Why All This Hate?

[Muffle]

So after spending some time on the community, I've come to see that a lot of players tend to hate a couple things. I firmly believe in having the right tool for the job. I don't see why people hate some of my tools but not others. Is there a rising group of hipster tenno that boo at things for being too mainstream? I kid of course, but you can kind of see a pattern. I would love to know why I've been insulted repeatedly, despite having said nothing to offend (in fact I have never opened my mouth against another player) and doing my best to contribute to the team's goals every game. 

 

1. Rhino (especially the prime): Threads about nerfing him are pretty common and "arcane vanguard" gets spited upon mention. Players who like rhino are often called noobs, and the frame is often labeled as a crutch.

 

As a Vanguard Rhino Prime player myself, I don't see why he gets all this hate. He shines especially well in the early game, but all frames are good to some degree in the early game. Late game, his iron skin is destroyed on the first hit, and rarely serves any purpose other than blocking the occasional knockdown. His stomp is decent, but has a casting time and travel time (put together makes a significant delay in disabling enemies compared to, say, chaos), and can't be recast until all frozen enemies are dead or have fallen, leaving you very vulnerable to any units that may have come in. He is far from the jack of all trades people suggest. He can do almost everything in early game very well, and is okay late game with teamwork, but doesn't even compare to what Nyx or Loki can do. 

 

 

2. Coptering: People rarely react favorably when anything regarding coptering is mentioned, be it "how can I do this better" or "can this weapon copter"... 

 

I use the Scoliac as a copter weapon. I also use the Dakra Prime (dervish) as a single-hitting weapon, the Orthos Prime as a crowd-clearing weapon, and the Bo Prime as a channeling-efficient DPS weapon. Some weapons, like the Scoliac, are especially good at granting mobility. I don't see why people hate just this group of weapons so much, especially when they help you reach life support in those crucial moments, or reach downed teammates before they bleed out. Is it logical to ignore a very good option of mobility and let a teammate die just because you don't like the concept? How is it bad for just wanting to last longer in survival and using the tools available to do so? 

 

I am aware that coptering helps facilitate rushing, which I can see some problems with. But why doesn't Wormhole or Tailwind (which both move faster than any copter) get this same hate? Energy costs are basically nonexistent with the right mods anyway. 

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to read. Please feel free to share the reasoning behind your opinions.

[darthdart]

Free will. Different people like/dislike different things.

 

That's the most concise answer you will get btw.

[tveeggad]

I hope I don't have to explain why some people feel like they do about Rhino. 

(Protip: Vanguard on Rhino Prime. Go figure.)

Oh, and let's not talk about how Blind Rage on Rhino breaks the game to a certain degree. Seriously, press 2 and you have 2000+ extra health. When that runs out? Press 2 again. Press 4 and see what survives. Press 3 then 4 again IF something survives. No offense, though. I have nothing against Rhino. I just don't like to play him. I find him boring.

 

And... Coptering. Really? It's an acceleration bug.

Edited June 30, 2014 by ConcretePie

[5stareraser]

Answer : 11 years old jealous kids .

[Muffle]

Free will. Different people like/dislike different things.

 

That's the most concise answer you will get btw.

I am totally fine with that. I would just like to know why they dislike them. 

 

I hope I don't have to explain why some people feel like they do about Rhino. 

(Protip: Vanguard on Rhino Prime. Go figure.)

 

And... Coptering. Really? It's an acceleration bug.

Please do. I don't see why an early-game focused frame is the target of so much hate. An explanation would be very much appreciated. 

Also, is there something wrong with coptering? Gunz: the Duel, another mobility based third person shooter, was known especially for some animation-cancelling exploits that made their game faster-paced (though it took more skill to play). Tribes:Ascend birthed the exploit known as Skiing, which also made the game faster-paced. This feature was implemented in later versions by the developers, who agreed that a faster-paced shooter game would be more fun. Team Fortress 2, a mobility based first person shooter, also did a similar thing, actively encouraging explosion jumping, as a good rocket/sticky jumper was seen as a skillful player and it helped move the pace of the game along. I would list more examples, but I think you get the idea. I don't see why Warframe can't do something similar.

[TenshuYuusha]

I don't see why people hate just this group of weapons so much, especially when they help you reach life support in those crucial moments, or reach downed teammates before they bleed out. Is it logical to ignore a very good option of mobility and let a teammate die just because you don't like the concept? How is it bad for just wanting to last longer in survival and using the tools available to do so? 

 

I am aware that coptering helps facilitate rushing, which I can see some problems with. But why doesn't Wormhole or Tailwind (which both move faster than any copter) get this same hate? Energy costs are basically nonexistent with the right mods anyway. 

Because the game needs a Mobility 2.0 that could give you that high speed without semi-abusing animation and physics flaws while overall looking like a jackass. It's not just Warframe that has this, but other games as well. (including my beloved genre: fighting games :v )

FPS quickscoping is a standard now, but some don't do it because they know it's an exploit. Infinite combos are exploits in animation cancelling, some don't do it because they know it's an exploit.

Edited June 30, 2014 by TenshuYuusha

[Mama_Sasha]

Opinions. Each player has his/her opinion, wich they sadly overglorify to the extreme.

For me, i dont have any frame or weapon that i dislike, since each offers something for each player.

Not that long ago, i went on and aquired the old MK1-Braton and Braton again, just to see how powerful they can get with high end mods, same with Skana (If you done everything and have all Prime weapons, you do weird stuff lol).

 

But yeah, hate is everywhere, not just here but in all games really. 

 

(also to note, i hate choptering or mega rushers).

[Acos]

Kids are out for the summer. 

[Kthal]

And... Coptering. Really? It's an acceleration bug.

 

Since the devs know about it, and have decided not to change it, it really is more of a "feature" than a "bug" at this point...

[Axeroix]

1. Rhino (especially the prime): Threads about nerfing him are pretty common and "arcane vanguard" gets spited upon mention. Players who like rhino are often called noobs, and the frame is often labeled as a crutch.

 

As a Vanguard Rhino Prime player myself, I don't see why he gets all this hate. He shines especially well in the early game, but all frames are good to some degree in the early game. Late game, his iron skin is destroyed on the first hit, and rarely serves any purpose other than blocking the occasional knockdown. His stomp is decent, but has a casting time and travel time (put together makes a significant delay in disabling enemies compared to, say, chaos), and can't be recast until all frozen enemies are dead or have fallen, leaving you very vulnerable to any units that may have come in. He is far from the jack of all trades people suggest. He can do almost everything in early game very well, and is okay late game with teamwork, but doesn't even compare to what Nyx or Loki can do. 

 

This is purely because when you are leveling your weapons in a mobile defense you can meet rhinos who can be a bit (douchey) they tend to go around stomping at everyone minions around them killing all the minions before anyone else can get to the target, in the early game rhino used to have one downside, you can kill all the minions when you are too far behind yet with rhino prime rush and Vanguard he is faster than every other frame in the game Loki being the only one who can keep up with him and he cant keep up with his AOE damage, thats the reason people don't like Rhino Prime Vanguard, its because he disrupts their leveling.

My opinion is Rhino Primes can be completely helpful in the game and help you with what you are doing so they are all innocent until proven guilty.

 

If my spelling is terrible just Curse Dispraxia for me

 

EDIT: and to the topic of Coptering if a rusher is too lazy to use a Volt with max power Strength speed then he hasnt earned the right to rush IMHO

Edited June 30, 2014 by Axeroix

[Muffle]

Because the game needs a Mobility 2.0 that could give you that high speed without semi-abusing animation and physics flaws while overall looking like a jackass. It's not just Warframe that has this, but other games as well. (including my beloved genre: fighting games :v )

Forgive me, I was under the impression that using everything in the fighting games' physics engines to your advantage (including exploits such as animation botching) was the epitome of skill and always seen at competitive play. 

[Stormandreas]

People hate Rhino because he IS a crutch. He is very OP, and has all the best moves with almost no drawbacks whatsoever, especially with the Vanguard helmet.

For coptering, it's because people rush through levels using it, then die and complain people arn't there to revive them. Also, it looks absolutely awful to see in the middle of a mission.

[winters.prime]

Dont know about you but a really dont mind having a rhino/rhino prime along for ANY mission, some people just cant be pleased. The value that a well modded rhino adds to a squad is just too damn high. Rhino might be OP depending who you ask but its just because he is the first prime to have a actual stat bonus. People will get over it.

[TenshuYuusha]

Forgive me, I was under the impression that using everything in the fighting games' physics engines to your advantage (including exploits such as animation botching) was the epitome of skill and always seen at competitive play. 

Mmm nope, it really isn't. If you mean FADC in something like SFIV, I believe that was intentional. But things like Dustloop in Guilty Gear or Moriya's teleport glitch in Last Blade? Yeahno. I'm always one to say "If you're really skilled at a fighting game, you don't need to keep the other guy helpless the entire match with animation exploits, you'd be skilled enough, as you claim, to finish your sequence, let them get back up and bait and catch them into a new one".

As for Rhino/Rhino Prime, eh he's not invincible, but he does have more advantages than disadvantages, and he surely didn't get as much hate as Nova did with her original M Prime, or an Ember built around WoF.

Edited June 30, 2014 by TenshuYuusha

[-Ropefish-]

i use the thrak helmet with a hobbled key, so i have a drawback and just clean up the leftovers

 

cause im a nice person >_>

[Nemo1776]

Things hate in this game is 1batton clear the map skills like nova because i have nothing to do,
if you play necros and you don't spam 3,3,3,3,3,3,3 the other people say you are nub and you don't know how to play..... i am not bot to spam 1 adility all the time...
nyx players how spam absorb.... i have forma 4-6 times my weapon so i can see big numbers and not for someone with Nyx can spam absorb all the time...
and the list go on,for this reason 90% i play solo

[Shafilp]

just a hater who don't like iron skin , what about MP nova can made outnumber damage , slow @$$ enemies? Nyx Absorb immortal frame not get any damage if you have energy? Frost Avalanche High damage , High range like rhino stomp | Snow globe 5sec invul full efficiency strength and armor you can spam every times you want that make OP more than iron skin but no one care ?

 

well i'm not rhino player just use him for farming orokin cell (ruk) neural sensors (alad v)

Edited June 30, 2014 by Shafilp

[Valfunde]

Coptering is not a bug, it is now part of the game's identity. It was not expected but cannot be remove, that would kill the game. Just like rocket jumping in other well-known games.

And you talk about rhino is high level content, where rarely see him. You mostly see rhino on easy/medium content, where it is pretty much how

ConcretePie says.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

I came into this thread expecting a call for nerfs on the stalker dropping too much

[TheErebus.]

To me, coptering is nothing. I don't care for it UNTIL someone says that "This weapon needs coptering". No weapon needs coptering. Stick with your dual zorens and dual ichors.

As for rhino, probably because tanks are always shunned by gaming communities and seeing as how Rhino is the tank of warframe. He will get hated by those who claim themselves to be "vets"

[TenshuYuusha]

 

Coptering is not a bug, it is now part of the game's identity. It was not expected but cannot be remove, that would kill the game. Just like rocket jumping in other well-known games.

 

"Shield Bunker Canceling: More akin to a glitch than an actual feature, Shield Bunker Canceling (known as Baka Cancel in Japan and Bara Cancel in the US) is a powerful technique where a player, while blocking an attack, can counter-attack with a Shield Bunker, but cancels the beginning animation into an attack of their choice. This is typically an EX Attack with invincibility properties. This can drastically affect how one attacks an opponent. There are several methods to counter this technique, but it remains a feature of high-level play in Melty Blood. As proof that this accidental technique was accepted by the game's designers, this technique was altered to incur an additional 50% Magic Circuit cost to balance out its effectiveness in Version B. As of Melty Blood Actress Again the "Bara Cancel" technique is no longer possible."

It would possibly kill the game later, but for the wrong reasons. Time affects mentality. If DE decided to fix coptering in this update, you can expect hundreds of threads talking about them killing the game, blah blah blah. But if it was nipped in the bud a short time after it was revealed, my guess is a time after Dual Zoren's release, you'd just see people react mildly about it. It's an addage a friend of a friend, who's a computer programmer said: "People will love you for your work, until you start fixing glitches" lol.

The quote above is relevant due to a glitch being accepted at first because it brought players. Fixed later my guess is because the developer decided "this wasn't meant to be here, it's gone now" and the fanbase for that game (mostly the "pro"s) went apeS#&$ about it for bs reasons like "now the game doesn't play the same at all like the older game" even though someone revealed the game can be played exactly the same due to a Style Select, just without the aforementioned exploit. It could be done, but by that point you'd be risking business in favor of integrity.

Edited June 30, 2014 by TenshuYuusha

[darthdart]

I enjoy using Rhino without Stomp equipped.

 

On the rare occasion I do use him that is. That rubedo skin made me wanna use him for a few missions.

 

Rhino Charge is underrated imo.

 

Word of advice. If you ever see a Rhino using Roar, he's probably okay and not a #$&(%, or he is new. One or the other.

 

But I've honestly only ran into maybe 4 Rhino players who were worth caring about. None of them were Rhino Prime. Every Rhino Prime I've ever played with is always a tunnel vision neanderthal who wouldn't revive you if your bleeding corpse fell directly into his mouth.

 

As for the hating of the rushing rhino, they forget not everyone has for lack of a better term, super armor as well as a hefty shield usually. It's really REALLY easy to completely ignore rooms filled to the brim with hordes of enemies, because Rhino can shrug it off rather easily. Not all frames can do that so they have to think a tiny bit when running through dangerous territory. And they almost never run back to save you if you do go down.

 

I never rely on two types of players. Loki players and Rhino Prime players. I have yet to see a decent teamwork oriented loki or rhino prime. All of them have been asshats.

[MerelyARumor]

I love coptering, its like the reason Pure melee works in this game, quicker you get to the enemy shooting you, the better , orthos p for life

 

I also dont understand why people hate rhino...iron skin doesnt make you invincible

 

you know what does make you invincible? Valkyrs 1 minute God mode

know what else makes you invincible?  Ash's teleport around the entire room for 25 energy killing everything in God mode button

 

dont see hate for them,but i see BUFF threads for those frames once in awhile 

 

 

maybe our community is just stupid lol

[(PSN)youngn0121]

I honestly cant understand the reason behind hating coptering. IF you dont like it, dont use it and it isnt game breaking in any aspect

[TenshuYuusha]

Things hate in this game is 1batton clear the map skills like nova because i have nothing to do,

if you play necros and you don't spam 3,3,3,3,3,3,3 the other people say you are nub and you don't know how to play..... i am not bot to spam 1 adility all the time...

nyx players how spam absorb.... i have forma 4-6 times my weapon so i can see big numbers and not for someone with Nyx can spam absorb all the time...

and the list go on,for this reason 90% i play solo

Some people can go overboard, yes. I use Absorb as Nyx as well but mostly as a panic button. Once the shield goes down, Absorb is sent up if I didn't feel like using Chaos. Most of the 4s, except Ember and Nova, I use as a panic button. But hey, it's what happens when you give a game Morrowind-type freedom and try to make it an online game, lol.