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Regarding Complaints About Founder Packs, Cross-Platform And Account Migration. Read This!


Zelfarion
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I stopped at small trivial skin because the wall of text would take too much effort to read so excuse the lack of reading from there on

 

But if its really so trivial then why fight over it?

 

Im not saying DE should re release the founders pack though that would be very nice

 

But if its really such a trivial thing whats the point in defending it? Its really not so trivial

 

Alot of the pro founder arguments come down to this same thing

 

Alternative options to shut people up are immediately shut down as well

 

Dexcalibur and dual skana and aklato primes or dex dual skana or whatever itd be called are all good options that dont at all impede on the founders pack but theyre shot down too

 

In my eyes the issue is the founders overstepping boundaries to defend something they call trivial themselves

That kind of argument won't get us anywhere. If it is trivial why do you want it so bad?

 

All we can do is agree to disagree and this kind of argument will only darken the community, the forums and the game. Let's make the founders and their exclusives history and be done with it.

 

Like OP said, if a kickstarter campaign has exclusives and you missed out, that is your problem, not the developers or the backers.

 

As to OP, no founders should remain on PC only. It starts there and it ends there, think about the cries from all the little spoilt kids. "MOM GIMME PWETY EXCAWIBU"

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It isn't. Sony very much competes with PC, although MS is by far more direct competition. By the way, you do realize that playing Warframe on PS4 in SCEE regions is far more expensive than on PC?

PC gaming has a low and high end user base that the console market can't really compete for until much later in the cycle (in the case of the low end market that is).  So no, it's not a market that they really bother competing with except for the middle ground of people that have a console as well and or are willing to forgo the use of their high end gaming PC if they have one. 

 

Additionally in the case of games that started out on PC, they're even less likely to try and compete since most people aren't going to abandon their PC account for a their PS4 one, especially in the case of a time intensive game like warframe.

 

You still have yet to explain to me under what rational reasoning Sony shouldn't take an opportunity to earn money off an asset they hadn't planned on or been able to release anyways.

Edited by Aggh
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That kind of argument won't get us anywhere. If it is trivial why do you want it so bad?

 

All we can do is agree to disagree and this kind of argument will only darken the community, the forums and the game. Let's make the founders and their exclusives history and be done with it.

 

Like OP said, if a kickstarter campaign has exclusives and you missed out, that is your problem, not the developers or the backers.

 

As to OP, no founders should remain on PC only. It starts there and it ends there, think about the cries from all the little spoilt kids. "MOM GIMME PWETY EXCAWIBU"

Thats the problem

 

Rather than meet in the middle theyll call the other side unreasonable and say it should just end

 

Its an out argument that makes the more reasonable side look stubborn

 

Again, exclusives should stay exclusive as long as DE wants the that way but things that arent exclusive shouldnt be excluded from the table entirely because one side isnt willing to bend and would rather push blame than find a solution

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No, because it still doesn't change the fact that a large number founders (and based on your join date, that most likely includes you) didn't really help get the game off the ground.

 

And how do you know that a large number of founders didnt jump on the train immedietly? from the statistics ive seen atleast it shows that the majority of founder packs were sold during the first month you doulc buy them. which means that if that is true im right. but thats beside my point im gonna make here: PC players funded the game so it could be made. And even if they couldve made the PC version without all that money they got from PC players doesnt change the fact that PC players funded and made the PS4 version attainable. That is an undeniable fact. 

 

So whichever point you want to twist it to you still lose on this simple point.

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Wow that was long but I'm glad you brought up the subject since it does address some controversial subjects. That being said, I disagree with you on a few points. I don't want to counter every argument but I would like to address an issue I can see sort of springing up in all of them. Lets say one is a founder. I think the question deserves asking; did one become a founder to show DE one supports Warframe or was it the lure of exclusive content that made one donate? If it's the first one, one wouldn't mind if some content that was promised earlier in game development would be exclusive became nonexclusive because game development that early can cause big changes involving the item you got. If it's the second, DE is under no obligation to design around ones vanity. It will cost them customers to do so since new players will feel they have an incomplete game and respond to that in turn. Part of the charm of Warframe is that one can build almost everything with effort and little money. It kind of loses that spirit with the existence of exclusive items.

PS4 and Xbox One players should be offered the founders packs since the game was never on those platforms nor designed with those platforms in mind. There is a chance the game will not succeed on those platforms due to design, bugs, or if it doesn't strike a cord with the main consumer base (exclusive content players can't get on their platform due to it being promised on a different platform is going to be a point of contention with the main consumer base) and the players will have spent real money on platinum if the game goes down. Their input and game testing is very important for the game to do well on console. Also the adoption of the game is important and offering the founder packs is a great way to get the ball rolling on that.

 

You do have a point there. BUT then again the Warframe philosophy you are talking about didnt really start until about 7 months after the game went into open beta. There were ALOT of items you COULD NOT craft at ALL but you had to get them from events etc. And there are weapons that became craftable like 1-2 months ago that actually were IN THE GAME and people had them 7-8 months ago that they got from events. So the question then becomes Is that REALLY relevant to this? since the philosophy seems to change back and forth and its differrent interpretations comes form differrent people. And DE havent said a word about which philosophy of the hundreds that are out there is the one they are following. 

 

And how the game works in regards to craftable gear etc seems to change all the time. As I said that weapons that became craftable like a month or 2 ago people already had from events 2-3 months prior to that point.

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And how do you know that a large number of founders didnt jump on the train immedietly? from the statistics ive seen atleast it shows that the majority of founder packs were sold during the first month you doulc buy them. which means that if that is true im right. but thats beside my point im gonna make here: PC players funded the game so it could be made. And even if they couldve made the PC version without all that money they got from PC players doesnt change the fact that PC players funded and made the PS4 version attainable. That is an undeniable fact. 

 

So whichever point you want to twist it to you still lose on this simple point.

Would you care to share the statistics? I'm curious :O

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It isn't. Sony very much competes with PC, although MS is by far more direct competition. By the way, you do realize that playing Warframe on PS4 in SCEE regions is far more expensive than on PC?

 

You're not the first, the second, or even 10th person to bring this up. Although one of the first to say it so well, but still. DE themselves rejected it. In fact there was a post by DERebecca on PS4 forums, which was, to be honest, both insulting to reader's intelligence and offensive. Which was pointed out quickly - not by me, but it was done very politely - at which point converstion died. PC fanboy moderators are not helping either.

In recent community hot topics DE staff (not a mod or community manager by the way) actually stated that they have no active plans to re-release founders items, but keep their options open if they will need to do so at some point. But they welcome constructive discussion on the subject. Right after that moderator Letter13 closed thread on the matter in PS4 section - and thread has been going on for ages naturally - and stated that those items won't be released. One would wonder who authorised him to override developers statement.

I keep wondering how will they release on xbone, because with current xbone policies they are obliged to offer all founders items on XBLA. Unless that has changed very recently. MS are not in a good spot with xbone...

 

 

Well, to my understanding initially "prime" items were intended as 3 unique kickstarter-supporters reskins. Then that changed into all Tenno stuff having a prime version. Then that changed into Prime warframes being a better, upgraded versions of existing warframes. I won't be surprised if much later there will be unique memory quests that are unlocked by acquiring prime Warframes and involve re-living the old Sentient War events as this prime Warframe. Except there won't be a quest for excalibur, because it's a pay2win limited time reward exclusive to 1 platform out of 3.

I'll be honest, I would have never spent any money on that game if I knew about all this PC exclusive crap. But you know, game is not even labeled as beta on PS4, deception all around.

 

I only have 1 thing to say here: MS have NOTHING to say on the matter about exclusive stuff like this. And in any case DE have more authority than MS on the matter anyway. Because if MS demands DE to release exclusive content on xbone then DE can just demand a specially written contract that disregards that policy and if MS doesnt agree to their ters then they can just say no. 

 

MS cannot and have no power to force DE to MS terms. DE have more power in this regard. Which is also the same with Sony. DE has the most power in making contracts. If MS for example tries to force DE to something then DE can just simply say no. People take MS and Sony policies like they are 100% rules that cannot be broken. In fact they are easily breakable. It ALL depends on what the developer wants and what terms they are willing to accept from for example MS. 

 

I mean MS can ALSO say no etc. But its easier for DE to say no than MS or Sony. There are TONS of games that have "broken" what MS and Sony has in their policies simply because the contract they all signed is specifically made for the game and makes a loophole around the policy. and if fans complain then they can just throw the contract up and say "Look here. Look at what this contract says"

 

Usually both parties compromise etc. but they are NOT in ANY way obliged to listen to MS or Sony. It ALL depends on what it says in the contraact. policies arent that consistent and have no bearing on contracts. contracts are where the power is, not policies.

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I just want DE to simply put an end to this discussion and announce what will transfer already. The sneaky attitude is bothersome.

 

Dont we all? Isnt that why we are discussing this subject? Although most people here dont talk about the subject at all. Personally I think that why they havent answered yet is because they dont KNOW what can be transfered yet. I mean it IS in the testing phase now. And besides isnt players talking about the subject a great way for DE to find out what they should try to test in this case what can be transfered? 

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Dont we all? Isnt that why we are discussing this subject? Although most people here dont talk about the subject at all. Personally I think that why they havent answered yet is because they dont KNOW what can be transfered yet. I mean it IS in the testing phase now. And besides isnt players talking about the subject a great way for DE to find out what they should try to test in this case what can be transfered? 

Finally we 100% agree on something! I wish I could know the answer. So that I finally could either disband my clan with a week long notice and uninstall the game if they transfer PC exclusives or get around adding funds to my psn wallet for upcoming loki prime access if they don't.

And I believe at this point DE should already know what Sony decided to allow them. So, maybe we can have [DE]Drew or someone else clarify the situation?

P.S. I'd left already, but I've spent around so much money on this game that leaving without knowing if they screw us permanently or not is kinda silly. All my friends who spent no money or just a little already left though.

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And how do you know that a large number of founders didnt jump on the train immedietly? from the statistics ive seen atleast it shows that the majority of founder packs were sold during the first month you doulc buy them. which means that if that is true im right. but thats beside my point im gonna make here: PC players funded the game so it could be made. And even if they couldve made the PC version without all that money they got from PC players doesnt change the fact that PC players funded and made the PS4 version attainable. That is an undeniable fact. 

 

So whichever point you want to twist it to you still lose on this simple point.

You don't seriously think that they sold more founders packs in the first month than they did after the game's concurrent player base more than tripled, do you?

 

Dont we all? Isnt that why we are discussing this subject? Although most people here dont talk about the subject at all. Personally I think that why they havent answered yet is because they dont KNOW what can be transfered yet. I mean it IS in the testing phase now. And besides isnt players talking about the subject a great way for DE to find out what they should try to test in this case what can be transfered? 

It's not in a testing phase at all.  They already have it fully functioning and have posted as much.  They're just waiting for negotiations with Sony to finish.

Edited by Aggh
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-snip-

 

Unless they decided to make founders items tradeable.  In which case the massive plat sales that would drive would make it in Sony's best interest to include them.

From my understanding Sony wouldn't get any money from increased plat sales. F2P games pay Sony a certain amount of money monthly to keep their currency on the psn store. So all money would go to DE after that Sony would have no benefit to include founder items even if they were tradable.

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From my understanding Sony wouldn't get any money from increased plat sales. F2P games pay Sony a certain amount of money monthly to keep their currency on the psn store. So all money would go to DE after that Sony would have no benefit to include founder items even if they were tradable.

Account migration would have most likely been in place ages ago if that were the case since DE would be the only one who would have to worry about money earned/lost as a result.

Edited by Aggh
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Two things:

1.) That talk about PC players funding the PS4 version and how we should be sooo grateful to you and worship the ground you walk on? Yeah, you come off as an arrogant #$&(% there, so you may want to rephrase it a bit better.

2.) DE stated that they're going to go back and give the older Primes buffs, presumably including Excal Prime. Having the improved version of a frame only in a pack that isn't available any more is a nono. Founders should've been rewarded, but not with an exclusive frame. It should stay on the PC version where it was bought. Anyone transferring over should only have the items that were available on PS4.

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I don't want to throw flames, because I agree  with most of your points, and I respect that you took the time to present them in a logical, cool-headed fashion. I'm going to attempt to do the same even though I am very butthurt, namely about not getting Excalibur Prime. I acknowledge that the Founders probably had a quantifiable effect on my warframe experience (don't know enough about it to speak on it further), and yes, the fact that I did not know about warframe when the founders pack was available isn't the DE's fault. Not against the transferring of accounts, because I really don't care. The following will address the subject of the founders pack exclusives. 

 

However, in the theme of keeping responses brief, I'd like to spin around your government/ country example right quick. Say ten families found a country, put all their resources and time and effort into it, and bang the country's successful subsequently the government gives each family a special house. Then, later ten more families immigrate to this country. The immigrants can invest as just as much time and effort into the country as the original ten families, and can get a house almost like what the original family has, but they can never really get it. You can't postulate equality if the end state achievable isn't the same for everyone. 

 

You talked a lot in some of the following posts about punishment, but how much punishment is it to make these items exclusive to everyone? If Excalibur Prime is so inconsequential, then why defend its exclusivity? As I said before, you can't say that the game is equal opportunity, especially if you're lording your status as a founder over certain items. Furthermore, if knowing about the game earlier is no one's fault, then why should the founders be rewarded for such an action? You're answer was that they paid, but if I paid the same amount right now, I couldn't get the same thing. Don't see how you can derive equality from that. 

 

I guess in the end, the founders did start up the game for us, and I can appreciate that. I understand that you want to be rewarded for being there since day one, but that's not equality. I REALLY want Excalibur Prime, but I can understand if DE holds down their day ones. 

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In regards to the statement where account migration might bring in an influx of OP players, I don't think that is true.

My mods collection points is well past 26 million points. I have almost everything at maxed level except for reflex guard (gathering up cores to do so as we speak) and a few junk mods (diamond skin etc). All my rank 10 mods are maxed except for reflex guard. Yes, even magnum force.

I have all frames unlocked and multiple forma's thrown at each and everyone of them.

All prime weapons mastered with multiple forma's.

All explosive weapons and most of the usable weapons have between 4-6 forma's each.

So, bring on the PC players, I say...

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In regards to the statement where account migration might bring in an influx of OP players, I don't think that is true.

My mods collection points is well past 26 million points. I have almost everything at maxed level except for reflex guard (gathering up cores to do so as we speak) and a few junk mods (diamond skin etc). All my rank 10 mods are maxed except for reflex guard. Yes, even magnum force.

I have all frames unlocked and multiple forma's thrown at each and everyone of them.

All prime weapons mastered with multiple forma's.

All explosive weapons and most of the usable weapons have between 4-6 forma's each.

So, bring on the PC players, I say...

Dedicated PC players have had most of that for months before the ps4 even came out :|

Edited by Aggh
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You don't seriously think that they sold more founders packs in the first month than they did after the game's concurrent player base more than tripled, do you?

 

It's not in a testing phase at all.  They already have it fully functioning and have posted as much.  They're just waiting for negotiations with Sony to finish.

 Well what I read yesterday its in the testing phase and that the deal with Sony is already over. I mean there IS a thread from DE that states wat I said. it said that Sony gave the go ahead and that they are now testing the migration process. And that is one reason why its gonna be in Update 14.

 

And that was the latest one they have posted as of yesterday. UNLESS they posted something today about it you are wrong. but I cant say since idk if they posted smething today about it. So I amdit that I could be wrong. its just that the info ive found doesnt say what you say. 

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Dedicated PC players have had most of that for months before the ps4 even came out :|

 

well that doesnt negate the fact that there are already "OP players" on PS4. quite alot of them as well. not a majority of course. Just regarding this point for me is that why should this matter? i mean one thing is that anything that you guys dont have because of updates we migrating PC players may have but CANNOT use until YOU guys are able to on PS4. That is if WE switch to PS4. I mean its the same restrictions on EVERYONE whether you are migating to PS4 or have always been on PS4. 

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Two things:

1.) That talk about PC players funding the PS4 version and how we should be sooo grateful to you and worship the ground you walk on? Yeah, you come off as an arrogant #$&(% there, so you may want to rephrase it a bit better.

2.) DE stated that they're going to go back and give the older Primes buffs, presumably including Excal Prime. Having the improved version of a frame only in a pack that isn't available any more is a nono. Founders should've been rewarded, but not with an exclusive frame. It should stay on the PC version where it was bought. Anyone transferring over should only have the items that were available on PS4.

 

1) Well excuse me for not having English as my first language and dont know any other way to phrase what I mean than that. You dont have to be insulting because of it. Kind of takes your point away by ALOT. Oh and btw: i didnt say to rever and worship PC players now did I? I only stated the hard fact that without the PC players money the PS4 version wouldnt have been made.

 

2) Why should it stay on PC? so far NO ONE that has disagreed with me and said what you have said has given ANY reason at all OR any valid reason. So could you give the reason and a valid one at that please?

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