So The Grind Is Real, This We Know, But That Feeling When You Get Something!

[billthebetta]

I've been grinding the hell outta T4D keys. And my internet can be finnicky at times, and now and then I've had to leave  suddenly(my fault for planning, and I always feel bad about it).

I've been getting a bit salty about the grind lately. Also had some coffee in the first time in ages, so that didn't help(I'M TYPING SO FAST THOUGH). And even more. I've been pressured to get what I needed from the mission cause I'm leaving for camp soon, and when I get back I won't have the time to play for 40 or so minutes at at time unless it's 4AM. So I was kinda stressed to get what I needed.

Entered a pub lobby, was asked to use Nova who I haven't used in ages. I like my FrostP and Nyx, and I play them competently. So I have this new and foreign experience going in and blowing all the things up.I was not in the best of moods. Now, two things happened in that match.

1) I re-learned why I kept Nova around. AMD is fun, and MPrime is MPrime.

2) I finally got what I was looking for.

 

THAT FEELING.

 

The freaky thing about this game is HOW MUCH you absolutely abhor the grind before you get said item. And honestly, the system needs a lot of work. Varying amounts of effort will eventually equal what you need, but the inconsistency in the grind is insulting to our time and effort.

However, when you grind tirelessly for That Part you need, that feeling you get is astounding. Better than the adrenaline rush of an extreme challenge. Better than grinding your 4x or more forma BoltorP to The Build you've been looking for. All that is topped by RNG, JUST ONCE, smiling in your favor, if even for an instant. RNG sucks, but that moment when it all pays out doesn't.

 

P.S. I expect people to say that DE will see this thread and make RNG harder, but there's a difference between rough RNG and abysmal RNG. DE needs to work on their system. It's made people quit, and it'll cause people to quit in the future. I'm not saying the system is good, just commenting on that feeling that makes you cackle in glee when you see That Part pop up for once.

[Yorinar]

The trick is balancing it so that good feels > bad feels.  Who wants to feel bad playing a game if the reward is not worth it?

[Katakuna]

I dunno, that "feeling" I usually got was me having to step away from the computer and question my decisions in life.

[Archistopheles]

However, when you grind tirelessly for That Part you need, that feeling you get is astounding.

 

A starving man will tell you that a slice of bread is the most wonderous food in the world.

[(PSN)Budukai_Man]

I got that feeling from transmuting, back when certain mods were worth a lot in ps4 =D

[Trowicia]

Usually after a massive grind fest and I find the part I need I start spewing expletives in the sense where I'm tired of grinding and will quit.

 

...then the next update, something else pops up and I'm back to square 1, grinding.

 

[Aggh]

The real problem is that we're all grinding for exactly the same loot.  Warframe's drops lack real lootiness.  When you finally get that mod, it's the same mod that everyone else has.  Then you pop some fusion cores into it and you're done.  Loot needs to have a lot more depth than that for an RNG drop system to not be painful.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Aggh

[Liminal]

In my experience that feeling should be "Yes! I got this, great!" instead of "Well, €$#ing finally. I don't feel like playing anymore". I get the latter btw.

[Ribboz]

The "feeling" I get after months of grinding is "why did I waste my life on this?" and a general emptiness inside myself.

 

Note I only started getting this feeling with the dilution of the void. For example, my clan mates and I farmed for a Rhino Chassis for months getting nothing. We finally gave up. Then Loki prime comes out and we're getting nothing. Suddenly we get a Rhino Prime chassis on a T4 survival. And it hits me like a brick. I wasted the last few months.

[Brahmastra]

>tfw never get to feel that feel.

 

RIP in peace Malicious Raptor.

0-0-0000 / 0-0-0000

[OniDax]

That feeling is: Hey, look! I got this by pure random chance. Neither the "work" I put into this nor my skill has anything to do with me getting what I wanted.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

A starving man will tell you that a slice of bread is the most wonderous food in the world.

 

Yes perception is indeed very powerful.  Different folks are ok with different levels of grind.

 

Looking back I can't believe I crafted and leveled so many weapons, while having fun most of the time doing it.  The game is not perfect, but this in itself says allot about Warframe.

 

=)

[notionphil]

 

However, when you grind tirelessly for That Part you need, that feeling you get is astounding. Better than the adrenaline rush of an extreme challenge. Better than grinding your 4x or more forma BoltorP to The Build you've been looking for. All that is topped by RNG, JUST ONCE, smiling in your favor, if even for an instant.

 

I think what you're looking for is right here....

Gamblers Anonymous

[OniDax]

Yes perception is indeed very powerful.  Different folks are ok with different levels of grind.

 

Looking back I can't believe I crafted and leveled so many weapons, while having fun most of the time doing it.  The game is not perfect, but this in itself says allot about Warframe.

 

=)

 

No, it says a lot about your perception of Warframe.

[neKroMancer]

The real problem is that we're all grinding for exactly the same loot.  Warframe's drops lack real lootiness.  When you finally get that mod, it's the same mod that everyone else has.  Then you pop some fusion cores into it and you're done.  Loot needs to have a lot more depth than that for an RNG drop system to not be painful.

I agree.

Warframe is a loot game at its core but the loot is really limiting. It drives player toward grinding for extremely specific thing by killing specific enemies in specific maps - creating a strong sense of grind in the game. The fact that we fight higher level enemies for the same loot that we can get from lower level means most of our loot are junk and represent no progression in the game. A strange design that doesn't work well with TPS/ARPG progression.

Playing both Diablo3 (RoS) and Borderlands make you appreciate a good loot design and progression that makes players feel that what they get matter and encourage changing equipments all the time. Warframe desperately needs that feeling.

[OniDax]

 

I think what you're looking for is right here....

GAMBLERS Anonymous

 

 

"Gamblers". Lottery. Those words perfectly describe grinding and RNG in this game.

[billthebetta]

The trick is balancing it so that good feels > bad feels.  Who wants to feel bad playing a game if the reward is not worth it?

 

The core of the problem.

I dunno, that "feeling" I usually got was me having to step away from the computer and question my decisions in life.

 

That feeling... I also got that when I realized I bust 1K steam hours on this game.

In my experience that feeling should be "Yes! I got this, great!" instead of "Well, €$#ing finally. I don't feel like playing anymore". I get the latter btw.

 

I've totally had both feelings before.

 

This thread pretty much has two purposes. It's a "You ever feel X when Y happens?" and "RNG is bad. DE PLOX NURF"

 

Edit: This thread is pretty much shaping out as I thought it would, but not as crazily pissed as I thought it might. Thanks guys.

 

Edited June 27, 2014 by billthebetta

[Valiant]

However, when you grind tirelessly for That Part you need, that feeling you get is astounding.

Yeah, right, then you go back to grinding again or finding yourself completely bored wondering what to actually do next.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Naith

[Yorinar]

The real problem is that we're all grinding for exactly the same loot.  Warframe's drops lack real lootiness.  When you finally get that mod, it's the same mod that everyone else has.  Then you pop some fusion cores into it and you're done.  Loot needs to have a lot more depth than that for an RNG drop system to not be painful.

 

QFT

 

And open trading of everything to make the loot you get mean something.

[Lunamaniac]

That feeling is: Hey, look! I got this by pure random chance. Neither the "work" I put into this nor my skill has anything to do with me getting what I wanted.

Yep...  When you might get it first time or whether it eludes you forever, you're just playing for the right to roll the dice.

[billthebetta]

Playing both Diablo3 (RoS) and Borderlands make you appreciate a good loot design and progression that makes players feel that what they get matter and encourage changing equipments all the time. Warframe desperately needs that feeling.

Thanks for mentioning those two games. I've never had the pleasure of Diablo(any), but BL1 is my shining example of a good loot system. In order to get the best items in the game, it doesn't require grinding, but farming. What I consider the difference is that grinding is working to get a drop, while farming is playing to get a drop.

 

Lemme explain the difference cause that was a bit vague.

 

Grinding is going out of the way to get a drop. This is an action that a player would not usually do in their normal gameplay day. I wouldn't usually play T4D or kill BUNK3R for hours on end, but I do. For the drop, not the experience.

 

Farming is playing as you normally would, but the thought of finding loot is kept in mind as well. This is done for the experience of happening upon a rare or special item while playing, not forcing/influencing the game to drop something. You can do whatever the heck you want, and sometime or another something prized will drop. I play BL1 on occasion, not as much as I used to. One day after not playing for a month, I run over the Farmory for the experience of opening chests and looking at stuff(yes, I'm strange), and the third Lance chest I open drops a Pearlescent. I wasn't expecting it. I wasn't thinking about it. I was just doing what I normally do and got rewarded.

 

Warframe doesn't provide that option. Doing what you normally do and getting rewarded. Frame has sort of made grind the gameplay.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

No, it says a lot about your perception of Warframe.

 

Indeed it does.  I really play it a bit more than I should be.  Overall I still like the game very much.  

 

I wonder however, what those people who spew so much hate on Warframe are still doing here "wasting" their time on the forums with us though.  

 

=/

[[DE]Momaw]

The trick is balancing it so that good feels > bad feels.  Who wants to feel bad playing a game if the reward is not worth it?

 

 

So far I have made 46 attempts to get the bo prime handle without success.  At an average of about 15 minutes per attempt, that's eleven and a half hours of actual play time without any real reward. That's disregarding time spent in logistics of waiting around for groups to form.  There are entire games that can be completed in less time.

 

Also spent literally two weeks trying to get Gleaming Talon. No success. I only have it now because somebody far more lucky than me gave me one. STILL missing Stalking Fan, which theoretically can drop from the same missions.

 

Vague feelings of injustice are starting to turn into definite feelings of resentment.

 

Rewards that you can actually, reliably grind out?  Credits?  I have almost ten million and nothing to spend them on.  Mastery rank? I just passed 16 and it doesn't matter because there are neither mechanical or social advantages gained.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Momaw

[Liminal]

eleven and a half hours of actual play time without any real reward

That's how I feel about getting stuff in Warframe: there's no progress, you either get something or you don't. And when you don't it feels like a complete waste of time.

 

I had to run Lech Kril 72 times back for Frost parts ages ago, before he got the ice/fire rework (before U8). Seventy-two times. I could have cleared half my backlog in that time.

 

Edit: I suck at names.

Edited June 27, 2014 by The_Doc

[Wurdyburd]

Claiming that good feels happen when you finally get something that you've been grinding long hours for is the argument that the drop in pain when you pull a rusty nail out of your foot validates the rusty nail being there in the first place.