An Iron Skin Update? About Damn Time

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Silly idea. Speed in this game is convenience more than anything. What next? nerf right stick sensitivity and screen brightness?

No. Iron skin is just in the sweet spot right now - has just enough utility to keep staying useful and worth casting, but not nearly good enough to focus on it or mod for it.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Oh god, imagine a new player with iron skin. Too speedy for me all right.

 

Then tack on a hobbled key. 0.0

[WARLOCKE]

How long is it going to take you fools to understand this one simple fact. DE understands Rhino can be built for speed. THEY HAVE KNOWN THIS FOR HALF A YEAR. Sorry for the caps, but its imperitive people read that part so we do away with these $&*&*#(%& threads.

 

Rhino will not be getting the nerfs YOU think he needs. Its pretty obvious, so give it up and stop polluting the forums with threads like this.

 

DE also knows about IS being useless at high levels of play. Heck we told them before they even made the change from % to a flat rate it was a horrible idea and way to handle the skill. DE didnt seem to share the communities thoughts and did it their way. IS will not be getting a change.

[(PSN)iBoiz]

 "iron skin should slow down Rhino's speed since he is lugging 1000kg worth of iron around" In that case might as well decrease speed if you carry heavy weapons like Fragor for all frames that look weak ex Loki, Oberon, female frames, and Nekros turning into Slowpoke because how can he carry such a huge weapon when he got no muscles, right?

Edited June 30, 2014 by (PS4)iBoiz
Edited to comply with our community rules.

[Jamescell]

@Lord_Gremlin speed is a stat not a visual option or controller configuration, your point could be valid if every frame had an equal sprint speed, but that's not the case.

@The-Nightman For balance, and to stick to his original thematic setback which WAS being slow. Again, Rhino specializes in everything, not just protecting. To address your point about tanks needing to be frontwards, one, it's not like most regular missions are challenging enough to need a tank in the front, it isn't a problem in defense-type missions, and for the levels that are hard enough to require tanking players won't be flying through enemies, thus the whole mission will not be a race and thus the tank will not have to race to the front. Two, when Rhino IS in the front he does as much if not more damage than other frames, he not only becomes a tank but a bulldozer.

[Hayzemet]

Iron skin is usless vs high level mobs, and rhino aint as good as everyone say

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

I think improving iron skin's late-game durbility and aggro draw, while adding a speed penalty would make it a more interesting skill to use. It might need a way to shake it off if it's going to slow the user, but otherwise I think it would provide more interesting gameplay if it wasn't just press 2 to crutch at low levels.

 

If the rest of a team needs a tank, they shouldn't run off. If the team doesn't need a tank, then a tanking partner does not need to be forced on them. In situations where tanking is needed, only bad players would rush forward. They'll either learn from their mistakes, or fail forever and never get invited to groups again. Both are good outcomes.

[Jamescell]

UPDATE: Added a buff to counter balance the speed nerf. Would help greatly on higher levels and with proper balancing not change things significantly on lower levels.

[WARLOCKE]

UPDATE: Added a buff to counter balance the speed nerf. Would help greatly on higher levels and with proper balancing not change things significantly on lower levels.

 

Update all you want, itll stillbe Rhino whine thread #277. He isnt getting nerfed, deal.

[Seele]

This is irrelevant. A tank does not need to be slow "for balance". That defies logic in a game where we are all zooming along.

 

There is no purpose, point, logic or positive reason for Rhino to be slow, at all, whatsoever.

Most, if not all frames rely on mobility as a form of defense. Evasion.

 

Rhino, given the same speed as everyone else (or higher with prime+vanguard) can evade as well as anyone and take the most damage as well. It forgives bad gameplay.

 

Rhino is also not a tank. He does not draw aggro. He just has the highest innate defensive prowess, and superior stats across the board for that matter. That is why he still needs adjustment. There is a reason so many players get Rhino Prime, Soma/Penta/Boltor Prime, and Brakk as soon as possible and then stay rank 7 forever, and it's not because those items are reasonably balanced.

[ReiganCross]

Visually: Replace the current Iron/Golden Crust, that looks for the most part like a visual glitch, with actual "armor", essentially solid metallic textures that replace the normal textures in significant areas, the shoulders, forearms, waist and calves. The color of this texture could be completely changed based on a specific cosmetic color option that could be added to the customization UI specifically for Rhino. If this new color option is left un-specified the armor would remain Iron/Gold/Rubedo.

 

Or make it an "Energy Armor" and tie it to the Energy Color. Mainly because i don't consider putting armor on an actual Skill (And before you ask, yes, i don't consider bathing yourself in mud a skill either.)

 

If it's an Energy emission then it will be all the more awesome. It will be like he's using his energy to project armor as a form of defense, that grant him defensive proprieties and has health of it's own (Y'know, like Iron Skin is supposed to do now.) And yes i'm only commenting on the visual side of the thing because i like that side more.

[Nicanuva]

Why would anyone want to nerf an ability that THEY use? Quit asking for Rhino to be slowed down. He's slow enough. Iron Skin is not fair in Conclave? If you don't like it, don't play it.

[Nicanuva]

Or make it an "Energy Armor" and tie it to the Energy Color. Mainly because i don't consider putting armor on an actual Skill (And before you ask, yes, i don't consider bathing yourself in mud a skill either.)

 

If it's an Energy emission then it will be all the more awesome. It will be like he's using his energy to project armor as a form of defense, that grant him defensive proprieties and has health of it's own (Y'know, like Iron Skin is supposed to do now.) And yes i'm only commenting on the visual side of the thing because i like that side more.

Sick idea. Would love to have my Rhino looking like Soul Calibur's Nightmare.

[_Fracture8]

Personally, I disagree with the speed debuff idea. I see your point, don't get me wrong, but from my experience all that you get from making a frame slower is making it useless because everything is already dead by the time they can catch up with everyone else. I don't think any frame should have a speed lower than 1.

 

 

1) You don't understand the concept of a "Tank". A slow moving object that deals/withstands heavy damage, the slow speed being the    compensation. It becomes a problem when a frame has the stats of a tank, with none of the drawbacks.

2) "Making a frame slower is making it useless because everything is already dead by the time they catch up with everyone else" 

- That makes EVERY OTHER FRAME IN THE GAME REDUNDANT. If Rhino can excel in each and every area (health, shields, CC, damage, etc) then give him the potential of the highest sprint speed, all the other frames who can't catch up to him will be severely under-matched. What you are proposing is that Rhino should have no drawbacks. At all. And this is the mindset that 80% of Rhino users contain. Which is stupid. Why use a Saryn for example if you can just "Get a Rhino and your problems will go away" #Cruisemodeforlife #Spambuild2&4 

- "Most things are already dead before any other frame can get to them, because Rhino Vanguard Prime has already killed them all with superior stats and abilities. The only reason Loki has a fast sprint speed is because when he rushes into a crowd and presses 4 repeatedly, noone dies instantly. There's balance in there, in which Rhino has a complete lack of. And the OP's iron condom changes tilts the balance back into everyones favor.

Edited July 5, 2014 by KilelrDrone492

[fatpig84]

If you are going to make Rhino 40% slower, at least make IS 85% DR.

40% slower is 0.54 sprint / run speed on Rhino.

 

That is practically a turtle in warframe.

Yes I calculated that speed without Arcane vanguard because that no longer exists.

[Jamescell]

@fatpig84, it would prevent players from spamming iron skin, and use it in times of defense or dire need.

[MrNonApplicable]

 

 

1) You don't understand the concept of a "Tank". A slow moving object that deals/withstands heavy damage, the slow speed being the    compensation. It becomes a problem when a frame has the stats of a tank, with none of the drawbacks.

2) "Making a frame slower is making it useless because everything is already dead by the time they catch up with everyone else" 

- That makes EVERY OTHER FRAME IN THE GAME REDUNDANT. If Rhino can excel in each and every area (health, shields, CC, damage, etc)    then give him the potential of the highest sprint speed, all the other frames who can't catch up to him will be severely under-matched. What you are    proposing is that Rhino should have no drawbacks. At all. And this is the mindset that 80% of Rhino users contain. Which is stupid. Why use a Saryn for example if you can just "Get a Rhino and your problems will go away" #Cruisemodeforlife #Spambuild2&4 

- "Most things are already dead before any other frame can get to them, because Rhino Vanguard Prime has already killed them all with superior    stats and abilities. The only reason Loki has a fast sprint speed is because when he rushes into a crowd and presses 4 repeatedly, noone dies    instantly. There's balance in there, in which Rhino has a complete lack of. And the OP's iron condom changes tilts the balance back into everyones    favor.

 

This is a really good point, wish DE were reading this ^

[Seele]

Yes I calculated that speed without Arcane vanguard because that no longer exists.

It most certainly does. I have one now. I could go to trade chat and buy another one or two or seven if I wanted.

 

Arcane helmets were not in any capacity removed.

[Pbrandon1]

I prefer that instead of just giving him a damage reduction, just make it where Iron Skin is kinda like Hysteria.

 

Have it where Rhino turns his skin to Iron for a set amount of time like he already does but switches to fist because the Iron Skin causes him to have enormous strength, strength that can break his weapons. He then has new animations for his ability and can kinda be like the Rhino in the trailer for Alad V. He is then slowed down and plus cannot use his weapons, but now has enormous strength and is invincible. Would make the complainers happy, and the people who love Iron Skin happy too.

[Archwizard]

Stat Wise: Add a damage reduction to Iron Skin that negates a certain % of all incoming damage (10/15/20/25%) to Rhino BEFORE it damages Iron Skin, this effect only lasts while Iron Skin is in effect. NOT scaling with power strength. A nerf to overall health of Iron Skin may be necessary for balance on lower levels.

 

But if no attack can hit the Rhino before hitting the barrier already, then that would just increase the barrier's effective health by 10/15/20/25%; there wouldn't be any visible difference from just adding more hitpoints to the skin itself.

Granted, I'm basing this off the wiki's statement that it also causes you to ignore debuffs like poison and disruption, which... might be bugged if it isn't doing that like some comments in this thread have been saying.

 

Maybe they could instead reinstate the debuff immunity (if it is gone) and reverse-engineer the Snow Globe scaling effect or something?

 

As for the slow, like some people have already stated, not everyone has Arcane Vanguard. I'm more of a fan of the idea of Rhino being weighed down (opposite Zephyr's floatiness), since he's advertised as the "heaviest" frame, and just retroactively toning down Arcane Vanguard's boost to something like ~10-15%.

[ReiganCross]

As for the slow, like some people have already stated, not everyone has Arcane Vanguard. I'm more of a fan of the idea of Rhino being weighed down (opposite Zephyr's floatiness), since he's advertised as the "heaviest" frame, and just retroactively toning down Arcane Vanguard's boost to something like ~10-15%.

 

There it is, good idea on how to make Rhino seem heavy. Because you know one thing that doesn't go together? Heavy and Speed... And then there's all those argument in these post about "Being slow would be stupid" or "If i'm slow then i'll be in the back and therefore i wouldn't tank" and even more arguments i could care even less about. It would be a nice compromise if they had some sort of heavy gravity jumping to compensate for being fatasses....

 

Iron Skin giving you some form of slow would make using Iron Skin an actual decision you have to think about if you'll do it or not. For one side, you like the speed it brings with NOT using Iron Skin. From the other side, you like the extra health and immunity to non-damage knockdowns it gives And possible over-all damage reduction it brings (PS, making damage reduce a percentage of dmg wouldn't give it effective health, it would give proportionate health, there's some difference.). So you weight down both options and decide what is best for you, instead of it being a non-option. Because right now you just switch it on without thinking about it.

[Rainofgod]

Personally, I disagree with the speed debuff idea. I see your point, don't get me wrong, but from my experience all that you get from making a frame slower is making it useless because everything is already dead by the time they can catch up with everyone else. I don't think any frame should have a speed lower than 1.

 

1

....

is the speed number an acytuall value like 1m/s or something like, if it isignore m point.

 

so far I know this is comparitive material, like 1 is average and below 1 is below average. (point is clear),

so if every .9 speed gets to one actually you'll say every frame which was 1 is now considered to be .9 and 1.4 is not to be considered 1.3 (or something like that).

 

However I think you say the slower frames get a speed buff, why, not everything is about rushing, and there are other ways of moving quickly, some affected by movement speed other not), but they are still way quicker then running.

 

 

2

this is a thing I have against the vanguard helmet, not rhino as whole.

The supposed slow frame as a balance for his tankyness, is that he has lower than average speed, but slapping a helmet on (rhino prime) he will turn him into the fastest frame. It doesn't add up personally, the prime version of the slowest frame around is the fastest frame in the game (a shame loki prime didn't get a speed buff).

I would still like to see vanguard have his buff decrease to +15% which is still quite neat. (the helmet is just to unbalanced, it gives a very good buff, for a neglible debuff in almost any contents, since if played smart avoiding getting hit is better then be able to take one more or able to kill a enemy in one more shot, since you now have the ability to not kill of only that, but are just as nice to help the other heavy gunner to the grineer concept of a retirements home.)

 

(btw I don't play rhino a whole lot, but I had a arcane vanguard helmet, but since I sometimes choose to not be a hypocrite I gave it away to a friend for free (okay a rare 5 fusion core). and instead bought the arcane thrak.

[georgewesker97]

So far only agree with your visual recommendations. Everything else is NOPE. There is no reason to slow down Rhino as Rhino is not a tank. Take him to something not mercury and see if he is a tank. If you want to slow him down, then I would go about that like this: Speed - 0.5 Shields - 700 (lvl 30) Health - 500 (Lvl 30). Iron Skin - DR 50%, Health 10k. THEN he is a real tank. Btw, inb4 "OMG SO OP AT LOWER LEVELS", it wouldn't be op because you would be slow as F*** and everything would already be dead. This build of Rhino would be kinda useful at higher levels.

 

P.S Also, armour at 500.

Edited July 2, 2014 by georgewesker97

[letir]

Just stop playing on Mercury.

 

IS must be used in really strong loadout (Blind Rage Max+Intensify) to withstand T3 properly, and even this and maxed Roar isn't enough for easygoing Nightmare/T4.

"And don't even think about proper energy spam in this build".

 

-Nyx can beat any Defence/Mobile Defence/Interception in solo.-

-Mag can decimate Corpus batalion with 1 Shield Polarize.-

 

Rhino is OP? Only for newbies.

[Nyxcha]

Iron Skin is a great ability, (was) a great ability, but overtime it's visuals have become outdated, stat indicators lacking, and another extremely useful tool for an already very strong Rhino.

Iron Skin allows Rhino's tanky stats to be further bolstered, and if built right Rhino is one of the fastest frames available as well. Rhino's original setback, at conception, was supposedly his painstakingly slow movement speed. It made sense thematically, and was potentially a very fair setback to Rhino's otherwise well-rounded capabilities. Overtime opportunities to build Rhino for speed slowly negated his slow base movement speed resulting in a frame that specializes in essentially everything, team buffs, damage, crowd control, speed and defense

Regardless of whether or not my proposed changes are the best way to both balance Rhino and bring Iron Skin into the more modern world of Warframe, an Iron Skin update needs to eventually happen regardless. The following proposed changes are to update the ability, not outright buff it.

Stat Wise: Add a damage reduction to Iron Skin that negates a certain % of all incoming damage (10/15/20/25%) to Rhino BEFORE it damages Iron Skin, this effect only lasts while Iron Skin is in effect. NOT scaling with power strength. A nerf to overall health of Iron Skin may be necessary for balance on lower levels.

Add a movement speed debuff to Rhino, slowing him when Iron Skin is active, (25/30/35/40%), this will help reinstate his weakness of being slow.

Allow Iron Skin to be turned on and off, perhaps even returning energy based on the % of Iron Skin that was left before it was deactivated.

Add proper UI that shows the amount of health remaining and the maximum amount of health Iron Skin has as well as a bar that visualizes the health of iron skin.

Visually: Replace the current Iron/Golden Crust, that looks for the most part like a visual glitch, with actual "armor", essentially solid metallic textures that replace the normal textures in significant areas, the shoulders, forearms, waist and calves. The color of this texture could be completely changed based on a specific cosmetic color option that could be added to the customization UI specifically for Rhino. If this new color option is left un-specified the armor would remain Iron/Gold/Rubedo.

UPDATE: Added a significant buff that becomes more and more useful in higher levels.

yes yes and yes.

 

he already has a charge skill if he needs to move fast. so being slow will balance it =D