havnt had trouble landing combos myself with warcry

 

Youve just gotta get used to inputting in a different way and much faster

 

they already stated in one of their streams that her hysteria would be among the strongest form of melee combat in the game.

 

i have no doubt that they will pull this off and make the damage output more then sufficient. 

 

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my goal here is not about her would-be damage output. its about other mechanics, mostly surrounding the cost/source of damage on her ult. making her ults damage dependent on the melee weapons your using severely limits the options the player has access to and this above all else needs to be done away with. you should not HAVE to use the ichor/zoren to be able to do damage in her ult. just make the ults damage dependent on power strength alone, there is no reason not to.

 

also, in her current and future state, at least to the best of what they've shown us, she brings nothing to the table in terms of team play. by adjusting warcrys slow to be an aura that fallows or a ground effect at the point where it was cast would allow her to have some effect on the flow of battle to aid her team.

[Azawarau]

they already stated in one of their streams that her hysteria would be among the strongest form of melee combat in the game.

 

i have no doubt that they will pull this off and make the damage output more then sufficient. 

 

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my goal here is not about her would-be damage output. its about other mechanics, mostly surrounding the cost/source of damage on her ult. making her ults damage dependent on the melee weapons your using severely limits the options the player has access to and this above all else needs to be done away with. you should not HAVE to use the ichor/zoren to be able to do damage in her ult. just make the ults damage dependent on power strength alone, there is no reason not to.

 

also, in her current and future state, at least to the best of what they've shown us, she brings nothing to the table in terms of team play. by adjusting warcrys slow to be an aura that fallows or a ground effect at the point where it was cast would allow her to have some effect on the flow of battle to aid her team.

As long as Hysteria doesnt get weaker its a step up

 

Valkyr is effectively playing the role of tank

 

If you see a wave of enemies you can take them head on while the team stays back

 

Shes also perfect for revivals and possibly buffing frosts shields

 

If shes played as a melee frame shes perfect

 

As a gunner shell fall short

[Kuva_Kebab]

second,

warcry,

since melee 2.0 this ability as been in just as much ruin as hysteria. the slow in near useless, the one off shot vs the duration is vary lop sided. the slow should either fallow her like a surrounding aura or stick to an area on the ground but either way would be active for the full duration of the ability. also, if the effect of hysteria stays duration based then war crys duration should be changed to match that of hysterias. 

 

You entirely skipped over the armour buff it grants. Also, why does the slow matter? It doesn't help anyone anyway, you'll dispatch all the slowed mobs before the duration of the slow can even wear out.

Also, in terms of melee 2.0, aside from stances increasing damage, (Crimson Dervish for the first 3 strike of a combo, etc.), melee 2.0 has not increased effectiveness in combat... at all, really. It's basically just "Get this and look cool".

 

I'm sure DE already know what they want to do to Valkyr, so threads about it probably won't have their ideas applied to said change, just wait and see what happens.

[(PSN)sniper23491]

these are just a few ideas to help valkyr out with her changes coming in U14.

 

i want to talk about two abilities, hysteria and warcry.

 

first,

hysteria,

the upcoming combo stance rework on her looks outstanding, im vary excited. but, in the interest of balancing her and making her actually fun to use i have a few ideas. first of all the invincibility needs to go. i might get some hate for saying that but its not fun or challenging to just 'press 4' and be unkillable for a minute or more. i think that hysteria needs a higher quality life tap combined with an additional mitigation check, not more armor but another layer of armor, the strength of both being relative to power strength.

 

additionally, the strength of the ability needs to not be contingent on the mods of your melee weapon. or at least not with crit stats. the strength of her hysteria needs to be balanced with power strength as such to where you can use any melee weapon you want without killing the damage of hysteria.

 

lastly, i think that hysteria would make a good 'continuous' ability. but rather then costing energy when active, it should cost health when active. this together with the life tap would allow you to stay in hysteria for as long as you wanted but with a looming cost vs reward.

 

 

second,

warcry,

since melee 2.0 this ability as been in just as much ruin as hysteria. the slow in near useless, the one off shot vs the duration is vary lop sided. the slow should either fallow her like a surrounding aura or stick to an area on the ground but either way would be active for the full duration of the ability. also, if the effect of hysteria stays duration based then war crys duration should be changed to match that of hysterias. 

 

lastly, the ability essentially is a straight increase to melee damage by boosting attack speed. however this boost in attack speed now that timing matters with melee 2.0 can be as much a hindrance as a blessing allot of the time. to alleviate this i would recommend that the boost in attack speed should be changed to a boost in melee damage. this would offer the same potential damage bonuses as before but without messing with peoples combo timings. 

even with her high armour she is still squishy. her invincibility es needed if she is to be an exclusively melee character during hysteria. 

 

ps. why are people griping on valkyr's invincibility, am i the only one who recognizes how unbelievably cheap rhino's iron skin is.

[Vanhline]

You entirely skipped over the armour buff it grants. Also, why does the slow matter? It doesn't help anyone anyway, you'll dispatch all the slowed mobs before the duration of the slow can even wear out.

Also, in terms of melee 2.0, aside from stances increasing damage, (Crimson Dervish for the first 3 strike of a combo, etc.), melee 2.0 has not increased effectiveness in combat... at all, really. It's basically just "Get this and look cool".

 

I'm sure DE already know what they want to do to Valkyr, so threads about it probably won't have their ideas applied to said change, just wait and see what happens.

 

first of all they are always making changes, even if they were set in stone for what they are going to do with her in u14 balancing, ideas and feedback should always be constant. 

 

 

second, the "it doesnt help anyone" comment is EXACTLY what im getting at. if they are going to add the slow to warcry then make it mean something. having the constant aura OR an area of effect placed on the ground would give her added team benefit. even if they did her melee damage stuff to utter perfection the simple fact is your whole team could just shoot it all to death before you could close the gab and her melee awesomeness becomes completely meaningless. this slow would allow her to create added pressure in areas if tweaked slightly in one of the ways im suggesting.

[Vanhline]

even with her high armour she is still squishy. her invincibility es needed if she is to be an exclusively melee character during hysteria. 

 

ps. why are people griping on valkyr's invincibility, am i the only one who recognizes how unbelievably cheap rhino's iron skin is.

 

im not sure what your talking about, i dont even use the current hysteria in my build and find her incredibly durable. if they toned up the life-tap to be more on par with life strike and then added an extra layer of mitigation she would be incredibly difficult to kill without having the face rolling-game breaking invincibility. 

[Azawarau]

even with her high armour she is still squishy. her invincibility es needed if she is to be an exclusively melee character during hysteria. 

 

ps. why are people griping on valkyr's invincibility, am i the only one who recognizes how unbelievably cheap rhino's iron skin is.

Squishy?

 

Whats your definition of squishy?

[Kuva_Kebab]

second, the "it doesnt help anyone" comment is EXACTLY what im getting at. if they are going to add the slow to warcry then make it mean something. having the constant aura OR an area of effect placed on the ground would give her added team benefit.

 

You must have skipped the part where I said:

 

you'll dispatch all the slowed mobs before the duration of the slow can even wear out.

 

Besides, it's just not needed, at all.

[Kuva_Kebab]

ps. why are people griping on valkyr's invincibility, am i the only one who recognizes how unbelievably cheap rhino's iron skin is.

 

Because people stopped trying and caring when it comes to Rhino.

[Vanhline]

 

You must have skipped the part where I said:

 

 

Besides, it's just not needed, at all.

 

 

you must have skipped the part where i said:

 

 if they are going to add the slow to warcry then make it mean something. 

 

hence one of the many points im making in my post. the ability right now is useless, you don't need extra armor because you can just go invincible, the extra attack speed is horrible cause you just run around throwing off the timing for other people trying to preform their combos, and the slow is meaningless because its a one off, selecting only the few targets that may be around you and then its gone. the slows effect is even canceled out by the abilities animation, during the time your caught screaming into the air you could have just up and killed the handful of targets that may have been effected. 

 

 

so,

in my OPINION, 

 

the armor, should stay as i believe the invincibility on hysteria should be removed anyway.

 

the speed boost, needs to be changed to a melee damage boost, would allow for the same potential damage increase without screwing over anyones timing.

 

the slow, should be constant throughout the ability in one form or another, either to drop on the ground to help create bottlenecks or to fallow you around to make up for the fact that everyone else can reach out at range when your limited by your hysteria. either of the two would offer assistance to team in many possible forms.

[Kuva_Kebab]

>Calling Warcry useless.

 

So what, you spam 4 on Valkyr? Warcry is her best ability, and it's amazing, I don't understand your problem with an ability that allows the use of your weapon, at increased speed, and essentially makes you invulnerable, while armour & attack buffing any nearby allies.

[Vanhline]

>Calling Warcry useless.

 

So what, you spam 4 on Valkyr? Warcry is her best ability, and it's amazing, I don't understand your problem with an ability that allows the use of your weapon, at increased speed, and essentially makes you invulnerable, while armour & attack buffing any nearby allies.

 

in its current state i dont even use warcry on my bar, the extra armor gives a whopping 8% extra damage reduction, and the attack speed screws with more team mates then it helps.

 

i do have hysteria on my bar but only use it for reviving players in high level content, in its current state the damage output is pathetic. should be better in u14 however. 

[Azawarau]

 

 

 

 

you must have skipped the part where i said:

 

 

hence one of the many points im making in my post. the ability right now is useless, you don't need extra armor because you can just go invincible, the extra attack speed is horrible cause you just run around throwing off the timing for other people trying to preform their combos, and the slow is meaningless because its a one off, selecting only the few targets that may be around you and then its gone. the slows effect is even canceled out by the abilities animation, during the time your caught screaming into the air you could have just up and killed the handful of targets that may have been effected. 

 

 

so,

in my OPINION, 

 

the armor, should stay as i believe the invincibility on hysteria should be removed anyway.

 

the speed boost, needs to be changed to a melee damage boost, would allow for the same potential damage increase without screwing over anyones timing.

 

the slow, should be constant throughout the ability in one form or another, either to drop on the ground to help create bottlenecks or to fallow you around to make up for the fact that everyone else can reach out at range when your limited by your hysteria. either of the two would offer assistance to team in many possible forms.

 

If you really believe that then you should probably go for a damage boost too

 

Without the extra procs it really is a nerf in disguise

 

Either that or use spoiled strike/get used to speeding up combos with warcry

[Vanhline]

If you really believe that then you should probably go for a damage boost too

 

Without the extra procs it really is a nerf in disguise

 

Either that or use spoiled strike/get used to speeding up combos with warcry

 

im not too worried about the damage side of things mate, they openly said they planed on making her ult one of the strongest forms of melee combat in the game, my only gripe about the damage is i dont think it should use any factors of your melee weapon, should be just focused on power strength so it does not limit the options of the user.

[Azawarau]

im not too worried about the damage side of things mate, they openly said they planed on making her ult one of the strongest forms of melee combat in the game, my only gripe about the damage is i dont think it should use any factors of your melee weapon, should be just focused on power strength so it does not limit the options of the user.

With hysteria maybe

 

But people who favor warcry will lose out if its shifted from speed to damage without something more

[ArmyUnit]

additionally, the strength of the ability needs to not be contingent on the mods of your melee weapon. or at least not with crit stats. the strength of her hysteria needs to be balanced with power strength as such to where you can use any melee weapon you want without killing the damage of hysteria.

 

Fully agree^^^ Warframe abilities should only and ever be improved by how you mod your Warframe.

 

I agree also that Hysteria's invincibility should be replaced with something less cheap. I don't think any sort of armor/damage reduction mechanic will work though. Possibly a maximum DPS limit to Valkyr's health? So that she only takes x amount of damage per second. Would work against mobs of MOAs without being totally OP against single enemies.

 

I strongly disagree that Hysteria should be changed to a continuous skill. Seriously, there are so many bad consequences to that change.

 

 

I agree that Warcry should be an aura that is locked to Valkyr, and the armor increase needs to either be buffed or changed.

The speed buff should stay though. What is this, do you want another Rhino Roar?

 

 

And to whoever thinks Valkyr is squishy, you are doing things terribly wrong.

Edited June 28, 2014 by ArmyUnit

[Vanhline]

With hysteria maybe

 

But people who favor warcry will lose out if its shifted from speed to damage without something more

 

you wont loose out on anything, 100% speed and 100% damage would give the exact same amount of damage output with your melee weapon but without messing up peoples combo timing.

 

its not just about the user either, the person using their weapon can get used to the extra attack speed in order to make full use of their combos but the other people in your group getting clipped by the waycry are not going to be used to the extra speed and its as bad as trolling. 

 

the conversion to damage over speed would allow for the EXACT same damage output, no one would loose out on anything but many would stand to gain.

[Kuva_Kebab]

you wont loose out on anything, 100% speed and 100% damage would give the exact same amount of damage output with your melee weapon but without messing up peoples combo timing.

 

Stop trying to use combos, they don't do anything.

[Azawarau]

you wont loose out on anything, 100% speed and 100% damage would give the exact same amount of damage output with your melee weapon but without messing up peoples combo timing.

 

its not just about the user either, the person using their weapon can get used to the extra attack speed in order to make full use of their combos but the other people in your group getting clipped by the waycry are not going to be used to the extra speed and its as bad as trolling. 

 

the conversion to damage over speed would allow for the EXACT same damage output, no one would loose out on anything but many would stand to gain.

You lose out on status procs

 

Gas and toxin would be the same

 

Every other proc aside from slash would be less useful

[Vanhline]

Stop trying to use combos, they don't do anything.

 

the combos are a significant part of the melee system, they modify base damage and add in things like radial damage, forced status procs, finisher opportunists, CC effects, if your just spamming E endlessly then you missing out on what melee2.0 has to offer entirely. 

 

You lose out on status procs

 

Gas and toxin would be the same

 

Every other proc aside from slash would be less useful

 

proc damage and ailment amounts are based on damage done, you would have half as many procs but the procs hitting would be do so for twice the damage, still not loosing out on anything.

 

 

also with the changes made to how status works, many status effects no longer stack, they just refresh the stack of one on things like viral and corrosive so landing the effect more often is meaningless. 

[Kuva_Kebab]

the combos are a significant part of the melee system, they modify base damage and add in things like radial damage, forced status procs, finisher opportunists, CC effects, if your just spamming E endlessly then you missing out on what melee2.0 has to offer entirely. 

 

Spamming E gets me the highest damage in pretty much every game lobby as Valkyr, I lose nothing by spamming E, especially on Crimson Dervish where the base damage buff applies to the first 3 hits of EVERY COMBO, which includes "E, E, E".

 

Oh no, I don't look like some flashy-&#! space ninja, oh woe is me!

[Azawarau]

the combos are a significant part of the melee system, they modify base damage and add in things like radial damage, forced status procs, finisher opportunists, CC effects, if your just spamming E endlessly then you missing out on what melee2.0 has to offer entirely. 

 

 

proc damage and ailment amounts are based on damage done, you would have half as many procs but the procs hitting would be do so for twice the damage, still not loosing out on anything.

 

 

also with the changes made to how status works, many status effects no longer stack, they just refresh the stack of one on things like viral and corrosive so landing the effect more often is meaningless. 

The only ones based on damage done are toxin slash and gas iirc <And heat

 

Electric stun,viral proc (50% health drop), blast KD, corrosive armor eating, impact stun,puncture debuff,magnetic shield eating,cold slowdown effect, and radiations chance to proc are all cut in half

 

The stun chance from heat is also cut down

 

2/3 of the statuses become less useful if it shifted to an exact speed to damage change

Edited June 29, 2014 by Azawarau