Heavy Caliber Needs A Change

[AttackNitro]

Heavy Calibur should increase recoil not decrease accuracy.

 

Not only does it make no sense for heavy calibur to decrease accuracy, it makes already overpowered weapons even better than other weapons like snipers or bows (that rely on precision).

 

Sniping is already completely worthless in this game, and the heavy calibur mod only makes it worse by giving more damage to weapons that are already easier to use and do more DPS.

[Pip1n]

If you make it recoil, recoilless weapons get an extreme boost of damage for no penalty (Dera, Flux rifle, etc)

[ArchBlood]

It was like that. They switched it since it had no negative effect on weapons that lacked recoil. No need to switch it back.

[shut]

It (and its pistol counterpart) used to multiply the weapon's recoil, but there were far too many weapons (that were already considered borderline "overpowered" at the time, such as Flux Rifle, Synapse, Ignis, Vectis, and the bane-of-all-balance Acrid) that could equip the mod with literally no downside.

 

What Heavy Cal needs is a mod that can counter its downside. Vile Precision was introduced to act as a counter for the +Recoil stat, but when HC was changed to -Accuracy instead, they forgot to apply the change to VP as well. It remains a useless -Recoil mod to this day (a direct downgrade to Stabilizer, and there isn't a weapon out there that needs to stack the two), despite occasional threads popping up about it for the past ten months.

Edited June 28, 2014 by SortaRandom

[AttackNitro]

If you make it recoil, recoilless weapons get an extreme boost of damage for no penalty (Dera, Flux rifle, etc)

you clearly haven't played with the penta then. There is literally 0 downside to using heavy calibur on it.

 

Same applies to the boltor prime and any other spray and pray weapons. They are not designed for long range combat, so losing a bit of accuracy has no downside. Do you not understand this?

 

The recoil-less weapons such as the flux already have downsides such as having limited range, the dera has travel time etc.

[MSD3000]

So then the thread title should ACTUALLY be: Vile Precision Needs a Change

[DogManDan]

I don't know I can't use heavy calibur of several weapons as a result of that accuracy decrease. By the sounds of this you are more concerned with someone kill stealing (in a coop game where everyone gets the XP anyway) than the actual mod needing to be re-worked. 

 

It is not that OP and cannot be used on many weapons effectively at max rank as that negative accuracy can be a killer to it.

[AttackNitro]

So then the thread title should ACTUALLY be: Vile Precision Needs a Change

NO because then I need to use 2 mod slots to get the same advantage that a non precision weapon gets from heavy cal

 

I don't know I can't use heavy calibur of several weapons as a result of that accuracy decrease. By the sounds of this you are more concerned with someone kill stealing (in a coop game where everyone gets the XP anyway) than the actual mod needing to be re-worked. 

 

It is not that OP and cannot be used on many weapons effectively at max rank as that negative accuracy can be a killer to it.

Sounds like you're missing the point, I'm mastery 15 and have every overpowered weapon in the game, and all mods maxed out. Im not worried about getting my kills stolen.

[MSD3000]

you clearly haven't played with the penta then. There is literally 0 downside to using heavy calibur on it.

 

Same applies to the boltor prime and any other spray and pray weapons. They are not designed for long range combat, so losing a bit of accuracy has no downside. Do you not understand this?

 

The recoil-less weapons such as the flux already have downsides such as having limited range, the dera has travel time etc.

 

So you are basically railing against all the things that make Heavy Calibre GOOD at things...okay.

[AttackNitro]

So you are basically railing against all the things that make Heavy Calibre GOOD at things...okay.

[esapto]

calibur? calibre? i've never heard those words before.

[Psychosist]

If you make it recoil, recoilless weapons get an extreme boost of damage for no penalty (Dera, Flux rifle, etc)

And how many recoilless rifles are in the game? Amprex, Synapse, Flux Rifle, Ignis, and Dera are the only ones that come to mind for me.

Flux Rifle, Ignis, and Dera are already underpowered as they are (waging ~8000 to ~9000 burst DPS). Amprex has severely bad ammo economy in the long run. even with a Mutator mod, and Synapse is really the only weapon that can make effective use of a recoil-increasing Heavy Caliber.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Psychosist

[Warriorrogue]

It's fine how it is. It was horribly powerful before. Vile precision needs a buff. You complain you need more mod slots? That's the point.

And Pschosist, there are snipers, and bows.

And Amphrex actually can have more ammo efficency then synapse with punchthrough, with more points of arcing.

[(PSN)jenax002]

Reading the original post, i see that you have compared snipers to the overpowered weapons. Scott did mention in devstream 31 that they are working on the sniper buff. so, the snipers might be inferior right now but probably after Update 14, they won't. In conclusion i would say HEAVY CALIBER doesn't need a change but VILE PRECISION might (because nobody uses it). Its seems that you are little bit concerned about PENTA with a Heavy Caliber. I think DE should do something like they did for OGRIS. Slapping a heavy cal and split chamber on ogris (18000 + damage) shoots 2 rockets in different directions and sometimes has a chance to kill you. The same should be implemented for PENTA.

 

on the other hand, I don't know why you keep calling all the other weapons 'Overpowered'. If you haven't watched devstream 30, please go ahead and watch it. The devs themselves said that they want the tennos to be overpowered because thats the whole point of the game. warframe is a game where we are the considered overpowered and that is the reason people play the game over and over again and try to go for endless survivals. Mindless grinding with S#&$ weapons that do barely any damage after 30 or 40 waves will make this game even more boring. And i still do not understand how some one using a overpowered Boltor Prime or PENTA affects you in the game if you have access to that gun too?

 

NOTE: - I am MR15 too and we had our fun playing with all these crazy weapons. Please do not kill the fun for new players. They work their a$$ off to get these weapons and MODS and by the time they get it, people like you cry for a nerf which is actually not needed at least at this point of time where their is little to less lore and its all about mindless grinding. I understand DE going back and fixing some these weapons or MODS when story comes into play or PVP is more organized but as of now there are other priorities to be dealt with than these stupid nerfs which doesn't even benefit or bother anyone. Let the new players have some fun like we did before you go ahead and kill their fun.

Edited June 28, 2014 by (PS4)jenax002

[MoyuTheTrinity]

I would like atleast the heavy cal for pistols to be changed to recoil and get a damage boost

or better yet make it recoild for both rifle and pistol and make it force a minimun recoil on recoiless weapons you know the 5-6 that are realy weak and dont actuly matter when compaired to the all mighty boltor prime (wich i do belive does not have a rank limite like most of the other recoiless weapons)

Edited June 28, 2014 by MoyuTheMedic

[Arunafeltz]

I actually run Heavy Caliber maxed on my Snipetron Vandal tbh. It works great so far. That aside, I'm just gonna hop on the bandwagon and mention Vile Precision. Someone do something about that thing. 

[SeargantHaztagazpacho]

Would make sense, since increasing the caliber by switching barrels/modding would increase recoil...

[Seele]

Heavy Caliber originally increased both damage and recoil. This was changed when they realized continuous weapons suffered no penalty whatsoever.

 

Now that it reduces accuracy, people have to ponder the consequences and decide if it's worth putting on their weap-

 

 

Oh god that was hard to type with a straight face! Could you imagine if someone didn't use Heavy Caliber on everything?!

 

 

Let's look at some numbers here.

 

Boltor Prime, the patron saint of the lazy gamer, comes out of the box with a base 50.0 accuracy.

With the Heavy Caliber debuff, that's brought down to 22.5, which is only slightly lower than regular Boltor, Soma, Braton, etc. without any debuffs. The base value.

 

And while every weapon theoretically suffers a penalty now, it's either A) not significant enough to notice or balance against +165% damage, or B) easily remedied by getting closer to the enemy.

 

Though I do appreciate the fact that they thought to ensure that anything which used the mod would suffer its drawback. Just like they did with Fleeting Exper-

Oh god I did it again! I slay me.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Seele

[MSD3000]

calibur? calibre? i've never heard those words before.

Sorry I'm used to typing like a spanish word. Lets just submit that they should rename the mod to "Mucho Calibre! ie ie ie!"

[Warriorrogue]

Well, seele, fleeting exp is sometimes not wanted to be used. I'd never use it on zephyr, for example.

And I also don't like heavy cal on my latron prime.

But, I see your point.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Warriorrogue

[Edgedemon]

It was like that. They switched it since it had no negative effect on weapons that lacked recoil. No need to switch it back.

except that now it throws accuracy from 100 to 7 with only a 5/10 HC, it now only works on stream weapons or the very few where you dont give a sh!t where you're aiming

 

If you make it recoil, recoilless weapons get an extreme boost of damage for no penalty (Dera, Flux rifle, etc)

dera seems to be the weapon that gets hurt the most with HC now.

[ArchBlood]

except that now it throws accuracy from 100 to 7 with only a 5/10 HC, it now only works on stream weapons or the very few where you dont give a sh!t where you're aiming

 

dera seems to be the weapon that gets hurt the most with HC now.

That's the way of balancing it, most weapons suffer vastly from the negative effects. Works on weapons that are short to mid(only on some) range weapons. So, not just a pure 165% damage buff on everything. Recoil addition just means you'll fire single shots or burst for full control and thus easy added bonus to damage.

 

Did I like that they changed it to what it is now? Eh, no, but it was needed. We already power-creep enough.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

Well, seele, fleeting exp is sometimes not wanted to be used. I'd never use it on zephyr, for example.

And I also don't like heavy cal on my latron prime.

But, I see your point.

 

tho honestly anything that uses durration has so much of it after narrow minded that it is expendable 30 second snowglobes down to 25 ect ect

thing of it like this whats better having something stay up for 5-7 more seconds out of like 30-40 or casting it more offten

feels kinda nessisary on most warframes since saddly everyone nolonger relys on trinity to be the energy queen she used to be (before these mods and before ev nerf in usability) with these mods everyone is self sufficient and ev is only useful so she personaly wont need these 2 mods allowing her to squeeze 1 more mod on

 

That's the way of balancing it, most weapons suffer vastly from the negative effects. Works on weapons that are short to mid(only on some) range weapons. So, not just a pure 165% damage buff on everything. Recoil addition just means you'll fire single shots or burst for full control and thus easy added bonus to damage.

 

Did I like that they changed it to what it is now? Eh, no, but it was needed. We already power-creep enough.

 

and then they added the boltor prime

Edited June 29, 2014 by MoyuTheMedic

[Seele]

That's the way of balancing it, most weapons suffer vastly from the negative effects. Works on weapons that are short to mid(only on some) range weapons. So, not just a pure 165% damage buff on everything. Recoil addition just means you'll fire single shots or burst for full control and thus easy added bonus to damage.

 

Did I like that they changed it to what it is now? Eh, no, but it was needed. We already power-creep enough.

Recoil is harder to mitigate than 'inaccuracy'. Given that my Gorgon with a base 8 accuracy can still hit a target consistently across common engagement distances, it's a complete nonissue, especially when Boltor Prime (the most powerful weapon in the game) sits just beneath the benchmark inherent value for rifle accuracy (the one used by such punishingly inaccurate weapons as Braton, Karak, and Soma) when equipped with a maxed Heavy Caliber.

 

I honestly think Heavy Caliber should either impose both added recoil and inaccuracy, offer a much lower damage bonus, or just not exist anymore.

[TwiceDead]

So then the thread title should ACTUALLY be: Vile Precision Needs a Change

Along with the remaining 70% of the mods that are completely useless.